I don't really want lfr to be released...

[MoanaLisa]

I feel like LFR has kind of outlived it's usefulness if they keep the dungeons ILVL competitive and have WQ to fill in the gaps. Just feels like LFR is a great way to burn people out on the raids at this point.

LFR provides a guaranteed spot in a group doing raid content. That is its usefulness and is unlikely to ever be 'outlived'. If you don't like it or quake in fear of it, then I advise ignoring it.

As for devaluing other content: If you enjoy the content, run it. If you don't, don't. If all you are doing is running something to press the lever at the end of the maze and get your treat, you should reevaluate why you are playing at all.

If you are running in a group in LFR and you see someone who is obviously just AFK and following boot them the fuck out of the group. These folks are generally not that hard to see.

[Cassidin]

This is a very ignorant comment that either shows a lack of understanding for what the op is actually talking about, or it's a troll.

Just because the op doesn't do lfr themselves, does not mean lfr does not have an impact on the entire game and the player population as a whole. There is nothing quite like lfr in the game ( except perhaps world bosses ), where you can click a queue ... go afk on follow ... and then be rewarded high value loot at the end.

Once it opens, it will devalue the benefit of running normal and heroic dungeons, where you cannot afk on follow since it is a group of 5 that will kick you. Once lfr opens, it also impairs the available pool of players for normal and heroic dungeons, since motivation to run in normal and heroic groups is diminished due to the low effort margin required to earn lfr gear.

In short, the biggest problem with lfr is that the effort/reward ratio is completely out of sync with the rest of the game and it introduces an element to higher end gearing with no accountability to effort, presence, or performance.

The problem is your hyperbole can be used to say that normal/heroic modes should be removed as they diminish the player base for mythic. It may be true that a access to a lower level may well cause people not to aim for a higher level. However why should they? Why should someone play a higher level than they want to - just so you have more people to pick and choose from?

What about those that are rejected by your pick-and-choose? They have nothing left as LFR has been removed - is that fair? Remove something that people can do just so you can refuse access to higher content?

I am tired of hearing the "LFR is just for people to go on follow and get loot" - in reality this rarely happens, at least it is not the occurrence rate that people claim.

You are also forgetting that for some people LFR is as challenging as they can manage. just because you may breeze through normal, heroic, or even mythic it doesn't mean that for some people LFR is actaully very challenging. It is however a challenge that they can achieve and feel they have progressed. It actually IS some people's progression.

[Dug]

Nah LFR will come and you'll just have to deal with it. I want to experience the raids no matter how watered down they are and Pugs/organized raiding is no longer my thing.

[Mr chub]

Or you could simply do the thing you want to do becasue it is fun?

Apart from the fact that LFR does not 'destroy' other methods of obtaining gear, gear is not the end all argument for doing things. Something pretty much everyone seems to miss...

Reduce lfr drops to match its difficultly and the tune changes quickly. I like the progression ladder. I enjoy the notion of improving and facing harder and harder challenges and crafting weapons and going out of your way to to improve. Lfr is the destroyer of this. It's the path of least resistance.

[shaunika123]

LFR is the necessary evil we must endure so that we can have proper raids.

at least that's how I justify it.

[Redroniksre]

Reduce lfr drops to match its difficultly and the tune changes quickly. I like the progression ladder. I enjoy the notion of improving and facing harder and harder challenges and crafting weapons and going out of your way to to improve. Lfr is the destroyer of this. It's the path of least resistance.

The path is Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Mythic 0 > LFR. Which of these is even hard? (Tip: the answer is none) What does LFR devalue? Nothing that normal raids and up don't do either.

[Otimus]

If LFR wasn't coming, I'd just unsub until the next content patch after I get revered with the war campaign faction and do all the heroic dungeons once.

Remove LFR entirely, and I only sub for a month or two when new content drops.

(Though, I guess, with LFR, there's only one or two extra months tacked onto my subbing, then I'm back to waiting for content. I'm probably never going to do mythics or normal raiding. If my guild were active, that'd be different, but actively engaging with this community makes me want to uninstall the game 9 times out of 10.)

[Cassidin]

Reduce lfr drops to match its difficultly and the tune changes quickly. I like the progression ladder. I enjoy the notion of improving and facing harder and harder challenges and crafting weapons and going out of your way to to improve. Lfr is the destroyer of this. It's the path of least resistance.

Still dont get how other people doing "easy LFR" destroys YOUR progression. You can still progress however you have the ability to. The rewards for LFR already are in line with the difficulty. In Legion for example in Antorus they were 6 lvls higher than the stuff you could get just doing world quests.

Currently I am getting world quests that give 325 gear - some lower - some have forged higher. As my gear inceases these rewards will increase up to whatever they have set the world quest cap to. I would not at all be surprised to see world quests giving 340 ilvl gear before LFR comes out. How then would LFR giving 340 gear by out of proportion?

