Buff to arms mastery confirmed!

[Chowder]

The EU Warrior forums surrounding the change seem to be roughly.
4. OMG Arms has no survival
5. OMG 3v3 doesn't matter a ret killed me

Hes not wrong there, warmode made open pvp an integral part of the game now, every class should be viable solo.

[Useful]

I was lucky enough with drops and got all 3 azerite mastery traits + almost all slots with mastery and mastery enchant. Default mastery is 200% with 330 ilvl. Highest proc i was able to get wass 500% on a dummy within 3 minute window. Average mastery is 250%. On highest proc deep wounds was ticking 5000. Which is a subject to future nerfs imho.

[Deleted]

Congratulations on calling yourself "lucky" when still stacking the worst stat for arms warriors on every piece of gear AND taking one of the worst azerite traits on every piece of azerite gear.

[Deleted]

ITT A bunch of random warriors who want to use a cherry picked BiS Sim to pretend like their damage was nerfed a whole 8% so that they can cry that the sky is falling. Realistically it was a slight nerf for any of you and by the time you dust off the higher ilvl pieces with mastery on it that you passed on beforehand it'll be even less so. Blizzard did us all a favor by not making gearing for the foreseeable future to be a huge pain in the ass. It definitely wasn't the best solution, but it's better than mastery being literally useless. Tuning can always come later. You didn't have anywhere close to as optimal gear as in the BiS Sim and you weren't going to have it. At least not by the time you're in raids passing on gear much higher in ilvl just because it had mastery on it while the rest of the raids are swimming in loot.

Yeah Its "Cherry picked", that sim is with pre raid items with alot of options for equal aquireable gear with haste/crit, haste/vers. You do realise I hope that that Sim also shows the absolute minimum of what that nerf did to warriors? Since it never misses out on auto attacks etc. In reality the nerf is probably more accurate to around 10% since people during fights etc will Always lose out on some auto attacks but rarely miss their rotation. And getting BiS in this game is extremly easy if you have a group of friends playing where you can exchange trinkets and rings etc with eachother or even armor if they are wearing the same pieces to each of your BiS things since different classes has different stats they want to focus on.

The nerf was unnecessary and flat out not needed. Warriors are a bottom tier class in all regards, they're not on the absolute bottom but they are there with druids and dk's. But atleast these classes have something that they can do good. DK(Tank) Druid(Heal).

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The EU Warrior forums surrounding the change seem to be roughly.

1. OMG 14% nerf, DW is useless.
2. OMG All we had was damage and now we don't even have that
3. Deep Wounds does no damage.
4. OMG Arms has no survival
5. OMG 3v3 doesn't matter a ret killed me
6. OMG Warrior is the worst state ever.
7. OMG Mastery so bad
8. OMG where is the self healing (in a mastery change thread)
9. OMG I can't even survive a dungeon as Prot and get kicked (because why not throw that in there guys)


The best part is the guy who had almost full mastery gear equipped complaining about the mastery change, somehow fixing all his broken gear is a damage nerf... It's like if you want to find the bottom of the barrel of WoW players you go to the class forums and watch them blame the game for every damage meter they didn't top and every duel they didn't win.

I'm just curious are you desputing those claims and saying that warriors are in a good place right now? While I can understand people getting annoyed by hearing these things, it doesnt make it less true. If you don't Think any of the things you have stated are true, then you're not playing a warrior atm.

See you're one of these guys, take your gear off and have a look how much Mastery you have.. Oh yeah, 80% base mastery now, you have more mastery now while naked than you would have had in full Mastery gear before the change.

Wow 80% base mastery so good you guys! You people keep forgetting that even after the nerf, THE STAT IS STILL GARBAGE AND WILL NOT BE ON ANY ARMS WARRIORS GEAR.
The gearing has not changed, try to wrap your head around that. Mastery is still garbage and will not be on any gear if you can chose otherwise. we were fine with the options of haste/crit and haste/vers. haste/mastery is the same as haste/vers in scaling. Its like you people are trying to play stupid, the change CHANGED nothing, thats the entire problem. Arms warriors are in the same place as before except for them losing 14% damage on all of their abilities..... The sims are optimal and 8% of the dps reduction is even greater in reality since we do not hit with all of our auto attacks. Its a huge nerf stop trying to defend it and instead try to argument just why it was needed to drop a huge nerf bat on an already struggling class.

