How is Guardian?

[Thumpa]

I see people complaining about the other specs like balance and feral but how is guardian tanking? I'm sure its still boring as ever with few buttons, but I'm wondering feel and performance wise.

[Rhaxus]

it's doing as one would expect, you can tank stuff, are easy to heal, but compared to before it is even more boring and when magic damage is involved you can suddenly drop.

out in the world you feel more solid than before and self healing effects like resto affinity, leech or azerite traits are way more potent than before. i wouldn't be surprised if guardians become actually decent at soloing stuff now

[siyX-]

‘Boring’ is subjective. The rotation isn’t complicated, and you don’t have a lot of utility but I don’t find Guarduan boring to play. I’ve done 9/9 Mythics, 340 ilvl and I do believe they are in a good place for the majority of content. I don’t think we have the tools to push high M+ keys, the lack of any type of consistent slow for kiting being the main reason, followed by low damage output compared to some other tanks. We mitigate damage very well, and rage is plentiful this expansion once you get a little bit of gear, and especially so if you like to gear for Haste and Crit. I haven’t done any raid testing or looked into the Uldir encounters much yet so it’s hard to comment on where we’ll fall when it comes to raid tanking. It would be nice to have Mark of Ursol back though as you are simply at the healers mercy entirely when it comes to heavy magic damage.

[cparle87]

it's doing as one would expect, you can tank stuff, are easy to heal, but compared to before it is even more boring and when magic damage is involved you can suddenly drop.

out in the world you feel more solid than before and self healing effects like resto affinity, leech or azerite traits are way more potent than before. i wouldn't be surprised if guardians become actually decent at soloing stuff now

Gotta take pulverize, it's really our only defense to magic since mark of ursorc was removed. Frenzied regen got nerfed for the... third expansion in a row. I should be used to this by now.

[Animalhouse]

I see people complaining about the other specs like balance and feral but how is guardian tanking? I'm sure its still boring as ever with few buttons, but I'm wondering feel and performance wise.

I am enjoying Guardian tank. Threat is HORRIBLE! Guardian does feel very tanky and smoothe as it should but as stated above, there is a hole with magic defense and that is only mitigated by pulverize...and this creates a big problem, pulverize is now madatory imo because of it. I would like to try another talent but I would be a fool to do so. Blizz might as well delete the other 2 options. Single target damage is bad on guardian and there needs to be a major buff on mangle, not some bullshit 10% damage buff but 35-40%. Maul needs a complete rework. They increased its damage to make it more attractive to use but with layered mane, you would be foolish to waste rage on maul when IF that stacks also buffs agility with the LM azerite trait.

Sometimes I wonder if the devs just don't even fucking play some specs/classes outside of sims.

Note: Bear health needs to be higher. It has always been staple of the spec to have larger health pool but I am seeing Vengeance DH in all 310 with a couple 320 pieces with 150k health and when I go into bear at 338 ilvl am at 180k. The class disparity is bad. I feel locked into my druid as main but If I didn't feel that way, prot pally would have been my tank of choice. I hate op DH players or I would say DH but that is being a sellout.

[Yuqii]

I am enjoying Guardian quite a bit and I don't find it boring at all.

I use Rend and Tear rather than Pulverize. 6% reduction versus 9 is not a bad trade off considering it comes with 6 percent extra damage. I haven't had any issues with Magic damage so far and caster mobs are easy enough to interrupt/silence anyway. Not standing in fire and making good use of line of sight is also a good way to avoid magic damage. With Restoration Affinity, if I'm ever not getting meleed I can Swiftmend myself (or anybody else) which is huge and when combined with Typhoon, I can knock back all of the Melee mobs, Swiftmend myself, Wild Growth the group, pop a couple of Rejuvs and back into Bear form. There are so many boss fights where the boss just flat out stops hitting for 3-5 seconds and I can spot heal a DPS from 50 percent to 100 in one Swiftmend.