[Mr chub]

That literally goes for any other content or difficulty. Why have heroic dungeons drop gear if mythic dungeons drop better? You are also inconsistent, saying in one post that LFR is not easier than Mythic dungeons, then say its equal to normal difficulty. Your arguments are flawed and this is a very badly disguised LFR Hate thread.

Because mythic is harder... what possible point do you think you are making?

[damonskye]

Reduce lfr drops to match its difficultly and the tune changes quickly. I like the progression ladder. I enjoy the notion of improving and facing harder and harder challenges and crafting weapons and going out of your way to to improve. Lfr is the destroyer of this. It's the path of least resistance.

How does me doing LFR affect you in any way?

How does people doing LFR getting 340 gear affect you doing normal and heroic and mythic raids for 355+ gear?

How does your progression on gear affect me in any way?

The answer to all of these is "it doesn't."

[Redroniksre]

Because mythic is harder... what possible point do you think you are making?

But it is not? I've wiped more in LFR than i have in any Mythic 0. If anything they have comparable difficulty, if you think mythic 0 is harder then, well i don't know what to tell you.

[Mr chub]

How does me doing LFR affect you in any way?

How does people doing LFR getting 340 gear affect you doing normal and heroic and mythic raids for 355+ gear?

How does your progression on gear affect me in any way?

The answer to all of these is "it doesn't."

You know you can read the opening post. Lfr does not effect raids beyond maybe if your luck sucks the first week or so.

[clevin]

Mods, can you start infracting "Delete LFR" troll threads? Because this debate isn't just stale, it's fucking rotted, decayed, spawned new life, died and is stale again.

OP:

It's not going to happen.
You're not the only player here.
You can ignore it if you want
Please F off and quit telling other people how they should play

[kabshiel]

LFR is perfect for players like me, who become casuals and we want to see end game content without spending hours of raiding grinding for mats pots flasks etc etc. And we are the majority of subs. So you can always ignore it and do pugs or find a guild to do normals hcs and mythic.

You can easily PUG normal raids (and eventually heroic ones too) and there is zero grinding required. LFR is perfect for bad players and people who want to AFK to gear.

[damonskye]

You know you can read the opening post. Lfr does not effect raids beyond maybe if your luck sucks the first week or so.

I read the opening post and everything else. You are simply not answering the fundamental question. LFR has NO IMPACT on what you do in this game, and you choosing to ignore it completely makes it a non-issue. It is also going nowhere and is here to stay.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

You can easily PUG normal raids (and eventually heroic ones too) and there is zero grinding required. LFR is perfect for bad players and people who want to AFK to gear.

Yeah lets see if you can clear LFR raids when everyone is AFK....

Get a grip.

[Cassidin]

But it is not? I've wiped more in LFR than i have in any Mythic 0. If anything they have comparable difficulty, if you think mythic 0 is harder then, well i don't know what to tell you.

I was assuming he meant Mythic raiding or maybe Mythic+ dungeons not simply standard Mythic dungeons. However there are two things harder about Mythic dungeons than LFR.

• Mythic dungeons are not queueable and are at the whim of the entry requirements stipulated by the organiser so it can sometimes be harder to actually get INTO a mythic dungeon.
• LFR has more people and so provides more of a buffer for the less skilled. Less skilled in a mythic dungeon (even a +0, or even a heroic) is more of an issue than it is in LFR which is more forgiving.

So standard plain mythic dungeons may not be more difficult than LFR - but they are more problematic.

[Mr chub]

I read the opening post and everything else. You are simply not answering the fundamental question. LFR has NO IMPACT on what you do in this game, and you choosing to ignore it completely makes it a non-issue. It is also going nowhere and is here to stay.

You simply lack comprehension I suggest meditation. Ponder the simple statements and notice how so many people are able to understand them. In time you may find enlightenment.

[Cassidin]

You can easily PUG normal raids (and eventually heroic ones too) and there is zero grinding required. LFR is perfect for bad players and people who want to AFK to gear.

And also those that may be able to stay for 2 hours - and may have to leave with 2 mins notice. Someone leaving LFR has zero effect on the group - someone leaving an organised group has more of an effect especially if its a smaller group size.

I currently limit myself to LFR for exactly that reason.

[Redroniksre]

I was assuming he meant Mythic raiding or maybe Mythic+ dungeons not simply standard Mythic dungeons. However there are two things harder about Mythic dungeons than LFR.

• Mythic dungeons are not queueable and are at the whim of the entry requirements stipulated by the organiser so it can sometimes be harder to actually get INTO a mythic dungeon.
• LFR has more people and so provides more of a buffer for the less skilled. Less skilled in a mythic dungeon (even a +0, or even a heroic) is more of an issue than it is in LFR which is more forgiving.

So standard plain mythic dungeons may not be more difficult than LFR - but they are more problematic.

Yeah they are more problematic, but are much easier to organize than a normal raid. Mythic + does offer better rewards so his point is null there, but he was also saying it makes Heroic, Normal, and Quest gear useless. Pretty much all content in the game does that, they have never lasted.