Personal loot and gearing up your raid

[Onikaroshi]

Maybe stop trying to game the system and just let everyone keep loot they get, or let those people decide whether they want to part with it or not?

Loot has never been simpler. You get something, or you don't get anything. If you get something and you don't need it, you can trade it to someone else. No problem.

Except you can't more often then it should be. Between Azerite and useless items with higher ilvls. If they want to pull the card of "it's your loot!" then they should also let you do what you want with it.

[Deleted]

Except you can't more often then it should be. Between Azerite and useless items with higher ilvls. If they want to pull the card of "it's your loot!" then they should also let you do what you want with it.

As they mentioned with the introduction of PL, that mechanism is so that there's no way to pressure individuals to give up loot that'd be an upgrade for them. Why do you think the devs introduced such limitation? It's not ad hoc, there were reasons for it, they knew exactly how things go in social groups. That trading limitation is there to limit the damage. Yes, sure, in those situations that you mention it's a slight impediment. But it's the price to be paid for the tendencies of humans who can behave quite inappropriately when driven by greed.

[Deiae]

You keep discussing points that aren't even central to the whole thing. The most convincing point to me was mentioned earlier in this thread was that it was removed to slow down loot aquisition in the beginning - thus lengthening the initial race. Which is intended or atleast welcomed I think.
Whether loot was fairly distributed or not does not play into it. Unfair loot distribution and "bro loot council-like" loot trading will still continue under PL. If you're not playing well you or not well liked among your peers you will receive less opportunities to get loot - just as before.
You can council or give loot to people (maybe preferably a best mate) once it is tradeable and that was and is in the future controlled by social dynamics.

[kamuimac]

You keep discussing points that aren't even central to the whole thing. The most convincing point to me was mentioned earlier in this thread was that it was removed to slow down loot aquisition in the beginning - thus lengthening the initial race. Which is intended or atleast welcomed I think.
Whether loot was fairly distributed or not does not play into it. Unfair loot distribution and "bro loot council-like" loot trading will still continue under PL. If you're not playing well you or not well liked among your peers you will receive less opportunities to get loot - just as before.
You can council or give loot to people (maybe preferably a best mate) once it is tradeable and that was and is in the future controlled by social dynamics.

they will end very fast - most people in those run 2-3 specs at the same time so they always have excuse that they need this trinekt or that stats for OS for boss X .

its super easy to game each of those systems and people doin that content are not idiots they had to fight fith teeth and claw for gear for years to beat bis lists.

give it 2 months and most of pseudo-loot-councils will give it up.

[Aktec]

So I have a 350 staff equipped and a 325 1h drops for me, I want to trade it to a h pally guilde but it doesn't let me. Good thing personal loot in in the game right? right?

But seriously if this is an issue in raids it will piss a lot of people off.

[JackWest]

So I have a 350 staff equipped and a 325 1h drops for me, I want to trade it to a h pally guilde but it doesn't let me. Good thing personal loot in in the game right? right?

But seriously if this is an issue in raids it will piss a lot of people off.

Dont forget untradeble azerite. Yday i was tanking some mythics as prot pally. I have 340 helm equipped. I loot another one, same ilvl. I cannot give it to the ret pally in grp, who has 310 equipped. If blizz wants to make us vendor gear we DONT need, rather than to give it to a teammate, they are very successful. Never seen more ‘social’ design in a ‘social’ game

[kooz]

loot could be potentially just a small proportion of social interactions in the game, explore other means to be social. abusers and toxicity were addressed based on data blizz collected, in case we see it's not enough, i'm sure further steps and actions will ensue. p.s you don't have to vendor, use scrapper or de like i do.

[JackWest]

loot could be potentially just a small proportion of social interactions in the game, explore other means to be social. abusers and toxicity were addressed based on data blizz collected, in case we see it's not enough, i'm sure further steps and actions will ensue. p.s you don't have to vendor, use scrapper or de like i do.

Doesnt matter if you scrap it, DE it or vendor it. Point is i have to destroy a piece of loot, i dont need, but someone else in the group needs, because i cant give it to them. I’ve heard is because of ‘restriction’ due to traits. If only there was a way to make the drop a tradeble token, that creates the specific item based on what class opens it and where it dropped from...i mean, those ‘IDs’(drop and class) are already there. Slapping them on a token instead on loot table would easily solve this

[rebecca191]

If anyone is toxic, it is Blizzard for not letting us give friends and guildies drops we don't need or want, that we are then forced to destroy when that item could have helped someone else.

[Demeia]

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

I didn't hear that from this raid leader. His approached seemed fine for a fairly hard-core group of players. I would only say to him that it's my understanding that the Mount is always tradeable though that might not affect his decision on last-boss kills for trials. I also could be quite wrong.

Blizzard is experimenting and given their record lately, ML will not come back. Maybe they will somehow increase the drop rates of mythic rewards. A better solution for the mount would have it always drop for the raid leader who can then trade it to whoever. An even better solution would be to have THAT solution AND make it possible that it could drop for someone else randomly, thus increasing the chance to get two (or more) mounts.