I don't have any issues with threat (assuming that DPS hit the skull, let me pull and get at least 1 Thrash off). I have been preferring Haste gear and Azerite Traits that deal damage. So far as been all good. I take Incarn which gets plenty of use on trash packs for massive burst AE threat and Rage generation. Bosses hit like wet noodles anyway so I end up dumping all of my Rage into Maul. Haven't had a DPS pull threat off me on a boss yet. I also use the Melee Darkmoon Deck.

So yeah, I've been doing fine with Threat and DPS. Enjoying the play style. I can root things, battle rez, spot heal. Survivability is fine, I can roll enough cooldowns through the "oh shit" moments easily. Like in Free Hold when 3 extra packs get pulled, pop Incran and just spam Thrash to get things under control then roll the rest of my CDs until we get through it. If CDs are running out, Typhoon the mobs back, start spot healing the group cause the Healer is struggling. The amount of things that Typhoon can interrupt and trivialise is ridiculous. Oh and we can pull from 40 yards and basically fully dot up the pack before they even reach us, makes it really easy to line of sight packs back into safety.

Layered Mane is strongest in big AE situations where you can constantly maintain 3+ stacks of Ironfur. Bosses don't really hit hard enough for it to be relevant and you just dump all of your rage into Mauls.

[ydraw]

Gotta take pulverize, it's really our only defense to magic since mark of ursorc was removed. Frenzied regen got nerfed for the... third expansion in a row. I should be used to this by now.

pulverize only gives 3% more magic reduction than Rend And Tear

The best way to deal with magic damage is simply avoidance gear. The vast majority of magic effects are AOE damage.

[Deleted]

The major difference between Pulverize and Rend and Tear is not the 3% between them, it's that Pulverize is a defensive % buff, Rend and Tear is on your target. Anything attacking from range that doesn't have your thrash on at 3 stacks isn't getting reduced. Even more importantly environmental damage (damage that has no caster/attacker ie. floor effects) can be reduced by Pulverize, it can't by Rend and Tear.

[ydraw]

The major difference between Pulverize and Rend and Tear is not the 3% between them, it's that Pulverize is a defensive % buff, Rend and Tear is on your target. Anything attacking from range that doesn't have your thrash on at 3 stacks isn't getting reduced. Even more importantly environmental damage (damage that has no caster/attacker ie. floor effects) can be reduced by Pulverize, it can't by Rend and Tear.

Both talents have pros and cons. Pulverise isn't significantly better, avoidance gear will make a lot more of a difference.

[Arlee]

The major difference between Pulverize and Rend and Tear is not the 3% between them, it's that Pulverize is a defensive % buff, Rend and Tear is on your target. Anything attacking from range that doesn't have your thrash on at 3 stacks isn't getting reduced. Even more importantly environmental damage (damage that has no caster/attacker ie. floor effects) can be reduced by Pulverize, it can't by Rend and Tear.

Why are you letting things sit at range casting at you? Either los or close the gap yourself. Things casting from range should be a rarity.

[Deleted]

Why are you letting things sit at range casting at you? Either los or close the gap yourself. Things casting from range should be a rarity.

You seem to be assuming I'm talking about trash mobs here. Anything with multiple bosses where they have to be split but still deal damage to you will be reduced by Pulverize but not by Rend and Tear. Think Demonic Inquisition in Tomb of Sargeras after you split them, while you're tanking Atrigan away from Belac all of Belac's uninterruptable damage would be reduced by Pulverize.

To make it clear I agree with ydraw that both talents have pros and cons, however Pulverize is definitely the stronger choice defensively and for single target damage. Rend and Tear's only significant advantage is in sustained aoe damage.

[Arlee]

You seem to be assuming I'm talking about trash mobs here. Anything with multiple bosses where they have to be split but still deal damage to you will be reduced by Pulverize but not by Rend and Tear. Think Demonic Inquisition in Tomb of Sargeras after you split them, while you're tanking Atrigan away from Belac all of Belac's uninterruptable damage would be reduced by Pulverize.

To make it clear I agree with ydraw that both talents have pros and cons, however Pulverize is definitely the stronger choice defensively and for single target damage. Rend and Tear's only significant advantage is in sustained aoe damage.

