Unequipping items makes you stronger

[dayne87]

I noticed this as I was getting into the upper 110s and gaining more items but until I came to the forums I didn't realize the scaling was by ilvl in addition to character level.

Now I'm 120 with around a 290 ilvl and where I used to be able to handle 4-6 mobs as a BM hunter with my pet now I am blowing defensive cooldowns on my pet (the damage reduction one and the one to bring him to 100% health) in addition to hitting mend pet on every cooldown just to handle 2-3 mobs.

The only solace I have is that it will hopefully get better when I hit a plateau, but unfortunately once I've gotten through the story content and unlocked Pathfinder part 1 I will probably pause my sub until 8.1 at least in the hopes that they equalize the experience at 120 a bit more.

[Druantis]

It seems most people posting are distracted by the PvP aspects of ilevel scaling as opposed to level scaling.

The actual intent of the ilevel scaling is to slow down/stop bot farming, especially the unmanned fully-automated variety. Farmers used to run long lines of fresh max-level characters with the engineering mounts (don't need to dismount for herbs) following the same routes for levelling characters to sell, gold farming, and mat collection.

Now mobs would swarm them or at least slow them down exponentially (as well as profits to the point where new account costs after each ban wave won't even break even). You'll notice you haven't seen any of those bots (only the few remaining rotation bots) so far this expac? Which is reflected in the crazy pricing in ah (especially fish, as most of the fishing bots have also been banned).

This is one of the main reasons Blizz switched to 64-bit only, which instantly removed 90% of the bots, after hiring one of the best hack reverse engineers who has also implemented many other things after his success with Overwatch.

I don't like it, but we all have to put up with the ilevel scaling as it is actually for the good of the game for now. Blizz is determined to make Mythic+ and PVP an esport (do some research before you bother arguing with your mere whitehat/fanboy opinion) -- and removal of all bots (which is why, for the first time, they have gone so hardcore after rotation bots) is one of their main objectives because of that. They won't remove ilevel scaling because of this.

The icing on the cake for Blizz was that it stopped new players from leaving the game (they are now about to report record subs) after being gank farmed by sociopaths. Blizz also gave us the option to turn PvP Warmode OFF and not be ganked by lowbies.

Because people have no idea, and think their opinion equals fact, get ready for the posts accusing me of tinfoil hatting.

[Accendor]

Because they want significant scaling in raids so that a new tier feels meaningful. If they just reduce player scaling from ~1%/ilvl to ~0.5%/ilvl then you don't feel progression going from normal to heroic, or heroic to mythic.

Now I am still not feeling progression, so it seems that they failed.

[Deleted]

It seems most people posting are distracted by the PvP aspects of ilevel scaling as opposed to level scaling.

The actual intent of the ilevel scaling is to slow down/stop bot farming, especially the unmanned fully-automated variety. Farmers used to run long lines of fresh max-level characters with the engineering mounts (don't need to dismount for herbs) following the same routes for levelling characters to sell, gold farming, and mat collection.

Now mobs would swarm them or at least slow them down exponentially (as well as profits). You'll notice you haven't seen any of those bots (only the few remaining rotation bots) so far this expac? Which is reflected in the crazy pricing in ah (especially fish, as most of the fishing bots have also been banned).

This is also one of the main reasons Blizz switched to 64-bit only, which instantly removed 90% of the bots, and hired one of the best hack reverse engineers who has also implemented many other things after his success with Overwatch.

I don't like it, but we all have to put up with the ilevel scaling as it actually for the good of the game for now. Blizz is determined to make Mythic+ and PVP an esport (do some research before you bother arguing with your mere whitehat opinion) -- and removal of bots is one of their main objectives because of that.

Our other option is to turn PvP Warmode OFF and not be ganked by lowbies.

And I am no fanboy by any means.

Pretty sure your bot argument is flawed. Botting died out for the greater public when Blizzard decided to legally sue its counterpart in terms of botting. After they shut down, botting numbers went down by a staggering amount.

Simply put that there's barely any ready available programs out there that will aid people in a similar manner as to Honorbuddy worked for the larger public.

Switching to a 64 bit version wouldn't have made a difference. The main reason why prices are steep is inflation. People want more gold in return for their time spent. Also there's simply more gold available than there was a couple of years ago.

[Clozer]

A fresh 120 will clear a normal dungeon, wich is the relevant content to the player, not a mythic. Your comparation makes no sense.

? ? ?

The question was: WHY DO I NEED GEAR IF OUTDOOR CONTENT SCALES?
The answer was: TO CLEAR MYTHIC RAIDS.

You understand that?

[azka]

Petition to replace their incompetent employees with someone who knows what they are doing even if that person is from an online community suggestor or contributor.

Lol NO! No way!

[Sosua]

Ion's input on it: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...he-open-world/

[Druantis]

Pretty sure your bot argument is flawed. Botting died out for the greater public when Blizzard decided to legally sue its counterpart in terms of botting. After they shut down, botting numbers went down by a staggering amount.

Simply put that there's barely any ready available programs out there that will aid people in a similar manner as to Honorbuddy worked for the larger public.

Switching to a 64 bit version wouldn't have made a difference. The main reason why prices are steep is inflation. People want more gold in return for their time spent. Also there's simply more gold available than there was a couple of years ago.

So you believe there was only one bot for the largest MMO in history? LOL. That was just the most popular/known one.

Few botting companies had the talent to get past 32-bit (64-bit is a massive upgrade in programming ability) and even fewer past the new hack reverse engineer's obsfucation implementation (which had zero other purpose than to prevent botting/hacking) but thanks for proving yet again opinion somehow equals fact.

