Which horde city should the Alliance take since Ally has lost 2, Horde 1

[ravenmoon]

For once? Alliance is always the losing side in the faction conflict. It's not about mirroring everything, it's about focusing equally on both sides and giving incentives to play Alliance. The Horde would've never accepted it if the roles were reversed and you were shafted every time.

But I understand it feels good to be on the "winning" side of things all the time.

Exactly, if you crash one race, okay that is the story, raise them up again later. No one wants the same, but everyone wants progression, but it is rubbish if only one side gets progression or one race only focused on.

Who would mind the human major role if the other races in the alliance had meaningful and good roles fitting their description rather than humans doing everything for all of them.

Who would mind the night elves been kicked the shift out , losing all their benefits, if later on they came back even stronger gaining in as wonderful ways as they lost it, things like their immortality and well of power. Lost their beautiful home, gained an even more beautiful one in an equally wonderful as their loss was tragic.

You have upswing and down swings, this unacceptable, but currently if you are alliance, especially night elf it is constant downs, been going on since wc3, just list their losses, losing immortality in wc3, losing their returned arcane civilization to horde, losing their home in BfA, half their powers Well of Eternity, Elune always AWOL because they must lose.

Horde always having the upper hand, even with overpowered humans in the mix, constantly the horde is constantly shown getting the better win, the less humiliating defeat. The greater number and the more badass

Victories should be in constant ups and downs, and this happens over time, but your race's need to be able to be shown well in these occurrences whether they win or lose. Look how rubbish alliance races esp nightnelves and non humans look when they come up against ooh dangerous horde.

This is the problem. SWTOR had the Empire at one stage nearly completely lost, however not once did they feel anything but dangerous and threatening, and the republic felt equally competent and effective, despite at one point nearly having total victory.

Both sides had equal focus, no one looked like chums, but ups and downs happened

[A Dark Knight]

This is not even counting the 3 horde allied races, that get fancy extravagant homes, while half the alliance ones are displaced sharing with allies.

As usual, the horde players are going to swarm this thread telling you how the horde has lost just as much.

Off course they consider destroying Theramore completely, wiping out night elves in Ashenvale, Darkshore, then burning Teldrassil and Darnassus with only a few survivors evacuated and gaining 10 formerly night elf dominant zones and 1 in Dustswallow Marsh formerly seat of Alliance in eastern Kalimdor, and this somehow equal to a fully evacuated undercity lost to the horde, but really destroyed by the horde.

So the horde effectively destroyed 2 alliance cities and one horde city, though we count Lordaeron as now in Alliance control.

The alliance need to capture a horde city, and this time it is not one the horde let them have graciously, they need to outright win it, and it needs to be a horde city - not a neutral one, this faction bias has gone too far. 12 years since TBC put the horde first every time, which one should it be? Oh yeh, and this time, let another alliance race than humans be the star of the show.

Which horde city should it be?
And this time, no letting the horde have it like with Orgrimmar, it becomes alliance for good.

• Silvermoon? - blood elves kicked out complete taking over EK, high elves and void elves lead the alliance forces, not humans, they get home back.
• Suramar? - nightborne assimilated, those who refuse kicked out - they can go live with blood elves or in new Kalimdor territories, orchestrated by the night elves, who lead the alliance fully to victory - night elves get a home back.

Oh, in blizzards great display of non-bias, not only do the horde have to be one city up, they have to have both elven cities, the home of the high elves and void elves as well as the only pristine pre-sundering night elf city, now also the only night elven city. But no that is not favouritism.

• Zul'dazar - just to spite the trolls, since it's okay for trolls to get a city but not gnomes
  
• Kezan - Gnomes move in, since we will see Bilgewater Harbour City or Undermine City before we ever see the gnomes in Gnomeragan.
  

It's also okay that 3 of the 4 new horde allied races have great homes and cities, why only 1 out of the 4 Alliance ones do, this is perfectly balanced to some. Horde favoritism? where ?

