PSA: The Devs are never going to listen to "the Fans" if you constantly shit on them

[clevin]

People on forums (read: you and your pal Wildberry) have a hard time understanding that just because YOU feel a certain way, and people ont he forums will agree wit you, doesn't mean that the community as a whole feels that way. This is why forum outrage isn't the end all be all to what the devs should 'fix' or what is 'broken'.

The inverse is true also. You don't know that they aren't representative of how the community feels, so get off your high horse about that one.

[Hexme]

Sorry but Blizzard deserves every flack they've been getting recently. They don't listen and if they do, they act like a spoiled kid after you tell them to do their chores.

Let's go down the list of all of the fubar things Blizzard has done recently..

-The time gating fiasco of Legion, so take your pick(s) on this one from the AP grind, flying, quests (**** those broken shore time gates), class halls (yea the druid one sucked ****) and the list goes on.

-Allied races Legion, K whoever thought of this please DIAF. Literally no other MMO does this so don't give me that piss poor "you need to earn it" speech like you are some MMO vet and not a blind Blizzard fangirl. Did you earn the right to play a Worgen, Goblin, BE, Panda or Draenei? LOL NO, you bought the damn expansion and proceeded to play those new races." But but the allied races are new too!!" no they are not, they literally have the same idle, skeletal structures and animations of other races.."But but they start at lvl 20!!!", so? DK's start out at lvl 55 (worgen, draenei, goblins and BE can be them as well) so yea lvl 55 > lvl 20. "Bu..." shut up, DH start at lvl 98 and BE can be them. The only requirements for a DH is a max lvl character (pre Legion). If they want Allied races to be unlocked by having a high lvl character be my guest, I don't care but asking people do weeks worth of rep grinds of re skinned characters is just EA lvls of cancer.

-BfA Allied races same as above except I'm trying to figure out were the *****are all of these Mag'Har orcs in the horde areas are and while alliance have some DID's in their story it's pretty random.

-WoD in general, the amount of cut content and half **** content put into that expansion is just mind numbing. I don't think I can list anything positive about that expansion except Alliance actually doing well in pvp (yay)

-Ilvl scaling mobs...mobs shouldn't be getting harder as you get gear, it's pointless for a RPG to make you get gear that doesn't make you feel like you're actually progressing.."But what about quest mobs that die to all those mythic geared players", oh no maybe make the mobs health increase by the number of people attacking it, make the respawn time quicker or don't have a dozen types of ilvls of gear, we don't need mythic, heroic, normal, lfr, wq, dungeon and add warforged/titanforged to every one of those categories you just fubard gear progression. So I just fixed your damn "impossible problem" Blizzard which it seems your devs can't do so I'll take their paychecks including Ions cause apparently they just can't brain storm ideas or ask the community on what they would do.

-Class balance and identity....Legion had Outlaw and Survival being useless for over 2 years and now it's painful to play certain classes like Shadow Priests or Ele Shaman for BfA. "But it's the start of an expansion", they were literally getting feedback for months and ignored issues.

So yea that's not even including War of Thorns, Sylvanas going Garrosh 2.0 or Kerrigan 2.0 or lets see how long tell we get anything on Worgen or Gobline models cause they've been saying it since WoD. If this was any other company it would get burned to the ground for the stupid choices they make, I have to say if Blizzard made Mass Effect 3 and did the same ending that they did people would praise those endings to the point "they are the best ever".

[sopeonaroap]

they do what activision tells them and it's been that way since cata. that's why they're doing basic tuning passes a month after launches now instead of in beta

[Culex]

They don't listen to us anyway, might as well shit on them and have some fun doing it.

[Mafic]

They don't listen to us anyway, might as well shit on them and have some fun doing it.

I refuse to give the diablo B team that satisfaction to be frank. Instead I prefer to point out their entire game design is fisher price lately and point out by industry standards they are pretty unprofessional.

[xanzul]

I refuse to give the diablo B team that satisfaction to be frank. Instead I prefer to point out their entire game design is fisher price lately and point out by industry standards they are pretty unprofessional.

So for the love of god stop fucking giving them money month after month year after year. You have been shitposting about Wow devs and the game for going on 5 years now. Move the fuck on or at least get some new material. If the devs aren't changing the game it is because of people like YOU who whine incessantly about the game but never actually stop paying for it. Why the fuck should they change the game with "fans" like you? You and all the other whiners have proven no matter what they do all of you will continue to pay for the game you bitch about endlessly. It isn't fanboys killing this game it is people like you.

[Verdugo]

It isn't fanboys killing this game it is people like you.

That is objectively wrong.