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Congratulations on calling yourself "lucky" when still stacking the worst stat for arms warriors on every piece of gear AND taking one of the worst azerite traits on every piece of azerite gear.

Ignore them, they can't seem to understand the most simple things. They just ignore the fact that mastery is still complete shit. Its like talking to people who believe the Earth is flat.

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Balanced by the Mastery getting buffed, so in the end Arm's damage is very similar to what it was before the hotfix if you gear properly. It's like ya'll see a -% number then go crazy. The spec performs fine and will be welcome in anything but the highest keys, where the problem is not DPS at all but defensive/utility toolkits.

Its not balanced by the damn mastery getting buffed. The mastery buff made it go from 0.2 scaling to 1.4 which is very close to versatility. It made a useless stat become a really bad stat. Haste and crit is still WAY above.

This only nerfs padding on M+ trash and little else. Which you can still do with the right Azerite traits. Oh, and maybe it affects PvP, but I neither know nor care about PvP.

Its nice that people who dont care about 1/2 of the game says that the nerf is fine, and yeah i don't care about DPS on trash in dungeons it extremly irrelevant since mages, paladins, rogues did the same amount of dps and they didn't get a single nerf even tho they're top tier classes that wreck everything Wpvp/Arena. But I mean lets nerf one of the most struggling classes, lets kick the dying corpse.

Blizzard has even confirmed that didn't manage to balance warriors before the release, with them throwing back a super nerfed ignore pain for protection thats close to unsable atm (varies on situation).

[Useful]

the rage is real. why are u so on fire. I like to expiriment, u like to shit on the fan it seems.

[Bigbazz]

@Meatsack

You cannot realistically actually gear all Crit/Haste/Verse, you will be forced to take mastery or suffer lower ilvl pieces because items with Mastery would simply not be usable even with the non-linear scaling of STR from ilvl (vs linear secondaries), leaving you in a really gimped situation of finding it difficult to gear. You also have to look past the short term first week of the expansion and look at the long term, Blizzard cannot leave a stat completely broken for a class for an entire expansion, class balancing at the start of an expansion is also inevitable, it could yet be buffed further.

The 80% base mastery you now have is a buff to your dps and cannot be ignored when looking at the overall dps lost with the 14% nerf, nor should you ignore the future upgrades you might have had with mastery becoming usable items instead of pure trash.


As for the concerns of players on EU forums.. Given that I too am playing Arms Warrior, I too am doing dungeons and world PVP it's interesting how I am not experiencing the spec being weak in any way. Sure I can't take a Ret Paladin 1v1, that's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean the spec isn't exceptional at most everything else... It's especially interesting when a 2.7k rated Arena and top RBG player says "Arms is completely fine" and they reply that it's not valid because "So, what you are saying is that it's okay that PvP is balanced for arena only?".... They read what they want to read, if a high rated PVP says it's fine they assume all he does is log in and play arena, if a raider says it's fine they bring up 3v3 rating.. Whatever is convenient to continue whining.

Ultimately nobody wants to admit it's an L2P issue when they aren't coming out on top, and nobody that isn't coming out on top wants to be told their spec is actually very strong.

[Deleted]

@Meatsack

You cannot realistically actually gear all Crit/Haste/Verse, you will be forced to take mastery or suffer lower ilvl pieces because items with Mastery would simply not be usable even with the non-linear scaling of STR from ilvl (vs linear secondaries), leaving you in a really gimped situation of finding it difficult to gear. You also have to look past the short term first week of the expansion and look at the long term, Blizzard cannot leave a stat completely broken for a class for an entire expansion, class balancing at the start of an expansion is also inevitable, it could yet be buffed further.

The 80% base mastery you now have is a buff to your dps and cannot be ignored when looking at the overall dps lost with the 14% nerf, nor should you ignore the future upgrades you might have had with mastery becoming usable items instead of pure trash.


As for the concerns of players on EU forums.. Given that I too am playing Arms Warrior, I too am doing dungeons and world PVP it's interesting how I am not experiencing the spec being weak in any way. Sure I can't take a Ret Paladin 1v1, that's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean the spec isn't exceptional at most everything else... It's especially interesting when a 2.7k rated Arena and top RBG player says "Arms is completely fine" and they reply that it's not valid because "So, what you are saying is that it's okay that PvP is balanced for arena only?".... They read what they want to read, if a high rated PVP says it's fine they assume all he does is log in and play arena, if a raider says it's fine they bring up 3v3 rating.. Whatever is convenient to continue whining.