• Other - some insignificant hole like Stonard, cos I'm happy the horde has not only both night and high elven cities, but it is fine for alliance races to be homeless, and I want the horde to get everything, or I will write and angry post and blizzard will see it and make it happen because "the community" got angry with it, never mind the thousands of angry alliance tweets, reddits, videos, topics etc, those mysteriosuly never made the feedback tray. Or somehow must have accidentally gotten deleted.

It is simple the horde have to lose either Silvermoon, Suramar or Zuldazar, and since there is only one troll city and no trolls in the alliance, I say it has to be one elven city, no way the horde needs two, while both alliance elves are cityless in wastelands or other racial cities.

The real choice is really Suramar or Silvermoon on

u aint getting shit. saltboy

[ravenmoon]

Like I said, what you are describing is a terrible snooze fest. If you know you are going to gain the same amount of victories every time you lose something, there is no emotions in it. There is no tension.

Not saying the Alliance should never be on top, btw. I would like the Alliance to do some more horde crushing, whenever it fits the story.

I am saying that demanding a mirrored storyline to the point where every city needs to be matched with a city, every won battle must be matched with a won battle, limits Blizzard unecessarily AND htakes the exitment away for us, because we will know what will happen next anyways.

Nonsense. No one likes constantly being beaten, then kicked out you endure such things in the hope that you will get some victories, you will get a new home.

What you want is a depressing fest for one side only so things can continue to be "interesting" for you, which translates as roflstomp to endless victories over your enemies, while they stay down, and you expect us to cheer and go "good move", "now the story is interesting"?, we totally want to keep playing something where only one outcome happens, Horde wins, Horde gains, Horde reigns

[Aeula]

Nonsense. No one likes constantly being beaten, then kicked out you endure such things in the hope that you will get some victories, you will get a new home.

What you want is a depressing fest for one side only so things can continue to be "interesting" for you, which translates as roflstomp to endless victories over your enemies, while they stay down, and you expect us to cheer and go "good move", "now the story is interesting"?, we totally want to keep playing something where only one outcome happens, Horde wins, Horde gains, Horde reigns

It's compensation for our leaders being killed and our warchief being made evil every other expansion. You'll win the war in the end anyway.

[Shibito]

Ah then you can get your leaders killed first so we can even it out first

[Ripsnarl]

If we being honest then yes Alliance lost much more cities and settlements. In both counts - to the Horde and to the common bad guys. Teldrassil/Undercity switch wasn't fair - both cities were destroyed by Horde Warchief. Overall Alliance portrayed as losers in BFA - they lost Teldrassil, Lordaeron was denied to them by Sylvanas, their capital (Stormwind) is infiltrated by small Horde team and set to fire, their fleet was wiped by ridiculous Zandalar dinosaur, Boralus was set on fire too and raided by small Horde team just like SW, Brennadam raided by Horde... Do I need to continue?

Well because of this and how Horde gets the more/better attention at start of expansion (story quests mounts etc) I believe things will drastically change in second act - Alliance will start getting wins and even probably will win this war. As for OP I will choose Silvermoon.

Blizzard will never allow Alliance raid Ogrimmar again, "peaceful" Taurens are too evil choice for noble Alliance. Silvermoon will be the most logical choice from strategical point of view, it will finally add Quel'Thalas into EK map (if Blizzard ever do it BFA is best opportunity - Azuremyst don't need its because its island) and its good opportunity to give Alliance some morally grey actions. Something like Alleria and Void Elves corrupting Sunwell and doing basically Teldrassil 2.0.

Another good choice would be Suramar especially if NELF will be the one to lead the assault. But Blizzard done with Broken Isles I guess.

[Zelk]

Stop complaining that things aren't fair and let them write an actual story with consequences. Might as well shut the game down if everything has to be equal at all times.

[Ripsnarl]

It's compensation for our leaders being killed and our warchief being made evil every other expansion. You'll win the war in the end anyway.

Jesus Christ Garrosh was only one Warchief to be turned evil and that got loot pinata treatment. You act like WoW players raid your Warchiefs every expansion. Stop it.

[ravenmoon]

It's compensation for our leaders being killed and our warchief being made evil every other expansion. You'll win the war in the end anyway.

That is the hope because getting so much crap only works out well if there is an upside, but so far upside hasn't come, so that is debatable.

