The Horde is split in half

[Aurabolt]

there is actually a third party, and i would venture to say, close to a majority, who keep in mind it's a freaking game, wanna see where this shit goes, and could give a shit about whether sylvanas is evil or not, justified or not, etc

...Correct.

I am one such person.

[Wildberry]

The question is, does it really matter where do they come from? They are brown orcs would be awesome either way, and you have to admit the whole lightforged zealotry story they get is compelling af

The Lightforged Zealotry story is boring and incredibly dumb. The only saving grace is that it irritates some of the Lightforged RPers here.

More importantly, it does matter where they come from. Orcs have a serious problem with lack of characters right now. Any AU character is going to be unable to meaningfully interact with the larger story, and will always have "AU" hanging over them. MU Mag'har would have allowed the Horde to put Jorin Deadeye in a Leadership position, and considering he's an MU character, he can actually play a big role in the story without cheapening anything.

[Beerbill Society]

The Lightforged Zealotry story is boring and incredibly dumb. The only saving grace is that it irritates some of the Lightforged RPers here.

More importantly, it does matter where they come from. Orcs have a serious problem with lack of characters right now. Any AU character is going to be unable to meaningfully interact with the larger story, and will always have "AU" hanging over them. MU Mag'har would have allowed the Horde to put Jorin Deadeye in a Leadership position, and considering he's an MU character, he can actually play a big role in the story without cheapening anything.

Well, we will agree in disagree, I find the whole story very compelling, I will probably level and rep grind my horde just for checking that story out.

Also Grommash Hellscream brown orc, how can he be bad as a leader.

[Wildberry]

Also Grommash Hellscream brown orc, how can he be bad as a leader.

A.) Because he can't meaningfully interact with MU Azeroth without cheapening MU Grom.
B.) Because he's not the Mag'har leader, Overlord Geya'rah (Female Thrall) is.

[Melsiren]

The worst part is, AU Draenor Orcs would almost be understandable if they brought Iron Horde tech with them, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I just hope they don't try making Geya'rah an actual character, I'd hope they're smart enough to understand the "AU" thing is just going to hang over her character.

I was hoping the same thing. Fire back up the Under Hold, produce Blackfuse machines again. It would have been much better then turning the old Cata Warrior building into their shelter.

[steelballfc]

I can't help but think GamesWorkshop would find a way to sue Blizzard for it... Orcs in space, you know...

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Orks

mmmmm
so maybe horde invading dark realms ?

[Giovaaa]

All I can say is that I'm glad all my horde characters have been undead, trolls and orcs. I'd have no idea how any tauren would follow Sylvanas. Thankfully I can easily see how my guys would though.

[bufferunderrun]

the only unfortunate thing is that horde player who don't like that are trapped by the story blizzard wrote without any possible way to escape other than not playing the game; i mean why i should be forced into the war campaign? that should be a way to slap nathanos and say no to him.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Saying that any action against Thrall at that moment put the world at jeopardy because he could / would save the world at possibly some moment at the future is as ridiculous as saying that the orcs (of dragonmaw clan) where responsible for the same because at some point they captured Alexstrasza which was a dragon aspect that did the same (or arguably more than) Thrall at the end of the world.

Except it's not ridiculous as the game flat out tells us that Thrall's efforts are instrumental in preventing even worse destruction. This isn't some speculation of hypotheticals. Removing Thrall from his place at the Maelstrom did in fact put the world in jeopardy, and not at some possible time down the road, in-game terms it was RIGHT NOW.
Also I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Dragonmaw Orcs example. I'm arguing that kidnapping Thrall was a stupid move. And I would also argue that capturing Alexstrasza was also a stupid move, and her remaining captured indefinitely would most certainly have had negative consequences. I mean, do you disagree? Are you arguing that capturing Alexstrasza was NOT a stupid move? Was it a solid, well thought plan? Did it work out well for the Dragonmaw? How are they doing?

I'm sure he wasn't concerned with retaliation from the Horde.

But he should have been. That's part of the whole point. This is immediately post-Cataclysm. Khaz Modan has been devastated. Dark Irons are assaulting Ironforge forces. Westfall is on the brink of revolt behind a resurgent Defias Brotherhood. Auberdine has been destroyed. All the world is in chaos. And your primary foe is politically divided. Is this REALLY the best time to unify them against you? I am aware Varian was a hothead, again part of the point. His decision was fucking stupid. Any tactical information Thrall might have would be pre-Cataclysm, so most of it likely dated or outright obsolete. And again any value from that offest by uniting a divided enemy against you while your own kingdoms are reeling from destruction and revolt.