[Deleted]

Forum feedback is irrelevant tho. 90% of the players don't even visit the forums (just a number, but it's the vast majority). If they wanted real feedback, they'd poll us in-game over a long period of time...say start a poll about ilvl scaling mobs and end it 6 months from now. What the majority voted on is the way forward.

But, like others pointed out, they do what they want. Sometimes, like in the case of un-tradeable azerite gear, the flaws were so obvious that it's even hard to understand how it got through - there was no way in hell you'd ever want to keep a 325 azerite piece from a random heroic when they had 340 or higher available.

[Verdugo]

Forum feedback is irrelevant tho. 90% of the players don't even visit the forums (just a number, but it's the vast majority). If they wanted real feedback, they'd poll us in-game over a long period of time...say start a poll about ilvl scaling mobs and end it 6 months from now. What the majority voted on is the way forward.

But, like others pointed out, they do what they want. Sometimes, like in the case of un-tradeable azerite gear, the flaws were so obvious that it's even hard to understand how it got through - there was no way in hell you'd ever want to keep a 325 azerite piece from a random heroic when they had 340 or higher available.

They propably thought that traits would be sooooooooo important that people would want to keep them no matter what.

[fishoa]

They're never going to listen to the fans regardless when their boss orders to change or design the game a certain way to make shareholders happy. Might as well shit on them and make their time miserable as they keep ruining the game.

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They don't listen to us anyway, might as well shit on them and have some fun doing it.

Agreed 100%.

[Seezer]

Knowing Blizzard and their history I don't blame them (fans). How many times Blizzard openly lied to us promising something? How many times they shit on us? When players said them "no its bad" and they say "calm down child we know better" - only because they too high to admit their mistakes? How many times fans provided good and constructive feedback but Blizzard turns blind eye and fucks up something again?

I say fck them. They got what they deserved.

Haha get mad bitch

[WowIsDead64]

I know that "the toxic gaming community" is a trendy, hyperbolic statement, but in the case of the WoW community these past few years, I'd have to say it's fairly accurate.

It is fine to be unhappy, or upset, or simply disagree with the direction of things. For example; I don't think World PvP is ever going to work, and I wish Blizzard would stop trying to force it in.

That does NOT mean I'm researching every Blizzard employee who might work on World PvP, and drag their name through the mud, or try to make them look bad.

That kind of behavior is not only childish, but actively undermines what we're *ALL* trying to work towards; making WoW into the best possible game it can be.

Take a moment to consider; every employee at Blizzard has probably spent years working in their field, somehow landed a gig at one of the most prestigious and highly competitive developers on the face of the planet, and is probably working 40+ hours a week of constant stress. Maybe they have *some* input on the game, but more than likely, they don't. They're just trying to do the best work they can -- because, let's face it, nobody just "fell into a job" at Blizzard -- and the gaming industry is one of the harshest job-markets that exists.

How terrible must it be for such a person to briefly take a look at "what the fans are saying about their work", only to find themselves being *personally* attacked?

Do you think that's helping your cause? Do you think they're going to absorb that feedback?

No; they're going to get defensive, or tune-out entirely.

Now, maybe the SHARE-HOLDERS are paying attention to the negative feedback, but for your average artist or programmer, they're probably never even asked to interact with the community. And in the current state of things, it's probably best they don't even *look* at any of the community forums.

It's easy to say that "it's Blizzard's job to make the game their fans want to play", but I think it's equally important that the community creates an environment that developers -- from all levels who are working on the game, from artists, to writers, to programmers -- *WANT* to be a part of. We should be able to provide feedback in such a way that doesn't come across as us attacking them. Foster a community that they *WANT* to make happy, instead of one they feel is out to put their head on a pike.

So please, let's put down the pitchforks and torches, stop chugging all that haterade, and when discussing things we do or do not like about the game, let's do so with the idea that the person or people you're talking about could very well be reading your words, and if your views are truly important to you, you should aim to be as persuasive as possible, not hateful.

I believe in you.

Again. I've already explained it many times. Problem is: first I provide 100% constructive feedback. It's big article, where all problems are explained in constructive manner. Problem is - it's ignored. In worst case - they scoff over me, i.e. treat me as some sort of "bad" player or something like that. I don't demand all changes to be implemented, but at least I ask for some communication. Communication means, that if I provide some arguments - they should explain, why this arguments are bad and provide some counter-arguments. Not just "we are right and you're wrong" or, in most cases, complete radio silence. So, if I'm treated so badly, why should I treat them any better? That's the root of all toxic behavior - bad communication from THEIR side. They should listen for their playerbase in a first place - only then playbase will stop shouting at them.

I.e., yeah, they get, what they deserve.

