'Gay wedding cake ' baker claim persecution...again

[Endus]

Are you assuming that every person who doesn't necessarily agree with homosexuality are hateful bigots?

Yes, being a homophobe is bigotry. This is like declaring that you're not a racist, you just don't like black people.

[Jotunhammer]

The believe homosexuality is sinful is, indeed, not in and of itself bigotry. Just as the belief that drinking alcohol is sinful. But if you start discriminating against alcoholics, you can no longer say you're just following your faith and that you should be protected.

I have no desire to make Christians accept or love homosexuals. Nor would I punish them simply for their hatred. What I will not accept is actively harm or marginalize homosexuals. So don't start arguing about thought police. I've said and suggested nothing of the sort.

Except one thing.... according to the bible homosexuality is a sin, while alcoholism is never mentioned at all being a sin in the bible.
so your arguments falls.

Alcoholism, while being wrong, is not actually against GOD, though guidelines of the churches etc speaks of being moderate
or abstain from alcohol unless in medical purposes it does not go against the laws of GOD.

Homosexuality is directly going against the christian GOD, hence the person standing for his faith in the christian GOD
actually has a valid standpoint in saying he can not be forced to act against his own belief.

But tolerance is asked for by the community and tolerance should then be given both ways, neither should be forced
to live a life they did not chose, so it is all or nothing, either everyone be accepting and tolerate or we go back to the
old ways where homosexuality is a crime and not accepted at all.

I would rather chose to be tolerant and accept my fellow man as is and let him/her have their own faith as long
as they do not attempt to cram their beliefs on me or try to change the religion to fit their ideas.

Now some will say that christianity is wrong etc and religion is wrong etc, thats not the point of this, it is the point
that either we all accept what is legal and what we can tolerate and be patient with eachother, or we stop pretending
that all the homosexual etc want is equal rights.

[Tonkaden]

I mean you sound like a hateful bigot, and you're saying hateful bigot things, but you don't want to be branded a hateful bigot.

That's like killing a random person and saying "I'm not a murderer"

How in the WORLD have I been hateful? Because I said a guy should have the right to bake a cake or not bake a cake for whoever they want?

Please enlighten me how I've been hateful bro.

[Themius]

It's a pink cake with blue icing. He's fine with making that. He's just not fine selling it to a transgender person.

People keep acting like there's some serious art, here. It's a simple cake. He wasn't asked to put any decorations on it he found objectionable. He's just a bigot.



The idea that any of this is "forcing" anyone to do business with anyone else is a nonsense argument. It's like complaining that you're "forced" to not stab people who annoy you. If he doesn't want to serve the public, he's free to not run a public accommodation. If he chooses to do so, he's beholden to the laws that regulate such trade. That's all this is.

He has a rather simple solution.

Make his bakery a Christian club bakehouse then it is private, until then he is serving the public.

[szechuan]

Homosexuality is directly going against the christian GOD, hence the person standing for his faith in the christian GOD
actually has a valid standpoint in saying he can not be forced to act against his own belief.

What if your Religion had a Valid Standpoint that Racism was okay?

[Dextroden]

Yes, being a homophobe is bigotry. This is like declaring that you're not a racist, you just don't like black people.

Too bad it wasn't white people. That"s not racist or bigoted at all judging by the Sarah Jeong thread.

[Tonkaden]

Yes, being a homophobe is bigotry. This is like declaring that you're not a racist, you just don't like black people.

Do you even know what a bigot is? Simply disliking something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't hate nor am I intolerant of homosexuals or any race lol. This is the thing and I said it a few pages back. If you aren't 110% on the "YAY FOR GAY!" train, you are called a bigot. Most people throw around bigot without even understanding the word.

[szechuan]

Simply disliking something doesn't make you a bigot.

Disliking something is not the same as Discrimination.

[Themius]

I am okay with someone that owns a private business that doesn't agree with something to refuse service. Period.

Well that's just stupid, what do you want the 1940s-1960s back? Are you also white?

You say private business, but those private businesses rely on public land and they're not exactly private clubs they're public accommodations giving the public a service.

[Endus]

Do you even know what a bigot is? Simply disliking something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't hate nor am I intolerant of homosexuals or any race lol. This is the thing and I said it a few pages back. If you aren't 110% on the "YAY FOR GAY!" train, you are called a bigot. Most people throw around bigot without even understanding the word.

You're literally describing yourself being intolerant of gay people. That's homophobia. Yes, anything other than full acceptance qualifies. You know enough to know that being intolerant is "bad", but you lack the self-awareness to realize that you're being intolerant.

Which isn't a defense. It's just a blind refusal to accept responsibility for your own poor behaviour.

[IIamaKing]

he does have some insanely good fudge.

like, insanely good.

So he, himself, is a fudge packer....interesting.

[Themius]

Except one thing.... according to the bible homosexuality is a sin, while alcoholism is never mentioned at all being a sin in the bible.
so your arguments falls.

Alcoholism, while being wrong, is not actually against GOD, though guidelines of the churches etc speaks of being moderate
or abstain from alcohol unless in medical purposes it does not go against the laws of GOD.

Homosexuality is directly going against the christian GOD, hence the person standing for his faith in the christian GOD
actually has a valid standpoint in saying he can not be forced to act against his own belief.