Ultimately nobody wants to admit it's an L2P issue when they aren't coming out on top, and nobody that isn't coming out on top wants to be told their spec is actually very strong.

Its like talking to a brickwall, are you immune to facts or what is the matter here? You actually could gear all Haste/crit/vers except for the neck ofcourse. And while i agree that the mastery needed to be changed the reduce in damage was super uncalled for. The 80% base mastery is ofcourse included in sims, did you think it was not? since you are saying that I ignored that fact. The numbers still doesn't fucking add up. I pretty much play everything and its true that in Pve it doesn't affect our damage so much that skill doesn't make up for it. But coming here claiming its a L2P issue while you have no clue about what skill rating I'm playing on is quite hilarious. I can destroy anyone in Wpvp but there are so many bad players out there so you can't use them as a factor. While I'm pvping with my friends whom probably is the top 1% of the pvpers in terms of skill in this game it becomes quite obvious how bad arms warriors are. Damage is in fact Everything the class have, We have no real cc, no real defensive cooldowns, no real sustain. Alot of our kit got fucking moved to Warmode talents which is pure bullshit. Give back disarm and spellreflect to every fucking spec pls..... People usually use the argument that "Warriors are good with support" which is one of the worst arguments in this game. Every single fucking class is good with support. Warriors are the only one that is heavily reliant on it. Go do some 1v1, 2v2 arena and you'll see that you'll hit a brick wall when your skill level equals to that of your oponents. It will become extremly diffucult to win against priests,rogues, mages, hunters, paladins etc etc as a warrior.

3v3 is the only scenario where everything Changes, Since then you have two classes which you can rely on for the things warriors lack. And then they become pretty good at pressuring. WITH DAMAGE, WHICH THEY NERFED. But its still ok.

So to conclude things, if new players ask me if they should play warriors I will answer them with. Sure but you'll be gargabe at everything except Trash dps in dungeons and 3v3. because to you thats good enough reasons for warriors to be gimped.

And since you have never reached high rated pvp content I'm going to assume you have no idea what you're talking about regarding pvp. You are refering to 1 player that has gotten high rating in fucking 3v3 a season where warriors was great. Perfect source btw. If you can reach 2200 rating please come back here and show your results. I can promise you that you will struggle ALOT

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the rage is real. why are u so on fire. I like to expiriment, u like to shit on the fan it seems.

I'm on fire because the hotfix was a brutal nerf, 8% in a perfect sim scenario (which will never occur) and even worse in more realistic scenarios lets say 10% since you can't hit all of your auto's. Its good that you experiment, but the math is pretty simple mastery is still a to bad of a stat to try to focus on atm. Hopefully they'll buff it up to haste/crits rating and then it might justify the reduction in damage. But atm don't gimp yourself unnecessarily.

[Bigbazz]

Its like talking to a brickwall, are you immune to facts or what is the matter here?

So you're not only emotionally attached and willfully ignorant to the facts yourself but you're also rude, nice. Pot kettle.

You actually could gear all Haste/crit/vers except for the neck ofcourse

What in the perfect world where you magically get all the perfect items you need with personal loot? Sure if you want to think that.

And while i agree that the mastery needed to be changed the reduce in damage was super uncalled for

No it wasn't, Arms was ridiculous and the mastery buff would have been boosting a spec that was a top 3 contender on ST, AOE and Cleave. It definitely wasn't "super uncalled for" to reduce Arms damage. If you didn't see this then L2p issue.

The 80% base mastery is ofcourse included in sims, did you think it was not? since you are saying that I ignored that fact.

If you're shouting 14% nerf to damage output you're ignoring that fact, so what's it gonna be? Since that's precisely what I talked about regarding plebs on the EU forums, and perhaps you if you want to join that group?

The numbers still doesn't fucking add up. I pretty much play everything and its true that in Pve it doesn't affect our damage so much that skill doesn't make up for it. But coming here claiming its a L2P issue while you have no clue about what skill rating I'm playing on is quite hilarious.