But if we do win, you will eventually pull of a victory at some might, otherwise game over. It then becomes how and in what way the victory happens, if it is some lame as victory after all that crap, if it is no good stuff after all that bad stuff, then the victory is going to feel shitty and everyone just feels down.

They gotta give something's for alliance players, especially night elves to get excited about. Some races are way behind others, even though the factions are very close with the horde constantly a little in front.

So it is two fold, alliance getting in front for a change, and races like nightnelves, instead of humans getting some exciting developments and improvements we can cheer about and look forward too.

[owbu]

Nonsense. No one likes constantly being beaten, then kicked out you endure such things in the hope that you will get some victories, you will get a new home.

What you want is a depressing fest for one side only so things can continue to be "interesting" for you, which translates as roflstomp to endless victories over your enemies, while they stay down, and you expect us to cheer and go "good move", "now the story is interesting"?, we totally want to keep playing something where only one outcome happens, Horde wins, Horde gains, Horde reigns

Like I said, I don't oppose the Alliance also crushing the Horde without compensation. I just don't want mirrored story telling. City for a city and so on. I want to not know what's going to happen. If the Horde always wins, its no more interesting than when the Horde and Alliance always win by the same amount.

BfA can end in all the Horde cities burned down or some Horde cities burned down or non of them. Just don't make it "the exact same amount of cities they burned down, because balance demands it".

[Deleted]

Jesus Christ Garrosh was only one Warchief to be turned evil and that got loot pinata treatment. You act like WoW players raid your Warchiefs every expansion. Stop it.

Horde has two dead chiefs (Garrosh and Vol'Jin) and two chiefs turned villian (Garrosh and Sylvanas), nobody said anything about loot pinatas. But if you will, yes Horde also had a chief that turned into a loot pinata for both sides (Garrosh, again..)

Let's face it Horde leadership is one big rollercoaster, one that's also stuck to run forever so it appears.

- - - Updated - - -

BfA can end in all the Horde cities burned down or some Horde cities burned down or non of them. Just don't make it "the exact same amount of cities they burned down, because balance demands it".

This a thousand times, when done with proper reasoning and story (yes I know I'm asking alot from Blizzard) loosing pretty much all your ground sounds hella interesting. just as long as it isn't completely mirrored, because that is cheap.

[Aeula]

Jesus Christ Garrosh was only one Warchief to be turned evil and that got loot pinata treatment. You act like WoW players raid your Warchiefs every expansion. Stop it.

And now Sylvanas too. So you stop it.

That is the hope because getting so much crap only works out well if there is an upside, but so far upside hasn't come, so that is debatable.

But if we do win, you will eventually pull of a victory at some might, otherwise game over. It then becomes how and in what way the victory happens, if it is some lame as victory after all that crap, if it is no good stuff after all that bad stuff, then the victory is going to feel shitty and everyone just feels down.

They gotta give something's for alliance players, especially night elves to get excited about. Some races are way behind others, even though the factions are very close with the horde constantly a little in front.

So it is two fold, alliance getting in front for a change, and races like nightnelves, instead of humans getting some exciting developments and improvements we can cheer about and look forward too.

So basically. "Waaah, we lost our elven city, why don't they get to lose theirrrrsss! ". That's what this thread is about then.

[ravenmoon]

If we being honest then yes Alliance lost much more cities and settlements. In both counts - to the Horde and to the common bad guys. Teldrassil/Undercity switch wasn't fair - both cities were destroyed by Horde Warchief. Overall Alliance portrayed as losers in BFA - they lost Teldrassil, Lordaeron was denied to them by Sylvanas, their capital (Stormwind) is infiltrated by small Horde team and set to fire, their fleet was wiped by ridiculous Zandalar dinosaur, Boralus was set on fire too and raided by small Horde team just like SW, Brennadam raided by Horde... Do I need to continue?

Well because of this and how Horde gets the more/better attention at start of expansion (story quests mounts etc) I believe things will drastically change in second act - Alliance will start getting wins and even probably will win this war. As for OP I will choose Silvermoon.