But tolerance is asked for by the community and tolerance should then be given both ways, neither should be forced
to live a life they did not chose, so it is all or nothing, either everyone be accepting and tolerate or we go back to the
old ways where homosexuality is a crime and not accepted at all.

I would rather chose to be tolerant and accept my fellow man as is and let him/her have their own faith as long
as they do not attempt to cram their beliefs on me or try to change the religion to fit their ideas.

Now some will say that christianity is wrong etc and religion is wrong etc, thats not the point of this, it is the point
that either we all accept what is legal and what we can tolerate and be patient with eachother, or we stop pretending
that all the homosexual etc want is equal rights.

Divorce is a sin, he makes cakes for divorced people.


Discrimination against anyone using the name of the lord is also a sin punishable by death

Why do christians convienitly like to leave out the discrimination in the name of the lord is a sin part? What the fuck happened to Jesus love the sinner and all that shit?

[Independent voter]

“The neutral and respectful consideration to which Phillips was entitled was compromised here,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote, adding that the commission’s decision that the baker violated the state’s anti-discrimination law must be set aside.

But Kennedy acknowledged that the decision was more of a start than a conclusion to the court’s consideration of the rights of those with religious objections to same-sex marriage and the rights of gay people, who “cannot be treated as social outcasts or as inferior in dignity and worth.”

Future cases that raise those issues “must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market,” he wrote.


Is what Supreme Court Justice Kennedy said when they ruled against the gays and their wedding cake.

Are we passed the point of "without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs"?

[Themius]

Do you even know what a bigot is? Simply disliking something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't hate nor am I intolerant of homosexuals or any race lol. This is the thing and I said it a few pages back. If you aren't 110% on the "YAY FOR GAY!" train, you are called a bigot. Most people throw around bigot without even understanding the word.

"Gay people disgust me, I don't believe in being gay" Things bigots say.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Divorce is a sin, he makes cakes for divorced people.


Discrimination against anyone using the name of the lord is also a sin punishable by death

Why do christians convienitly like to leave out the discrimination in the name of the lord is a sin part? What the fuck happened to Jesus love the sinner and all that shit?

Modern American Protestantism is either massive cherry picking or basically "God hates fags and I get to commit all the other sins without worry", take your pick.

I get the feeling that most of the right wing just claims religious freedom because they feel icky about gays. A large portion of them don't even go to church any more, and when they do, they just listen to the pretty music, tune out the rest, and think about what kind of kinky anal sex they're going to have with their 200 pound wife.

[Tonkaden]

I don't find straight acts disgusting... I don't care. You are a homophobic person... that's all and then you bitch as if you're the victim because people call you a bigot. Well stop acting like one?

You are delusional is the point here. Note the sky example.

You find gay acts disgusting... okay.. do they make you angry inside because if they do... maybe go see a therapist while you struggle about your sexuality.

Some gays do just like some straight people do. Someone asked why I don't like homosexuality. Thats it. I don't dislike homosexuals. Im all for it. Date who you want , when you want, how you want. Fuck I care for? lol. Thats your life.

I love how you constantly devolve into insults. Like I said. The gay community is probably one of the most hateful communities out there and you just keep on proving my point. You aren't able to have a decent discussion without slinging insults around.

[Dextroden]

"Gay people disgust me, I don't believe in being gay" Things bigots say.

"Racism against whites doesn't matter"Things bigots say

[Maudib]

I fail to see how forcing a Muslim to eat pork is the same as paying a bakery to make you a cake that has a specific meaning behind it, but okay.

Which is exactly why this is a thing to begin with. People fail to recognize a Christian's right to religion while bending over backwards to defend any other religious practice. You cannot pick and choose which ones you will allow them to freely follow and which you will not.

[Endus]

Is what Supreme Court Justice Kennedy said when they ruled against the gays and their wedding cake.

Are we passed the point of "without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs"?

Nope. Just means the Human Rights Commission needs to do a good-faith analysis of his argument before dismissing it as a reasonable defense this time around. The issue wasn't their conclusion, but just that they didn't give his claim due consideration before ruling against it.

It's basically procedural, like if a police officer forgot to Mirandize a suspect before interrogation. That renders the interrogation inadmissible. It does not mean that they can't arrest the same guy later, Mirandize him properly, and interrogate him again and have it stick that time.

[Nurasu]

“The neutral and respectful consideration to which Phillips was entitled was compromised here,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote, adding that the commission’s decision that the baker violated the state’s anti-discrimination law must be set aside.

But Kennedy acknowledged that the decision was more of a start than a conclusion to the court’s consideration of the rights of those with religious objections to same-sex marriage and the rights of gay people, who “cannot be treated as social outcasts or as inferior in dignity and worth.”

Future cases that raise those issues “must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market,” he wrote.


Is what Supreme Court Justice Kennedy said when they ruled against the gays and their wedding cake.

Are we passed the point of "without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs"?

I love how you had to gloss over the heart of his message, which is decidedly pro-gay rights, to reach that one snippet. He practically said right there he will rule in favor of the gays getting their cake so long as the owner is treated fairly during the process, which I agree he should be.