[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Gibblewink]

Oh he gives us facts quite regularly; only problem being that they consistently counter his claims

[Kallisto]

Am I missing something? Why are you not counting GSK & AstraZeneca? GSK is British, AstraZeneca is British/Swedish?

GSK's revenue ($42.05bn) was over 50% higher than Bayer's ($27.76bn) in 2017.

In fact, if you look at the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ies_by_revenue

It's dominated completely by non-EU companies (sort by 2017).

And I'm not sure what broader point it is you're making?

You, like Dribbles, want a hard Brexit? You want our esteemed leaders to fail to reach an agreement? You actively want to see a disruption in the flow of goods to and from the UK? No-one in the EU would suffer any hardship from delays in accessing e.g., GSK products? Really?

Of course we know that the EU holds the upper hand. But you're being disingenuous by spinning it, as you have done above, as if a hard Brexit is of (ultimately) no loss to the EU.

This is lose / lose. Yes, it will be significantly worse (in my opinion) for the UK but don't pretend it's a one way track. That's nonsensical.

Eh I thought GSK was bought out by J&J for soe reason.

No I don't want hard brexit, quite the opposite I want goverment to basically turn around and say "We took it under advisement, since the vote was advisery. We come to the decision that Brexit is absolutely ludicrous and we're not doing it. Part of a representative Democracy is to know when not to shoot ourselves in the foot on the whim of the ill informed."

I'm not saying EU won't be hurt, but it won't be anything other than a bee sting for them compared to for us a complete mangled leg.

[ati87]

Eh I thought GSK was bought out by J&J for soe reason.

No I don't want hard brexit, quite the opposite I want goverment to basically turn around and say "We took it under advisement, since the vote was advisery. We come to the decision that Brexit is absolutely ludicrous and we're not doing it. Part of a representative Democracy is to know when not to shoot ourselves in the foot on the whim of the ill informed."

I'm not saying EU won't be hurt, but it won't be anything other than a bee sting for them compared to for us a complete mangled leg.

Ignoring the political context of the British side the EU would never accept the reversal of Brexit without something in return.

[Slant]

Ignoring the political context of the British side the EU would never accept the reversal of Brexit without something in return.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think they would be happy with some token gestures.

[Gibblewink]

Unless there was some form of capitulation on behalf of the brexiteers I sort of doubt it as that could mean a repeat in a few years time. Barring a massive shift in public opinion I'm pretty sure the UK will spend at least a few years in some sort of "We're still trying to sort this out" limbo or just flat out trip in their shoelaces and Brexit hard, before coming to their senses.

The EU can't live with article 50 being invoked left and right just so countries can try and get a better deal at the expense of the rest.

[Noradin]

What? We only gave them 1 little upstart who wanted to be a German and later became a pilitician, but that was never planned.
Unless we argue which composer was german/austrian we get along famously.

There is no sense to argue about any of those because neither state was a thing back when they were around.

[Slant]

Unless there was some form of capitulation on behalf of the brexiteers I sort of doubt it as that could mean a repeat in a few years time. Barring a massive shift in public opinion I'm pretty sure the UK will spend at least a few years in some sort of "We're still trying to sort this out" limbo or just flat out trip in their shoelaces and Brexit hard, before coming to their senses.

The EU can't live with article 50 being invoked left and right just so countries can try and get a better deal at the expense of the rest.

No, the EU can't live with that. I agree. That's why the move of the banking oversight and the pharmaceutical oversight agencies to mainland Europe are done deals, regardless of what happens with Brexit. With token gestures I mean a rebate or two being sacrificed, but what else do you want Britain to do?

- - - Updated - - -

There is no sense to argue about any of those because neither state was a thing back when they were around.

Yeah, well. Either way, Austria is family. It's like you're asking to choose between family and a best friend.

Heck, they even let us use their anthem.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Yanis Varoufakis writes:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...holds-the-keys

Am interested in a europhile's counterpoint to this.

Also from any actual Greeks: is it as bad as he paints it?

wages reduced by 40%, pensions by 45%, the minimum wage by 30%, NHS spending by 32%. The UK would now be the wasteland of Europe, just as Greece is today.

Is this an accurate representation?

And in summary:

after having bailed out French and German banks at the expense of Europe’s poorest citizens, and after having turned Greece into a debtor’s prison, last week Greece’s creditors decided to declare victory. Having put Greece into a coma, they made it permanent and declared it “stability”: they pushed our people off a cliff and celebrated their bounce off the hard rock of a great depression as proof of “recovery”. To quote Tacitus, they made a desert and called it peace.

Pretty damning indictment.

How do our Corbynistas feel about this? Is this the reason you voted to Leave?

[Pann]

Yanis Varoufakis writes:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...holds-the-keys

Am interested in a europhile's counterpoint to this.

Also from any actual Greeks: is it as bad as he paints it?

wages reduced by 40%, pensions by 45%, the minimum wage by 30%, NHS spending by 32%. The UK would now be the wasteland of Europe, just as Greece is today.

Is this an accurate representation?

And in summary:

after having bailed out French and German banks at the expense of Europe’s poorest citizens, and after having turned Greece into a debtor’s prison, last week Greece’s creditors decided to declare victory. Having put Greece into a coma, they made it permanent and declared it “stability”: they pushed our people off a cliff and celebrated their bounce off the hard rock of a great depression as proof of “recovery”. To quote Tacitus, they made a desert and called it peace.

