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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    could it be that the horde is not one homogenous entity and has different characters in it with varying degrees between those two extremes?

    should I call the entire alliance petty bloodthirsty suicidal psycopaths because you guys have genn?

    Sure sylvanas is being unreasonable (understatement of the century) but you would be too if a sniveling dog robbed you and your people's chance at immortality.
    If it's not an homegenous entity, why in the blazes are literally everyone but Saurfang and lolBaine 100% on board with a Warchief that has already made more questionable decisions than pre-5.1 Garrosh?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    If it's not an homegenous entity, why in the blazes are literally everyone but Saurfang and lolBaine 100% on board with a Warchief that has already made more questionable decisions than pre-5.1 Garrosh?
    Horde players are very much not 100% on board with Sylvanas.

    You can't claim non-named NPCs. You can't claim named ones unless you have some sort of direct story insight into their minds. Maybe the repair vendor is feeling conflicted about the whole thing. You don't know.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Good vs bad is stupid. You know who is wrong and you know who wins in the end. Bad vs bad, on the other side... Like W40k. Imperium is totalitarian theocracy, Tau are castrating people to make them mercifully go extinct in the name of greater good, eldar dispise almost everyone else and like using lower races as meatshield, and the rest are pretty much either genocidal aliens or daemons from Warp.
    We can we not turn every setting into 40K? Look, a dose of grimdark is nice and all, but that setting also has more than its fair share of spectacularly dumbass shit and having everyone be a grimderp genocidal maniac gets tiring after a while. Warhammer Fantasy is more to my taste, it has a greater spectrum of morality, if you want to be the goody two shoes High Elves you can, if you want to be baby eaters the Dark Elves or Skaven exist, and you have factions like Empire, Tomb Kings and lizards serving as more flawed in-betweens.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    If it's not an homegenous entity, why in the blazes are literally everyone but Saurfang and lolBaine 100% on board with a Warchief that has already made more questionable decisions than pre-5.1 Garrosh?
    because when your warchief gives you orders you do them? the horde is not a democracy

    that's like saying "omg if people are so upset with trump why dont they just leave america"

    they're still part of the same horde.

    and dont forget, many things justify the war from the horde's perspective, no little thanks for sylvanas's good PR about it.

    remember how the alliance blames us the whole legion for the death of varian even though we couldnt do anything about it?
    remember how they tried to assassinate sylvanas in stormheim?
    remember how they attacked the goblins in silithus?
    and the simple fact that azerite is so insanely powerful that neither side wants the other to have it.

    it's not hard to spin all that into a war
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-08-23 at 01:16 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    because when your warchief gives you orders you do them? the horde is not a democracy

    that's like saying "omg if people are so upset with trump why dont they just leave america"

    they're still part of the same horde.

    and dont forget, many things justify the war from the horde's perspective, no little thanks for sylvanas's good PR about it.

    remember how the alliance blames us the whole legion for the death of varian even though we couldnt do anything about it?
    remember how they tried to assassinate sylvanas in stormheim?
    remember how they attacked the goblins in silithus?
    and the simple fact that azerite is so insanely powerful that neither side wants the other to have it.

    it's not easy to spin all that into a war
    The Trump example isn't exactly amazing considering how much criticism he gets.

    I'm not saying the Horde should start a second SoO the moment she steps out of line, but having radio silence outside of two NPCs that have done nothing thus far doesn't send the message that the Horde is not OK with all the going ons.

    And the problem is that these things are literally only brought up in A Good War. Everywhere else, everyone's along for the ride with at best some generic dialog about how the Alliance are meanies. Some NPCs like Rexxar, Garona and Voss give different reasons for why they come, most being nonsensical/out of character.

    My point is, Blizzard is trying to have their cake and eat it too, by having the Horde be a wide spectrum of cultures and morality that just so happen, with two exceptions, to all be on board a Warchief that should, for many reasons, be extremely controversial. They try to cater to the people who like Thrall's Horde and the Sylvanas fans who want to watch the world burn at once, and it's not working.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The Trump example isn't exactly amazing considering how much criticism he gets.

    I'm not saying the Horde should start a second SoO the moment she steps out of line, but having radio silence outside of two NPCs that have done nothing thus far doesn't send the message that the Horde is not OK with all the going ons.

    And the problem is that these things are literally only brought up in A Good War. Everywhere else, everyone's along for the ride with at best some generic dialog about how the Alliance are meanies. Some NPCs like Rexxar, Garona and Voss give different reasons for why they come, most being nonsensical/out of character.

    My point is, Blizzard is trying to have their cake and eat it too, by having the Horde be a wide spectrum of cultures and morality that just so happen, with two exceptions, to all be on board a Warchief that should, for many reasons, be extremely controversial. They try to cater to the people who like Thrall's Horde and the Sylvanas fans who want to watch the world burn at once, and it's not working.
    if you think sylvanas doesnt get criticism just look at this forum...

    we are representing our factions are we not?

    do you think blizzard shouldve added an "I liek sylvanas" " I dont like sylvanas" dialogue option to every single npc?
    and I think flat out abandoning the horde mid war doesnt count as "done nothing" for saurfang
    as for baine, what is he gonna do? he's a giant pussy



    I agree on garona being sort of out of character(but I mean where is she gonna go? the alliance will have nothing to do with her, she just playing the long game), but voss? it's plainly obvious she has ulterior motives, and has very good reasons for sticking with the horde for now.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-08-23 at 01:46 AM.