Blizzard will never allow Alliance raid Ogrimmar again, "peaceful" Taurens are too evil choice for noble Alliance. Silvermoon will be the most logical choice from strategical point of view, it will finally add Quel'Thalas into EK map (if Blizzard ever do it BFA is best opportunity - Azuremyst don't need its because its island) and its good opportunity to give Alliance some morally grey actions. Something like Alleria and Void Elves corrupting Sunwell and doing basically Teldrassil 2.0.

Another good choice would be Suramar especially if NELF will be the one to lead the assault. But Blizzard done with Broken Isles I guess.

This is the hope.

Some people think I don't like the turn of events so far and I am complaining about it, I am not, it is okay to show great loss, shifts, movements etc, it does make the story interesting, the problem I have is leaving it there. I'm okay if you write a great moving story of how the night elves lost their homeland, their immortality, their power, but also don't leave them back there, only showing interedt to take more from themmor kill them, write a great story where they get a beautiful new home, find a way to enhance themselves again and score some major victories. I'm fine with losing Kalimdor home, if an a great new home is found, and I don't consider plague fest undead ruin to be a great new home, I'd rather see them home in Broken isles taking over Suramar and rebuilding their ruins than that outcome. Suramar would be a good place to display some night elf victory and cleverness, they are not monsters so they aren't going to slaughter the nightborne, what if they win some over to their side after their great loss, Sylvanas' actions are bound to not sit well with some of them, maybe those who were born kaldorei, and still hold that as sacred despite how things worked out for them in the open world, broken and unable to use magic to protect the world. Perhaps when more of the nightborne learn the true facts of why the kaldorei are in this state, they are actually in admiration of their sacrifice and nobility, as every nightborne born kaldorei would know exactly how much the arcane meant to every night elf, to give it up to protect the world is an enormous sacrifice those who didn't live in pre-sundering times like you get nightborne born under the shield or blood elves would not get. So maybe the older ones side with the night elves, but others choose to oppose them and start hunting them trying to drive them out, but instead of the kaldorei losing this time, they rally, and defeat their opposers and their blood elf allies, and do it with skill, getting a good victory beating them in every area, the nightborne who oppose them flee in exile, while those who helped them live with them in the city that really belongs to both. Another inte Selby emotional story, not one filled with hate, but one that now leads to a victory rather than massacre. Great drama but good result this time.

This is just an example of how it could go down, broken isles is easier than building a new night elf city in EK as it already has all the things the night elves need, home for highborne, home for druids, a capital in Suramar, temples for priests, it's already there, just use that instead.

Alternatively it could be Silvermoon that is won, but the elves should star here rather than humans, blizzard must choose whether they'd rather have the horde nightborne, an allied race exiled from Suramar or a full horde race ejected from Silvermoon.

They have options, depending on how they choose to go. The exiled nightborne could replicate the nighthold part of the city in their new location, the exiled blood elves could be written to somehow magically move the sunwell, or maybe it stays there, they still linked to it, just that it is now in their kin on the other factions hand.

Knowing blizzard, the easier option is to displace the nightborne, the blood elves don't have a blood elf y zone anywhere else if they lose this, it would either be lots of work to create one or give them a shitty situation camping in orgrimmar or t Azshara,, whereas the void elves and high elves are so minor, the former arent playable and as such have a place in dàlaran, while the latter fit in quite well with the night elves in Suramar being pruple n all. the night elves though they lost Kalimdor, did have the broken isles with better versions of everything there, thr nightborne can afford to be dispalced to Quel'thalas, especially if Ghostlands houses them they could even build a replica of the nighthold there.

- - - Updated - - -

Horde has two dead chiefs (Garrosh and Vol'Jin) and two chiefs turned villian (Garrosh and Sylvanas), nobody said anything about loot pinatas. But if you will, yes Horde also had a chief that turned into a loot pinata for both sides (Garrosh, again..)

Let's face it Horde leadership is one big rollercoaster, one that's also stuck to run forever so it appears.

- - - Updated - - -



This a thousand times, when done with proper reasoning and story (yes I know I'm asking alot from Blizzard) loosing pretty much all your ground sounds hella interesting. just as long as it isn't completely mirrored, because that is cheap.