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing, Arms is fine, even Arms is "Overpowered" then I'm pretty sure that it's an L2P issue. I personally have been destroying fucking 95% of the players I've met in open world combat, and the biggest complaint from the plebs is that they can't win against anyone or anything in open world PVP 1v1... We're all playing the same class so L2P issue.

I don't know what skill level you play at, but somehow I see it pointing in a direction, feel free to prove me wrong.

can destroy anyone in Wpvp but there are so many bad players out there so you can't use them as a factor. While I'm pvping with my friends whom probably is the top 1% of the pvpers in terms of skill in this game it becomes quite obvious how bad arms warriors are.

Then why are the top 1% saying Arms is fine, including top 1% Arms Warriors? It only struggles in 1v1 combat and excells in group play, I'm fairly certain no ranked PVP'er wishes for the opposite, 3v3 and RBG's are the most important and relevant rated PVP content and you're gonna have to live with that.

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I'm on fire because the hotfix was a brutal nerf, 8% in a perfect sim scenario (which will never occur) and even worse in more realistic scenarios lets say 10% since you can't hit all of your auto's. Its good that you experiment, but the math is pretty simple mastery is still a to bad of a stat to try to focus on atm. Hopefully they'll buff it up to haste/crits rating and then it might justify the reduction in damage. But atm don't gimp yourself unnecessarily.

Why are you talking about 8% sims if all you care about is PVP. Why don't you reveal yourself as to which crybaby EU Warrior forum player you are so that we can get this charade out of the way.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Confirmed blizzad is full of idiots. Arms was fine, now they are doing even more damage. Fury on the other hand has problems. Love having to use WW twice or wait 0.5-1 sec for auto attack to bring enough rage for rampage

[Jastall]

@Meatsack

You cannot realistically actually gear all Crit/Haste/Verse, you will be forced to take mastery or suffer lower ilvl pieces because items with Mastery would simply not be usable even with the non-linear scaling of STR from ilvl (vs linear secondaries), leaving you in a really gimped situation of finding it difficult to gear. You also have to look past the short term first week of the expansion and look at the long term, Blizzard cannot leave a stat completely broken for a class for an entire expansion, class balancing at the start of an expansion is also inevitable, it could yet be buffed further.

The 80% base mastery you now have is a buff to your dps and cannot be ignored when looking at the overall dps lost with the 14% nerf, nor should you ignore the future upgrades you might have had with mastery becoming usable items instead of pure trash.


As for the concerns of players on EU forums.. Given that I too am playing Arms Warrior, I too am doing dungeons and world PVP it's interesting how I am not experiencing the spec being weak in any way. Sure I can't take a Ret Paladin 1v1, that's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean the spec isn't exceptional at most everything else... It's especially interesting when a 2.7k rated Arena and top RBG player says "Arms is completely fine" and they reply that it's not valid because "So, what you are saying is that it's okay that PvP is balanced for arena only?".... They read what they want to read, if a high rated PVP says it's fine they assume all he does is log in and play arena, if a raider says it's fine they bring up 3v3 rating.. Whatever is convenient to continue whining.

Ultimately nobody wants to admit it's an L2P issue when they aren't coming out on top, and nobody that isn't coming out on top wants to be told their spec is actually very strong.

Yeah, the only part of Arms that I feel is weak is self-healing. I'd kill for an Azerite trait mimicking the heal on MS we had during Legion. Otherwise it has good ST, amazing cleave, good aoe overall, great burst, decent defensives, great mobility and a fairly nice selection of traits apart from the woefully undertuned Executioner's Precision. Anyone who actually says Arms is underpowered needs to git gud or is fishing for buffs.

Fury can complain about tuning right now. Arms is more than fine.

[Deleted]

Arms is not only fine, but has some broken aspects (which is why we're having so much fun ofc).

Warbreaker will (or should) have it's base damage reduced, and arguably the Lord of War trait too.
Seismic Wave should get a HUGE bat - it's a passive trait that easily does half your damage on any add pull.

Plan around it, both in terms of stats and artifact-gear... if they don't change it, well, happy days with 5 arms Warriors on Vectus (and other fights)

[Deleted]

So you're not only emotionally attached and willfully ignorant to the facts yourself but you're also rude, nice. Pot kettle.