Now convince me why this is actually a brilliant master plan.

[Beerbill Society]

Except it's not ridiculous as the game flat out tells us that Thrall's efforts are instrumental in preventing even worse destruction. This isn't some speculation of hypotheticals. Removing Thrall from his place at the Maelstrom did in fact put the world in jeopardy, and not at some possible time down the road, in-game terms it was RIGHT NOW.
Also I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Dragonmaw Orcs example. I'm arguing that kidnapping Thrall was a stupid move. And I would also argue that capturing Alexstrasza was also a stupid move, and her remaining captured indefinitely would most certainly have had negative consequences. I mean, do you disagree? Are you arguing that capturing Alexstrasza was NOT a stupid move? Was it a solid, well thought plan? Did it work out well for the Dragonmaw? How are they doing?


But he should have been. That's part of the whole point. This is immediately post-Cataclysm. Khaz Modan has been devastated. Dark Irons are assaulting Ironforge forces. Westfall is on the brink of revolt behind a resurgent Defias Brotherhood. Auberdine has been destroyed. All the world is in chaos. And your primary foe is politically divided. Is this REALLY the best time to unify them against you? I am aware Varian was a hothead, again part of the point. His decision was fucking stupid. Any tactical information Thrall might have would be pre-Cataclysm, so most of it likely dated or outright obsolete. And again any value from that offest by uniting a divided enemy against you while your own kingdoms are reeling from destruction and revolt.

Now convince me why this is actually a brilliant master plan.

Now I may be wrong, but I believe Alliance tried to capture him before he even reached the maelstrom.

My point is you can blame someone's action in the past based on the uncertainty of the future.

Like you can't arrest a person for committing a crime in the future, if this fact in the past prevent the said crime from happening to begin with (aka Minority Report).

SI:7 or Varian couldn't have the knowledge, in that moment, of what you claim, that Thrall and only Thrall could save the world.

My example with Dragonmaw is to point out, that following the 'blame in the past, for the crime/event in the future' line of thought, all actions against the aspects would be equally responsible for the end of the world, even without previous knowledge.

In fact I do, for what I know Dragonmaw had success in her capture and she was forced to birth a whole clutch of eggs for the Black dragonflight (you still can see those in Grim Batol).

And last I checked Dragonmaw Clan was part of the present Horde, was Garrosh himself, invited them and he even made their leader Warlord Zaela his mate. I don't know what happend after Siege of Orgrimmar for them though.

And about Thrall capture plan, you can call it stupid but it's undeniable it has value.

You would have a trading bargain with the Horde, could be even used to avoid an attack in one of alliance's weakened settlements.

Even if his knowledge was post-cataclysm, he still had knowledge, like you said he was a talented shaman, if he couldn't give valuable insight about the horde he could at least give information about the cataclysm or the elements. I believe the whole point of SI:7 was to capture him alive for questioning.

And like I said, if Varian was willing to kill Moira in Ironforge soil, amidst a Dark Iron rebellion, the heir of Magni himself. Sorry I don't see how he would be worried about an attack from Garrosh.

[Syegfryed]

As blizzard new interview:

Sylvanas and Saurfang are embodying the other aspects of what the Horde was.

Seems like the aspects of the horde are paranoia, psychotic, sociopathy, deceive lies and the desire of killing the living thanks blizzard SeemsGood
and:

It may be a chance for the Horde to look inward and become something new and stronger.

cause this shit didn't happen in MOP already also "new and stronger mad eme laugh

The Lightforged Zealotry story is boring and incredibly dumb. The only saving grace is that it irritates some of the Lightforged RPers here.

More importantly, it does matter where they come from. Orcs have a serious problem with lack of characters right now. Any AU character is going to be unable to meaningfully interact with the larger story, and will always have "AU" hanging over them. MU Mag'har would have allowed the Horde to put Jorin Deadeye in a Leadership position, and considering he's an MU character, he can actually play a big role in the story without cheapening anything.

im strong convinced they would kill or forget Jorin to bring a new female character btw

[Super Dickmann]

Sylvanas and Saurfang are embodying the other aspects of what the Horde was.