No one is complaining about drama happening, the horde replaces 2 Warchief, but it is the horde that stars in the story and they get another Warchief back and continue to star.

The alliance and night elves lose all that stuff and get NOTHING back. They should get something

[reemi]

why do it always need to be fair...

Horde can have 10 and Alliance 2 I won't care.

[Dagoth Ur]

None. That's the price you pay for basking in guaranteed moral highground and victim complex. Horde on the other hand gets to raze cities and do cool stuff.

[Deleted]

ahahahahahaahahahahahha

I knew this was just a High Elf whine thread
Common sense. BC zones out of phase with the rest of the map.

This is such a fucking massive reach. A point in EK is vital for Kalimdor? Seriously?

Also, no. Sylvanas attacked Teldrassil so the Alliance would fracture. This will not have the same effect. The Blood Elves will never go Alliance, no matter how much you whine for it.

Common sense can be used to justify anything you want. It does not equal the truth. What is common sense to you, isn't for someone else.

As for the reach. /shrugs I think you are the one reaching really hard to deny it. Would you go fight a war in 2 fronts, or in 1 front? From the guy that preaches common sense that is pretty hilarious.
Taking out Silvermoon would have as much impact in the horde as Teldrassil had in the alliance. Actually more, as it will make Sylvanas relive the pains of her first death. Also, you can keep your stinky elves. I don't give a damn about them. I will have my majectic void elves redecorate Silvermoon for the better.

Anyways, i know i just touched your weak spot when i made that statement. I know you feel affronted because it would be impactful and it has nothing to so with any common sense. I don't care. Give it a rest. Stop being so vulnerable.

[Ripsnarl]

None. That's the price you pay for basking in guaranteed moral highground and victim complex. Horde on the other hand gets to raze cities and do cool stuff.

So far the most vocal victims on forums are Horde players who screams about their assumption Sylvanas gets Garrosh 2.0 treatment.

And now Sylvanas too. So you stop it.

Can I get link that proves Sylvanas becomes raid boss? You can't because its your assumption.

Horde has two dead chiefs (Garrosh and Vol'Jin) and two chiefs turned villian (Garrosh and Sylvanas), nobody said anything about loot pinatas. But if you will, yes Horde also had a chief that turned into a loot pinata for both sides (Garrosh, again..)

Let's face it Horde leadership is one big rollercoaster, one that's also stuck to run forever so it appears.

Alliance also lost leaders. Varian, Bolvar, Magni. Fandal and Lady Preston bite villain role and later become raid bosses. As for Sylvanas - do you already played whole BFA story and know how its ends? No you don't.

[OreoLover]

As usual, the horde players are going to swarm this thread telling you how the horde has lost just as much.

It is simple the horde have to lose either Silvermoon, Suramar or Zuldazar, and since there is only one troll city and no trolls in the alliance, I say it has to be one elven city, no way the horde needs two, while both alliance elves are cityless in wastelands or other racial cities.

The real choice is really Suramar or Silvermoon

Dang, OP, your bias is strong. Do you remember the awesome Draenei WoD area, where Horde got chilly tents?

Since we're decimating capitals, let's also rebuild:

Alliance
- Night Elves and Void Elves settle with Worgen in a refreshed Gilneas
- Gnomes get an updated New Tinkertown/Gnomeregan
- Refugees (Sneks?) live atop Shadowforge City, with Dark Iron
Horde
- Undead and Mag'har rebuild in Theramore
- Goblins expand Bilgewater Harbor + Pleasure Palace, with Foxy new citizens
- Trolls get a refreshed Echo Isles, with more Blood Magic presence
Travel
- Horde ships patrol: Theramore > Echo Isles > Orgrimmar Harbor
- Zeppelins: Thunder Bluff > Orgrimmar > Bilgewater Harbor
- Deeprun Tram: Stormwind > Shadowforge City > Ironforge
- Alliance ships patrol: Stormwind > New Tinkertown > Gilneas



EDIT: I'd like to centralize the factions, in this way.

[shade3891]

Didn't Alleria swear that she will retake Silvermoon for the Alliance? But i rather have Gilneas City restored.

[McFuu]

Horde lost Blackrock Mountain, dem history lessons doe.