Have you not noticed the pulses of lag where Blizz snapshots everyone's running processes (after updating the TOS)? Irritating, but like ilevel scaling a necessary inconvenience to combat bots.

Gold availability/pricing (i.e. certain vendor mounts) has to do with the token (which easily made up for sub losses) and another reason farming bots had to be removed (tokens ensured ROI on Blizz's continuing investment in this franchise). And speaking of ROI, ilevel scaling also means higher profits thanks to veterans paying for a boosted character rather than having to wade through 120 scaled levels (can't just blast through them anymore).

[Konteil]

i have stopped at this point and ill try it agian in a fw months. its a huge letdown.
part of teh fun of having a low lvl alt adn all teh looms that ive worked so hard to get over the last 15 years is to be able to plow thru shit. that fun is gone. i actually make a new alt to level each xpac. i did a rogue this time. not fun at all

[Deleted]

Let's not forget that in a few weeks when mythic raids come out you will have the opportunity to loot ilvl 400 items. 100 more than the crafted blues. Yeah, it's stupid....gear inflation is the real problem, if that wasn't an issue then mob scaling wouldn't actually be necessary at all. But hey, 4 difficulties and titanforging are what Blizzard wants....

[Krep]

we should be oneshotting mobs

that's the point of an MMO

to outgear shit and feel super powerful

To me, that sounds like YOU ego trip in an MMO. The point of an MMO-rpg is to emerse yourself into a world and play as a member of that world..... but that's just me thinking logically. There are plenty of games (read: almost all games) where you encounter increasingly difficult npcs as it progresses. Most people don't consider this a problem.... so why is it a problem when a game where you're continually facing the same NPCs still feel like a challenge?

My view is that it's not actually a problem and people on sites like MMO-c are just going to complain to complain, but if you talk to the people in game they're having a great time.

[Nihilan]

Already unsubbed. Ive got 7-8 days left. Maybe ill come back when flight is available. Hopefully there there will have been an absolutely brutal purge of certain management personnel at Blizzard by then.

[Schizoide]

I'm actually all-for charlevel and itemlvl scaling conceptually, they just implemented it poorly.

Problem is this.

1) Every level from 111 through 119 you feel just dramatically weaker. This always happened but is much more noticeable than in previous expansions. Also 116 is a huge cliff when legendaries turn off. You're killing mobs in 3-4 seconds at 111 and 9-10 seconds at 119. This feels really bad, and better char level and itemlvl scaling could smooth out that curve such that killing a standard mob takes 5-7 seconds the whole way. The leveling experience would be much more fun.

2) As a new 120, mobs take forever to kill. This again, feels really bad. Mobs should be scaled down at <315 itemlvl such that they, again, take 5-7s to kill.

3) Given the amount of mudflation in WoW today with titanforging, mythic+ levels, and multiple raid difficulties, it makes sense to scale up mob difficulty with itemlvl also. But they shouldn't start scaling mobs up until at MINIMUM mythic0 itemlvls-- itemlvl 340. At that point your players have established maximum level characters and they're no longer comparing gameplay against how it felt at 110 with all their BIS legendaries.


Edit: Here's a post on Reddit where the guy actually went to the work of figuring out how mob ilvl scaling works. Go vote him up!

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...level_scaling/

Basically scaling starts at itemlvl 300, which is why new 120s at 280ish feel REALLY weak. And then it scales up every itemlvl at increasing rates, up to 17% additional health at 340 which is where he stopped.

[Otimus]

Allegations of wanting to sell boosts abound... but there is no boost to 120.

Additionally, the worst part of the scaling is right after 120.

Think before sling mud.

Oh, right. Just subtract that part. It definitely probably is to extend the play session, though. Most of MMO design is.

[vertigo12]

Ion's input on it: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...he-open-world/

Roflmaorh on his thesis like reply! Seriously they have to resolve in several paragraphs worth of explanation and beating around the bush instead of making just one paragraph: We're sorry if we screw things up we'll correct it as soon as possible.

[Schizoide]

That post was from back in 2017, for Legion. Interestingly they made the exact same mistake in BFA, the scaling doesn't start low enough and is way too steep at lower itemlvls. That feels really bad. What would feel good is something like

Fresh lvl 120, itemlvl <280: 80% of current baseline health
itemlvl 290: 85%
itemlvl 300: 90%
itemlvl 310: 100%
itemlvl 320: 104%
itemlvl 330: 108%
itemlvl 340: 117%

So at itemlvl 340 you're still at 117% baseline health same as the live game today, but you don't feel nearly as weak when starting out.

[Blackmist]

They just need to fuck scaling off when it comes to item level. Once you hit 120 the mobs stay the same. Any other system is insane

I agree to a point, the scaling needs to be brought down a touch.

But as somebody who took poorly geared alts to later questing areas, like Timeless Isle, it was painful.

[Lodreh]

Mobs scaling to your level is good, but mobs scaling with your ilevel isn't.

No, it isn't. Scaling kills the sense of progression.

[Narwal]

it's no fun to beat relevant content in a heartbeat. you spend more time traveling to wq than you spend actually doing them. it's stupid. and i highly doubt that your fresh 120 hunter will clear mythic raids while your geared rogue is much more likely to achieve that.

Scaling outdoor mobs keeps the content engaging, fun and makes it not absolut faceroll and boring.

With this mentality, why not just get rid of gear and character progression? It worked great for pvp in legion, oh wait... they've backtracked on that now.

[Nihilan]

With this mentality, why not just get rid of gear and character progression?

There is no character progression anymore. There is only gear. Levels mean nothing what so ever. They havent since Legion alpha.