They're going to saddle us with fucking Baine, aren't they?

[Deleted]

Apparently it's intentional. Sylvanas and Saurfang embody two sides of the same coin. And we have to face the Horde's past to know the Horde's future.

Guess who embodied both sides at once? Garrosh. Combine Sylvanas' ruthlessness and Saurfang's honour and you get someone very much like Garrosh.

Blizzard must be regretting killing him off.

[Hubbl3]

They're going to saddle us with fucking Baine, aren't they?

Since Blizz likes rezzing characters for like no reason I say bring back Cairne as a proper tauren leader.

[Deleted]

They're going to saddle us with fucking Baine, aren't they?

After reading that interview I'm starting to think so. Especially the part about the Horde "becoming something new and stronger than ever before". That just reeks of "da horde be da family" 2.0

[Syegfryed]

They're going to saddle us with fucking Baine, aren't they?

dear god, they might do exactly this

- - - Updated - - -

After reading that interview I'm starting to think so. Especially the part about the Horde "becoming something new and stronger than ever before". That just reeks of "da horde be da family" 2.0

but this time with the tauren version

they already said they wanted every race be warchief sometime, since sylvanas count as elf and undead, its baine tun now

[Super Dickmann]

After reading that interview I'm starting to think so. Especially the part about the Horde "becoming something new and stronger than ever before". That just reeks of "da horde be da family" 2.0

@Syegfryed

If the idea is to reconcile the Sylvanas and Saurfang aspects of the Horde, Baine is easily the worst candidate since he has none of the positives of either and whole new negatives like being an Alliance stooge and never having a relevant part in anything. That and we did this already with Vol'jin and they decided to kill him, so why pull this crap again? The downside of pulling the evil Warchief storyline again is that there's zero good candidates. Nobody wants Warchief Baine or Warchief Lor'themar and while I'd like Warchief Gallywix just because it'd be funny, I don't think that's what Blizzard are going for.

[Syegfryed]

@Syegfryed

If the idea is to reconcile the Sylvanas and Saurfang aspects of the Horde, Baine is easily the worst candidate since he has none of the positives of either and whole new negatives like being an Alliance stooge and never having a relevant part in anything. That and we did this already with Vol'jin and they decided to kill him, so why pull this crap again? The downside of pulling the evil Warchief storyline again is that there's zero good candidates. Nobody wants Warchief Baine or Warchief Lor'themar and while I'd like Warchief Gallywix just because it'd be funny, I don't think that's what Blizzard are going for.

who can tell what the fuck is their idea, i bet they are just throwing shit in the headquarters and see what comes, they are drive by the rule of cool and what is "badass" in their view. More they talk more i want to kill a kid

[Wildberry]

im strong convinced they would kill or forget Jorin to bring a new female character btw

They would suddenly forget that Geyah was on death's door back in BC. Either that or shove Aggra down our throats.

- - - Updated - - -

Guess who embodied both sides at once? Garrosh. Combine Sylvanas' ruthlessness and Saurfang's honour and you get someone very much like Garrosh.

Blizzard must be regretting killing him off.

I really hope they do. They deserve to feel that way for such a poor decision.

Do you know how difficult it is to get into a faction war expansion when he isn't Warchief?

[therealbowser]

Well, the definition that was pulled in the Teldrassil situation went along the lines of "Genocide is intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part". So there was an intent to destroy goblins -as the attack was exclusively on goblin race - in part. And yes, if you played goblin intro, there was just one ship. The ship was big, the goblins are small.

Well gee, you sure got me there. The Alliance were clearly trying to wipe out the entire goblin race and were actively hunting them down, we can tell from the story that the goblins weren't at the wrong place at the wrong time or anything, they were simply being hunted by the Alliance. Because that's what genocide is, and that's what happened, obviously.

And obviously the entire goblin race -- which apparently consists of about ~20 goblins or so -- was on that boat. Obviously. No other ships escape except for Trade Prince Gallywix. No other ships were in the entire port of Kezan, and no others escaped. Clearly.

Sorry, but I just can't take this response seriously.

PS: Shooting a single goblin ship is obviously comparable to burning down an entire capital city (containing more than once race, even) of innocents alive. This clearly isn't grasping for straws to defend your honorable warchief's noble and respectable actions.