You are not providing any damn facts, you are just saying that 1 warrior 1 time said something on the forum that doesn't even have a gladiator title. All your pvp "experience" is from ganking people in Wpvp very credible... I don't know why I bother talking to someone who hasen't even reached 1600 arena rating. You don't even test things yourself you are just refering to what other people "said".

What in the perfect world where you magically get all the perfect items you need with personal loot? Sure if you want to think that.

Its quite easy, Maybe not to have Everything in 340, but to get 325 gear with perfect slots is a no brainer. easily achieved untill raid/pvp content is released.

No it wasn't, Arms was ridiculous and the mastery buff would have been boosting a spec that was a top 3 contender on ST, AOE and Cleave. It definitely wasn't "super uncalled for" to reduce Arms damage. If you didn't see this then L2p issue.

Then nerf their Aoe damage? Like who fucking cares if you do well on trash packs in dungeons, Have you played with Mages? DH? Paladins? Shamans? they are doing quite amazing aswell but they're not getting nerfed since why the fuck would you bother balancing a class around dungeon dps? when there is like 100 dps difference inbetween each class. (except for the classes thats really struggling ferals etc.)

If you're shouting 14% nerf to damage output you're ignoring that fact, so what's it gonna be? Since that's precisely what I talked about regarding plebs on the EU forums, and perhaps you if you want to join that group?

No? I've been saying around a 10% nerf having those things into account. You are still not going to gear mastery do you understand that? MASTERY IS BAD, Haste/crit is good there for when you are gearing you're pretty much not affected by this damn "hotfix" and thus its only a nerf nothing else. Thats the fact, its not discussable. Its math you can count it and test it and prove it, like several people have done myself included. You obviously haven't so I don't know why you giving your opinion on something you don't have a clue about.

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing, Arms is fine, even Arms is "Overpowered" then I'm pretty sure that it's an L2P issue. I personally have been destroying fucking 95% of the players I've met in open world combat, and the biggest complaint from the plebs is that they can't win against anyone or anything in open world PVP 1v1... We're all playing the same class so L2P issue.

This is HILARIOUS.

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing

All players? haha you are so delusional. you have 1 guy on the forum that said "It is fine" since he's probably playing alot of group play.
All players so so funny, you don't even have any credible source but you state something like that just proves how damn stupid you are. The fucking problem with warriors is that its the only class in this game that RELIES on others to fill their gaps. Only class that has this. No other class suffers this condition and blizzard are trying to do it even more apperant. Give us back our fucking pvp kit with spell reflect/disarm/enraged regenration etc so we can do shit on our own aswell. If they want to nerf the only thing we have which is damage atm then atleast give us something else to play around with. Maybe more then 1 cc? that every class instantly pvp trinkets because they know warriors doesn't have anything else. But please go and talk to the best warriros in the world and they'll say they don't really understand why it was 14% reduction in damage when the hotfix gave us about 80% base mastery, which is like a 2% increase to our damage. Maybee they should've reduced the arms damage with it dont know 2%? or 3-4%? no they dropped it with the biggest reduce to any class in a very long time.

Then why are the top 1% saying Arms is fine, including top 1% Arms Warriors? It only struggles in 1v1 combat and excells in group play, I'm fairly certain no ranked PVP'er wishes for the opposite, 3v3 and RBG's are the most important and relevant rated PVP content and you're gonna have to live with that.

This again, all the top warriors are saying this, source? Ooh nvm you're full of shit. Still only 1 guy on the forum that says its "fine" which translates to = I can still play it and have fun. 3v3 and RBG's are most important to some people, not everyone. It is usually 3v3 that is the most unbalanced aswell, since some classes can have crazy combo's thats uncounterable. But I mean not like i would assume that you would know since you've never done Arena on anything above 1500.

Why are you talking about 8% sims if all you care about is PVP.

I'm using the 8% sim as a starting point for my arguments since its in a perfect scenario. This is highly unrealistic so its going to be much higher as I've stated before since not all of our damage comes from Arms ability's/Deepwounds. So in pvp its a much worse nerf then it is in PVE which to you was the reason why they nerfed warriors, OP trash dungeon dps? Okay...

top 3 contender on ST, AOE and Cleave

[Deleted]

So you're not only emotionally attached and willfully ignorant to the facts yourself but you're also rude, nice. Pot kettle.