  7. #67
    Banned Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    We can we not turn every setting into 40K? Look, a dose of grimdark is nice and all, but that setting also has more than its fair share of spectacularly dumbass shit and having everyone be a grimderp genocidal maniac gets tiring after a while. Warhammer Fantasy is more to my taste, it has a greater spectrum of morality, if you want to be the goody two shoes High Elves you can, if you want to be baby eaters the Dark Elves or Skaven exist, and you have factions like Empire, Tomb Kings and lizards serving as more flawed in-betweens.
    Yeah I know. I guess there just has to be that one fictional universe that gets away with ridiculousness by turning up PATHOS to the maximum and still be cool. And yes I enjoy FB too Though AoS feels weird, with sigmarines and shit.

  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    A setting without one dimensional, morally flawless lawful good characters ? BRUTHA WAT IS DIS ?
    Mostly we just have angsty edgy characters that are badly written. Sylvanas is one example of letting a developers fap bait become the main character and having that developer mirror his jerk sensibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Mostly we just have angsty edgy characters that are badly written. Sylvanas is one example of letting a developers fap bait become the main character and having that developer mirror his jerk sensibilities.
    how is she badly written though?

    she's acting exactly like sylvanas would.

    just because you dont like what she's doing doesn't mean it's badly written

    doN't get me wrong there are a lot of badly written aspects of BFA, but sylvanas is not one of them.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Archeus9 View Post
    The problem is that Blizzard writes WarCraft 1+2 Horde and then has the guts to tell everyone that it's the misunderstood dindu WarCraft 3/Vanilla Horde.
    this
    /10 chars

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    could it be that the horde is not one homogenous entity and has different characters in it with varying degrees between those two extremes?

    should I call the entire alliance petty bloodthirsty suicidal psycopaths because you guys have genn?

    Sure sylvanas is being unreasonable (understatement of the century) but you would be too if a sniveling dog robbed you and your people's chance at immortality.
    Why is he pyscopath just bc he doesnt take shit from undead after they killed his son.. same analogy i saw for jaina when she stopped being mary sue after tragedy she witnessed and started to think about consequences of her actions.. maybe father was right after cause he fought 2 wars

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Archeus9 View Post
    Except WoD basically confirmed that orcs were always genocidal, they just lacked the means to do it. If you give them demon blood/goblin technology, they start killing everything around them.
    I think all WOD confirmed was Blizzard knows how to bury what was an amazing concept with an incredible amount of excitement and build-up towards it. Lets kill off half of the Warlords before you hit max level, delete half the story and half-assed patch it together, give you a selfie camera for the first major patch and then change the entire story to make the original villian of the expansion suddenly become an ally, throw in a pre-legion raid and have fun raiding it for 1 and a half years while we work on next expansion.

    I'm not really sure we can count on WOD as anything to do with the writing of Orcs, it was an abandoned mess they tried to bandaid fix to keep people busy while they worked on the big Legion project.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Yeah I know. I guess there just has to be that one fictional universe that gets away with ridiculousness by turning up PATHOS to the maximum and still be cool. And yes I enjoy FB too Though AoS feels weird, with sigmarines and shit.
    Of course, I'm fine with 40k being as completely over the top as it is, it's a setting trademark and it does it well most of the time. Warcraft isn't like that, and I'd prefer is it stuck to WC3's grey vs black morality than the black vs white we have today.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    this
    /10 chars

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why is he pyscopath just bc he doesnt take shit from undead after they killed his son.. same analogy i saw for jaina when she stopped being mary sue after tragedy she witnessed and started to think about consequences of her actions.. maybe father was right after cause he fought 2 wars
    --- snip ---

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2018-08-23 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Received Infraction

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    If we're going to be the WCII Horde, why couldn't we have just done it with Garrosh?
    Because Garrosh was mean
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    Because Garrosh was mean
    plus that small insignificant thing of becoming the servant of an old god, and kicking everyone but orcs out of "his horde"

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Archeus9 View Post
    Except WoD basically confirmed that orcs were always genocidal, they just lacked the means to do it. If you give them demon blood/goblin technology, they start killing everything around them.
    Draenei, too. Albeit fel or the light

  17. #77
    Banned Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    plus that small insignificant thing of becoming the servant of an old god, and kicking everyone but orcs out of "his horde"
    He didn't serve Y'Shaarj, Y'Shaarj was dead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Of course, I'm fine with 40k being as completely over the top as it is, it's a setting trademark and it does it well most of the time. Warcraft isn't like that, and I'd prefer is it stuck to WC3's grey vs black morality than the black vs white we have today.
    I'd rather it was grey vs grey, but it's impossible for the Alliance to make a step to the side from sunshine, friendship, and rainbows.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    He didn't serve Y'Shaarj, Y'Shaarj was dead.
    pretty sure things with a beating heart are not dead

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    plus that small insignificant thing of becoming the servant of an old god, and kicking everyone but orcs out of "his horde"
    False. The "True Horde" happened in 5.4, by 5.3 a significant chunk of the Horde were in open rebellion (in part, because Garrosh deviated too much from the "New Horde" for their liking).

    Also, Blizzard stated he was never corrupted. But hey, have fun arguing against canon, I guess.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    False. The "True Horde" happened in 5.4, by 5.3 a significant chunk of the Horde were in open rebellion (in part, because Garrosh deviated too much from the "New Horde" for their liking).

    Also, Blizzard stated he was never corrupted. But hey, have fun arguing against canon, I guess.
    except garrosh has started his "true horde" way before 5.4 he just didnt full on secede yet, he was putting "lesser" races in ghettos, murdering his own people, etc.

    and I never said he was corrupted, but using old god powers for your own gains in very unseemly manners is a big nono.
    and it never comes without a cost, yshar'j was definitely whispering sweet nothings in his ears, he was completely out of it by the time SOO was over. just look at him in his last phase lol.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-08-23 at 03:21 AM.

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