[Bhorin]

Dont forget untradeble azerite. Yday i was tanking some mythics as prot pally. I have 340 helm equipped. I loot another one, same ilvl. I cannot give it to the ret pally in grp, who has 310 equipped. If blizz wants to make us vendor gear we DONT need, rather than to give it to a teammate, they are very successful. Never seen more ‘social’ design in a ‘social’ game

You say this as if you knew that they wouldn't make Azerite armor autoloot (like pantheon trinkets) even with ML.

[Tonkaden]

Doesnt matter if you scrap it, DE it or vendor it. Point is i have to destroy a piece of loot, i dont need, but someone else in the group needs, because i cant give it to them. I’ve heard is because of ‘restriction’ due to traits. If only there was a way to make the drop a tradeble token, that creates the specific item based on what class opens it and where it dropped from...i mean, those ‘IDs’(drop and class) are already there. Slapping them on a token instead on loot table would easily solve this

Honestly , we are a victim of our own methods. If we didn’t game systems like we do, blizzard wouldn’t have to step in. This whole change was brought about due to a) split runs and b) players joining guilds, participating 100% on kills and going weeks without loot because “reasons”.

By all means, try and game the current system. Try and make a player trade loot or be gkicked. Blizzard will make loot non-tradable so fast that your head will spin.

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If anyone is toxic, it is Blizzard for not letting us give friends and guildies drops we don't need or want, that we are then forced to destroy when that item could have helped someone else.

Yea. Blizzard is so toxic for not letting you keep people from getting loot that they earned. Bad bad blizzard!

[rebecca191]

This is a "cure is worse than the disease" thing. It punishes not just the guilds that responsibly used ML, but also individuals who want to pass loot they don't need to others who could use it, but can't due to dumb trading rules. It is pretty toxic to force players to destroy or vendor gear they can't use instead of letting players choose to give it away to someone who would use it.

[JackWest]

Honestly , we are a victim of our own methods. If we didn’t game systems like we do, blizzard wouldn’t have to step in. This whole change was brought about due to a) split runs and b) players joining guilds, participating 100% on kills and going weeks without loot because “reasons”.

By all means, try and game the current system. Try and make a player trade loot or be gkicked. Blizzard will make loot non-tradable so fast that your head will spin.

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Yea. Blizzard is so toxic for not letting you keep people from getting loot that they earned. Bad bad blizzard!

How do you know "our" or "my" methods? How do you know how loot is distributed in our guild? Ohh thats right, you dont. You just assume that because the polish GM who kept giving the loot to his brother and his GF, everyone is doing the same. Same ignorant mentality. Nothing new to see here

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You say this as if you knew that they wouldn't make Azerite armor autoloot (like pantheon trinkets) even with ML.

Unlike the pantheon trinkets, azerite has many "chooseble" variables and many different combinations. If it was one, and thats it, ONLY then I could see it being "pantheon like" drop

[Deleted]

As they mentioned with the introduction of PL, that mechanism is so that there's no way to pressure individuals to give up loot that'd be an upgrade for them. Why do you think the devs introduced such limitation? It's not ad hoc, there were reasons for it, they knew exactly how things go in social groups. That trading limitation is there to limit the damage. Yes, sure, in those situations that you mention it's a slight impediment. But it's the price to be paid for the tendencies of humans who can behave quite inappropriately when driven by greed.

Aka. "I can't stand up for myself so I need blizzard to limit the experience for players instead"?

Taking away player agency is never a good thing, let me and my guild play exactly as we want, not how blizzard envisions we should play.

Personal loot is a bloody disaster, and I'll take every chance I get to be a whingy cunt about it to perhaps get other options back one day, the tactic seemed to work to get this implemented in the first place.

[rebecca191]

As a team player who cares about the overall progression of my mythic raiding group, I'd much rather be asked to trade an item, than be forced to waste an item I don't want, that someone else needs, but it isn't tradable. Our guild bank just handed out a ton of epic BOEs to everyone on the raid team at no cost to individuals to give us a head start on gearing. So I would happily trade an item that is better for someone else in the future. Our leadership isn't greedy or selfish and made reasonable loot decisions. Blizzard is basically forcing everyone to be individually selfish and greedy about loot, with a "me me me mine mine mine" mentality, instead of letting us decide as adults if we want to share. They forced one play style I want nothing to do with on everyone because expecting people to make choices like mature, responsible adults is just too much to ask, I guess.

[Deleted]

Maybe stop trying to game the system and just let everyone keep loot they get, or let those people decide whether they want to part with it or not?

Loot has never been Worse. You get something, or you don't get anything. If you get something and you don't need it, you cant trade it to someone else. problem.

fixed. its bad for reasons which have been pointed out again and again.

[Deleted]

Guys what do you think is the minimum ilvl to start normal udir ? 330+ or higher ?

[Deleted]

Aka. "I can't stand up for myself so I need blizzard to limit the experience for players instead"?

Taking away player agency is never a good thing, let me and my guild play exactly as we want, not how blizzard envisions we should play.

Personal loot is a bloody disaster, and I'll take every chance I get to be a whingy cunt about it to perhaps get other options back one day, the tactic seemed to work to get this implemented in the first place.

This.

And the best part is, the only people that think this change is good, are the baddies who know nothing about stat priority, and don't realize that raiding is a guild effort. These people are almost always in shitty ass guilds that don't distribute loot fairly.

[Count Zero]

Guys what do you think is the minimum ilvl to start normal udir ? 330+ or higher ?

Guild or pug ?