To which facts? You're not presenting any damn facts I provide numbers thats tested you just shit all over it while crying like an infant. Want to prove me wrong? Log into the game and do some testing, present the results.

What in the perfect world where you magically get all the perfect items you need with personal loot? Sure if you want to think that.

Getting perfect gear at itemlevel 325 is easy peacy, there are a BiS list out there with every part crit/haste except 1. then you just substitute it with mythic items each week. What's so hard about that? Gearing is extremly easy.

No it wasn't, Arms was ridiculous and the mastery buff would have been boosting a spec that was a top 3 contender on ST, AOE and Cleave. It definitely wasn't "super uncalled for" to reduce Arms damage. If you didn't see this then L2p issue.

The base mastery would've resulted in a 3% damage increase. And if its the AoE damage in dungeons thats to strong just nerf cleave and shit to counteract it? And lay of the execute/ms damage etc. Makes no sense, they never stated why they reduced the amount with 14% Its probably just a mistake on their part that will get fixed. But that doesn't mean that it doesnt need to be adressed. "L2P" issues coming from someone thats never played pvp on even the most basic levels is just so much double standards haha.

If you're shouting 14% nerf to damage output you're ignoring that fact, so what's it gonna be? Since that's precisely what I talked about regarding plebs on the EU forums, and perhaps you if you want to join that group?

You're not saying anything constructive on the forums, you're stating that 1 warrior said that arms are fine which equals to they still work. It doesn't mean you cant critique the nerf. the other classes which are alot stronger didn't get nerfed so why would a middle tier class get super nerfed? Makes little sense, in a pvp point of view atleast.

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing, Arms is fine, even Arms is "Overpowered" then I'm pretty sure that it's an L2P issue. I personally have been destroying fucking 95% of the players I've met in open world combat, and the biggest complaint from the plebs is that they can't win against anyone or anything in open world PVP 1v1... We're all playing the same class so L2P issue.

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing.

Wtf is this? Its just a blatant lie link the source to this! Ooh wait you're refering to the warrior that said it was fine in Rated bgs and 3v3 last expansion okay very relevant to this expansion. Stop making an ass of yourself by lying its just embarrassing.

I personally have been destroying fucking 95% of the players

Yeah I'm sure you're very successful ganking people in Wpvp its not very hard, its not either a credible proof of anything. But i will still doubt it since you don't seem to be doing pvp according to your achievements.

Then why are the top 1% saying Arms is fine, including top 1% Arms Warriors? It only struggles in 1v1 combat and excells in group play, I'm fairly certain no ranked PVP'er wishes for the opposite, 3v3 and RBG's are the most important and relevant rated PVP content and you're gonna have to live with that.

Here you go again with your lies. Source to all of the best players in the World thats playing warrior saying this please? Ooh wait you're so full of shit. Is this really how you try to make your points? By openly lying. Since you've never played arena let me tell you that 3v3 has a history of being the most unbalanced out of the other 2. A combination of classes has been uncounterable for such long times that people just eventually tierd of playing them. But let me tell you my main issue with Arms. Its the only class in this game that RELY on other classes to cover their weaknesses. No other class in this game suffers from this condition, and people are using as an argument like: Warriors are good with support hurr durr, Yeah? Like no other class are fucking good with support? Retarded argument. Give warriors back spell reflect, disarm, enraged regeneration/second wind. shattering throw etc to deal with other classes. Just make those things base skills that warriors always has. Then you can start tweak their damage.

Why are you talking about 8% sims if all you care about is PVP. Why don't you reveal yourself as to which crybaby EU Warrior forum player you are so that we can get this charade out of the way.

Obviously since it's so easy to test...... Its an ideal scenario like a target dummy. The real damage reduction is much worse when you put in things like cc/mobility etc which makes you miss out on tons of auto attacks. Making the ability damage nerf ALOT higher.