Ok so you are talking about a few specific situations in which pulverize is better than Rend and Tear. I read your previous post to be indicating these situations come up constantly so it's always better since you often won't be able to get Thrash on things. This makes a a lot more sense. Rend and Tear also has some advantage because it's not something a player has to think about whereas to get the full benefit of Pulverize you have to use it correctly. For some people that's not possible/they can't be bothered.

I tend to go more situational and switch between the two depending on the fight (raiding) or depending on the dungeon since we can't change talents in M+ anymore. But honestly the choice between the two really comes down to personal preference for most players.

[Teph]

Overall fine. Could need a damage buff though. Got both a druid and dk at ilvl 340 and the dk easily does 50% more dmg overall than the bear. Also more than 100% more dmg on big aoe packs. No offensive cds is really annoying as a bear.

Also nearly no utility makes bear feel like shit for m+.

[KainneAbsolute]

Which talent build are you using? I was ok on heroic dungeons and i got better gear and if i distract a little i can die.

[Eapoe]

I enjoy it, but it definitely has some flaws.
1). Threat gen feels terrible. At 332 ilvl, I’m constantly having to use taunt thru pulls, sometimes even from healer aggro. It almost feels like Thrash and Swipe have the same threat gen in bear form as they would if you were a feral, just slightly higher. Single target when I can Mangle threat is a nonfactor.
2). Magic damage mitigation is horrible. You can tank 4-5 elites and, yes, depending on gear you might have to use Survival Instincts to live, but throw 2 casters vs those 4-5 melee and suddenly you’re freaking out, wishing Mighty Bash had a shorter CD, begging for interrupts/cc from your group, using every CD you have available and/or wishing your healer has something up their sleeve. (Okay, it’s not that bad but it’s close).
3). The survivability talents/traits are so small they are almost worthless. Resto affinity is barely noticeable outside of world content, and it’s the same with azerite traits.
Overall, it’s not bad, but when I was 305 ilvl I felt like I shouldn’t be tanking due to how squishy I felt. Now that I’m 332, it’s evened out a bit, but there’s still a lot of oh shit moments and you just don’t have the same tankiness you used to thru an xpac (even at the beginning). I think it could use a few tweaks to improve it, but at the beginning of an xpac, what couldn’t?

[Deleted]

Guys stop play mastery-versa and go to hast-versa, I'm 347 ilvl and i had 0 issue with threat or survivability. Yes i don't had 230k hp i only had 200k, you just need to use your cd at the right time.

[exochaft]

Guys stop play mastery-versa and go to hast-versa, I'm 347 ilvl and i had 0 issue with threat or survivability. Yes i don't had 230k hp i only had 200k, you just need to use your cd at the right time.

I tend to prioritize haste, as well... although I also boomkin, so it makes gearing easier. I enjoy rocking two Darkmoon decks, as well, since one is really good for DPS and the other takes care of that extra oomph of HP if necessary (the occasional crit heals for 10-20k+ a pop are nice, too).

The only time I've really had threat issues tanking is when I was sub-340 ilvl doing a normal dungeon against a sub-115 lvl decked out DPSer, or if a DH blows Eyebeam/Fel Barrage or a warrior blows Bladestorm before I can even get the first hit in. As I've been playing through heroics and mythics on my DPS alts, almost every single bear that has had threat issues has been playing incorrectly in multiple ways, either offensively or defensively. I've lost count of how many bears I've seen in mythics with constantly full rage bars, low usage of Thrash/Mangle, and poor uptime/application of Moonfire. If you have DPSers in your group that play extremely well and are decked out while the bear tank is very undergeared, I can understand some threat issues... but usually a DPSer of that caliber knows how to manage threat so it's not an issue to your group.

[Knolan]

I would rather swipe was stronger and had a CD, sometimes my fingers hurt for the spam and it is annoying when you are tired/sleepy, a lot of time I find myself spamming it mindlessly for a while when it is late. Probably I am just getting old =(

Other than that, I had some threat issues in the start, sometimes I still do (geared arms/DH can take my aggro sometimes), so I just replace one of my traits for one that gives me some extra damage and it is fine.

[Volitar]

Worst snap threat out of all the tanks. Annoying for dungeons.