[kamuimac]

Well, maybe the fans wouldn't be constantly shitting on the devs if the devs actually did a proper job. Like, you know, instead of flat out lying to your customers or permanently treating them like retarded toddlers... they could just do a satisfying job - maybe then people would stop shitting on them.

But sure, I guess it's the evil player base who's at fault, poor devs can't catch a break. Poor devs are literal the Dark Knights we need despite the shitty Gotam player base not deserving them. That's totally the situation we'Re in and, again, you can only blame the community for the current situation. Obviously.

exackly same shit happend in WoD

and this is why BfA is destined to be as garbage expansion as WoD

only and i say only departments that delivered were graphic designers and audio designers

rest of those retards should get fired starting with "you think you do but you dont" piece of human ...... .

[Doomchicken]

they do what activision tells them and it's been that way since cata. that's why they're doing basic tuning passes a month after launches now instead of in beta

Yeah because they never had class balance issues in vanilla tbc or wrath

[WowIsDead64]

For example: problem with flying. I've already told them numerous of times, why I need flying so much. Because what the point in killing mobs, if respawn rate is so high, that mobs respawn just 5 seconds after I kill them and provide no reward? Avoiding them - is only viable solution. And such high respawn rate comes from wrong outdoor design - so called claustrophobic design, where they make way too small locations with way too few mobs to kill, so this is needed to be compensated by high respawn rates. And some classes/specs have mechanics, that rely on getting out of combat and/or fighting with one mob at a time. So constant aggro/combat causes problems with playing on such classes/specs. And result is - they've never addressed this problem. Not even responded to me. Complete radio silence. And what I see on BFA's Alpha/Beta? Same broken quests. And all that lies about "Master content on a ground - get flying". All that lies about putting effort into flying and "earning" it only to be removed from actual content just 2-3 months after that. How can I trust them after that?

[Flarelaine]

Yeah, the team that managed to lose half of their customers in under a year really knows quite a bit about the long term health of the game.

Ooooh, do you have sub numbers? I've always been curious about sub numbers and mean ol' Blizzard doesn't share them anymore! Can you link them?

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they do what activision tells them and it's been that way since cata. that's why they're doing basic tuning passes a month after launches now instead of in beta

Has it been a month already? I could have sworn it was last week. Man, how time flies when you're having fun...

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All that lies about putting effort into flying and "earning" it only to be removed from actual content just 2-3 months after that. How can I trust them after that?

What region was flying removed from?

[Flarelaine]

Thing is - and that seems to elude many people - when you give respectful or any kind of feedback, you have zero idea if they listen. And when they listen, it doesn't mean they act on every single one of it.

And just think for a second: How is could they? Let us take warmodes: We have threads and responses like
-it is good
-it is bad
-it could use impovements, my suggestions are a, b and c
-I disagree with poster above, change a is ok, change b is stupid, change c needs adjustments
-I would like to see change b implemented, don't care a bout a and c
-10% bonus with warmode on is too much of a reward
-10% bonus with warmode on is too little of a reward

etc etc etc

If Blizzard takes ONE of these SEVEN suggestions, you will get SIX people screaming "they don't listen / care - they SHIT on the community" and the one guy who they listened to, doesn't even make a thread about how his feedback got implemented

Finally someone gets it.

[rda]

Thing is - and that seems to elude many people - when you give respectful or any kind of feedback, you have zero idea if they listen. And when they listen, it doesn't mean they act on every single one of it.

You see what they do after and it is apparent that they don't listen because even the most apparent breakage = bugs for which nobody would ever have any hesitation to say that they are bugs, do not get addressed. They do react to feedback but only in fixed windows right after they release something big or right after they have been bashed a lot on the forums / in the media. Then they go and react to repeats of the same reports they had for 6 months, doing the things they should have been doing 6 months ago. That's the picture.

[thottstation]

Someone doesn't remember Real-ID forcing people to use their REAL NAMES on the WoW forums.

But my name really is Deathblood Blackaxe (July 2010)




The devs literally reversed course because the fans were MAD AS HELL and constantly shit on them.

[Prokne]

The devs do listen, they just listen to the masses, and large amounts of feedback, they use statistics, not feelings.

It's funny people still think the Devs listen or read feedback on forums or even the mechanisms they created to receive feedback. When people submit reports on beta tests that things are broken and then they are not fixed (and I mean they were really broken), you know they aren't listening. All these things are are catharsis relievers designed to give the players a way to release angst by thinking what they say in feedback matters.

Blizzard's attitude for a long time has been that they know better than the players and are creating games to be played the way they want people to play them. The only time they change is when they see some internal numbers falling where they don't want them.