[Arbiter]

Its like talking to a brickwall, are you immune to facts or what is the matter here? You actually could gear all Haste/crit/vers except for the neck ofcourse. And while i agree that the mastery needed to be changed the reduce in damage was super uncalled for. The 80% base mastery is ofcourse included in sims, did you think it was not? since you are saying that I ignored that fact. The numbers still doesn't fucking add up. I pretty much play everything and its true that in Pve it doesn't affect our damage so much that skill doesn't make up for it. But coming here claiming its a L2P issue while you have no clue about what skill rating I'm playing on is quite hilarious. I can destroy anyone in Wpvp but there are so many bad players out there so you can't use them as a factor. While I'm pvping with my friends whom probably is the top 1% of the pvpers in terms of skill in this game it becomes quite obvious how bad arms warriors are. Damage is in fact Everything the class have, We have no real cc, no real defensive cooldowns, no real sustain. Alot of our kit got fucking moved to Warmode talents which is pure bullshit. Give back disarm and spellreflect to every fucking spec pls..... People usually use the argument that "Warriors are good with support" which is one of the worst arguments in this game. Every single fucking class is good with support. Warriors are the only one that is heavily reliant on it. Go do some 1v1, 2v2 arena and you'll see that you'll hit a brick wall when your skill level equals to that of your oponents. It will become extremly diffucult to win against priests,rogues, mages, hunters, paladins etc etc as a warrior.

3v3 is the only scenario where everything Changes, Since then you have two classes which you can rely on for the things warriors lack. And then they become pretty good at pressuring. WITH DAMAGE, WHICH THEY NERFED. But its still ok.

So to conclude things, if new players ask me if they should play warriors I will answer them with. Sure but you'll be gargabe at everything except Trash dps in dungeons and 3v3. because to you thats good enough reasons for warriors to be gimped.

And since you have never reached high rated pvp content I'm going to assume you have no idea what you're talking about regarding pvp. You are refering to 1 player that has gotten high rating in fucking 3v3 a season where warriors was great. Perfect source btw. If you can reach 2200 rating please come back here and show your results. I can promise you that you will struggle ALOT

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I'm on fire because the hotfix was a brutal nerf, 8% in a perfect sim scenario (which will never occur) and even worse in more realistic scenarios lets say 10% since you can't hit all of your auto's. Its good that you experiment, but the math is pretty simple mastery is still a to bad of a stat to try to focus on atm. Hopefully they'll buff it up to haste/crits rating and then it might justify the reduction in damage. But atm don't gimp yourself unnecessarily.

So you as some nobody who simply created an account just to cry about how terrible you are now because apparently blizzard nerfed you by 14% and gave you absolutely no buffs in return to compensate (at least this is how you seem to interpret it) only to insult people who disagree with you as if they can't possibly understand anything? There are players on these forums, Bazz and I included, that have been a part of the warrior community for many years clearing end game content getting top ranking parses on plenty of those fights and helping other warriors improve and succeed while actually adding to the community rather than bitching and moaning about things that aren't actually a problem. We've seen plenty of nerfs, justified and unjustified, and we've seen plenty of buffs throughout the years along with dozens if not hundreds of nobodies coming to bitch and moan about how the sky is apparently falling. You're not the first and you won't be the last, but you'll still be the one crying over a small nerf in worst case situations. It's far from "brutal" so it's pointless to exaggerate.

For starters, if you're going to pretend like it's easy or even possible to reliably get 340-350 ilvl gear with 0 mastery on any of it minus the neckless then I'm going to need to see your armory of this magical and glorious set of gear that you somehow easily obtained in a single week. Most if not all warriors have mastery on their gear. If they don't then they cherry picked and avoided higher ilvl pieces to avoid mastery which means they have room for ilvl improvement. Mastery isn't useless and it doesn't have to be the best. All classes have a least valuable stat but it never means that it's a useless stat (unless of course you're Arms before the change). The idea is to put value there so when the higher ilvl pieces that happens to have mastery on it you have a better chance of it being an upgrade to you so that you can take advantage of the extra strength, stam, and other stat such as crit. To complain about being given the option to do so is frankly childish. There's a even a trinket that's incredibly good now thanks to this buff that wouldn't be since half the time mastery would proc and make it completely useless.

The perfect sim scenario that you keep using to fuel you're argument is also as bad as the nerf gets. It literally can't get any worse because you're not going to find a better gear set up. It assumes you hit the lottery for gear and since you absolutely didn't then I can bet your ass that you didn't even see much of a change and if you're gear was low ilvl with plenty of higher ilvl gear in the bag with mastery on it you likely came out even if not slightly buffed depending on the extent. Also, the fact that you're argument is that you "realistically lost 10% since you can't hit all of your auto attacks". Auto attacks don't impact deep wounds which means, based on your argument, they don't devalue mastery but indeed devalue crit and haste naturally making mastery a bit better. You'd know that if you had any clue of what you're even talking about. Of course mastery still isn't sought after but every class is always going to have stats that aren't better than others. Those stats still have enough value that where if you have a set amount more of the worst stat it's still going to be better than the lesser amount of the main stat. Differing depending on the weight of each stat that is.