Pretty damning indictment.

How do our Corbynistas feel about this? Is this the reason you voted to Leave?

The situation in the Southern member states is not particularly rosy but I am not sure that Varoufakis is the most impartial source when it comes to Greece's financial woes and the EU but from my, albeit limited, understanding there is some truth in the article. Ultimately Greece never should have joined the Euro and as a result its own problems have been magnified however it is now in a position that leaving the Euro would be an even worse situation than it currently finds itself in.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Ultimately Greece never should have joined the Euro and as a result its own problems have been magnified however it is now in a position that leaving the Euro would be an even worse situation than it currently finds itself in.

Yes, absolutely. In my mind, another reason why the Euro project deserves much scrutiny and also much criticism.

But - would defaulting be worse? In Varoufakis' opinion: clearly not.

[Pann]

Yes, absolutely. In my mind, another reason why the Euro project deserves much scrutiny and also much criticism.

But - would defaulting be worse? In Varoufakis' opinion: clearly not.

Agreed.

I honestly don't know enough to give you a definitive answer (there is a lot of conflicting opinion and information out there) but I suspect from the fact that Greece has not defaulted that it would be.

[Slant]

Yanis Varoufakis writes:

The dude that tried to blackmail Germany and France? Yeah, I'm going to believe him about how Germany and France are keeping Greece in a prison. That's exactly what I'll believe. Please, blame Germany and France some more for your corrupt Government, Yanis.

[Mayhem]

Yes, absolutely. In my mind, another reason why the Euro project deserves much scrutiny and also much criticism.

But - would defaulting be worse? In Varoufakis' opinion: clearly not.

Defaulting would be worse. It would wipe out whatever little savings are left (including pensions), keep foreign investors at bay and considering greece doesn't run an export economy it would make it even harder for them to come back. It's somewhat of a similar argument dribbles dreams up in his unicorn cupcake fantasy world where eating is totally optional. However there are other methods of dealing with this fucked up situation. Neither party seems to have much interest in solving what lead to greece financial problems though and seem to be happy with a bad but stable situtation.

[Daethz]

Still not understanding why they don't just leave the EU, don't make any concessions, don't do crap, leave the EU, threaten military force if the EU retaliates and ask america for military assistance against the EU if needed, sign a Zero-Tariff deal with trump between our two nations and I bet trump would side completely with the UK.

[zealo]

Still not understanding why they don't just leave the EU, don't make any concessions, don't do crap, leave the EU, threaten military force if the EU retaliates and ask america for military assistance against the EU if needed, sign a Zero-Tariff deal with trump between our two nations and I bet trump would side completely with the UK.

They are leaving, the EU isn't trying to stop them from leaving. The negotiations are more about what the relationship between Britain and the continent will look like afterwards.

[segara82]

Yeah, well. Either way, Austria is family. It's like you're asking to choose between family and a best friend.

Heck, they even let us use their anthem.

In exchange a Viennese football club won the German Championship in '41.

[Daethz]

They are leaving, the EU isn't trying to stop them from leaving. The negotiations are more about what the relationship between Britain and the continent will look like afterwards.

Obviously playing civil & nice isn't working.

[Deleted]

Still not understanding why they don't just leave the EU, don't make any concessions, don't do crap, leave the EU, threaten military force if the EU retaliates and ask america for military assistance against the EU if needed, sign a Zero-Tariff deal with trump between our two nations and I bet trump would side completely with the UK.

first off all this is stupider than dribbles.

They can leave the EU with no deal if they want...but it destroys the economy and industry not to mention expats abroad will have no rights, the good friday agreement will be over, NHS will be dead.

And the UK couldn't hold Helmand, lets not pretend they can fight an actual war, or would want too (infact why am i even discussing this retarded point)

[Deleted]

Still not understanding why they don't just leave the EU, don't make any concessions, don't do crap, leave the EU, threaten military force if the EU retaliates and ask america for military assistance against the EU if needed, sign a Zero-Tariff deal with trump between our two nations and I bet trump would side completely with the UK.

Yeah lets drop relations with the rest of the continent and just become the 52nd State.

[ati87]

Yanis Varoufakis writes:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...holds-the-keys

Am interested in a europhile's counterpoint to this.

Also from any actual Greeks: is it as bad as he paints it?

wages reduced by 40%, pensions by 45%, the minimum wage by 30%, NHS spending by 32%. The UK would now be the wasteland of Europe, just as Greece is today.

Is this an accurate representation?

And in summary:

after having bailed out French and German banks at the expense of Europe’s poorest citizens, and after having turned Greece into a debtor’s prison, last week Greece’s creditors decided to declare victory. Having put Greece into a coma, they made it permanent and declared it “stability”: they pushed our people off a cliff and celebrated their bounce off the hard rock of a great depression as proof of “recovery”. To quote Tacitus, they made a desert and called it peace.

Pretty damning indictment.

How do our Corbynistas feel about this? Is this the reason you voted to Leave?

What would have been his answer towards the obvious financial problem Greece was having....Don't answer because we all know that his idea was to just continue the policies that brought Greece to the financial ruin in the first place.

Left or right Greece needed to cut (drastically) spending across the board since that achievement was never really achieved.