Abilities nerfed with a huge buff to mastery to compensate. Mastery not ideal but still has a good amount of worth compared to being useless. You're not nerfed by 14%. You're not even nerfed by 10%. I'm going to go out on a limb that you're not even nerfed by 8% and ideally probably not even 5%. There's not really any more room for discussion as the facts present themselves. You're the one that needs to stop acting like a brick wall. Go to the wow forums if you want to cry like a child about information you obviously don't understand.

[MisterBigglez]

Confirmed blizzad is full of idiots. Arms was fine, now they are doing even more damage. Fury on the other hand has problems. Love having to use WW twice or wait 0.5-1 sec for auto attack to bring enough rage for rampage

Not even true and lol you're complaining that you didn't get enough rage to cast Rampage. Okay kid.

[Holofernes]

@Meatsack

You cannot realistically actually gear all Crit/Haste/Verse, you will be forced to take mastery or suffer lower ilvl pieces because items with Mastery would simply not be usable even with the non-linear scaling of STR from ilvl (vs linear secondaries), leaving you in a really gimped situation of finding it difficult to gear. You also have to look past the short term first week of the expansion and look at the long term, Blizzard cannot leave a stat completely broken for a class for an entire expansion, class balancing at the start of an expansion is also inevitable, it could yet be buffed further.

The 80% base mastery you now have is a buff to your dps and cannot be ignored when looking at the overall dps lost with the 14% nerf, nor should you ignore the future upgrades you might have had with mastery becoming usable items instead of pure trash.


As for the concerns of players on EU forums.. Given that I too am playing Arms Warrior, I too am doing dungeons and world PVP it's interesting how I am not experiencing the spec being weak in any way. Sure I can't take a Ret Paladin 1v1, that's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean the spec isn't exceptional at most everything else... It's especially interesting when a 2.7k rated Arena and top RBG player says "Arms is completely fine" and they reply that it's not valid because "So, what you are saying is that it's okay that PvP is balanced for arena only?".... They read what they want to read, if a high rated PVP says it's fine they assume all he does is log in and play arena, if a raider says it's fine they bring up 3v3 rating.. Whatever is convenient to continue whining.

Ultimately nobody wants to admit it's an L2P issue when they aren't coming out on top, and nobody that isn't coming out on top wants to be told their spec is actually very strong.

i want you to play any other class and pvp with it. Than you realize how awful weak arms is right now. after the 14 % to all abilities nerf i rerolled to a mage, and i am actually able to kill people. Warrior are nothing but victims right now. all they had was dmg, and the dmg was taken away from them. It was never that bad than it is now.

in pve arms has become a passive dotweaver that is good at trash pulls. well if you are comfortable with that niche roll than thats "fine" i guess. But not for me.

And im a guy that has played arms warrior main since 2007.

Edit: new hotfix: Seismic Wave (Warrior) damage reduced by 58%.

[Flaks]

It's a little ridiculous when ret is going around easily hitting 10k+ templar's verdict, sub is critting consistent 15k+ eviscerates and here I am trying to align massive MS crits that are never more than 14-15k after executioner, double OP and csmash. Something's clearly off with the numbers and when a class literally has nothing but damage in its favor it needs to do it better than the classes with a ton of utility and/or self sustain or it needs to get those things for itself especially now that world pvp is a thing.

I'd personally actually suggest self sustain over anything else. Impending victory made baseline so that the azerite trait can be bigger boon OR to have talents changed up so that stuns, mobility and survival aren't conflicting with each other; literally no other class or spec has to make such dire decisions for things so massively lacking.

Wishlist would be: one talent tier with charge stun vs stormbolt vs shockwave; another with impending victory, leech on rallying cry and defensive stance and another with double charge, heroic leap cd reduction and I guess some other mobility talent.

Pipe dream would be: return of WotLK defensive stance making it baseline and bringing back sword and board with ms switching to shield slam, op switching to revenge and execute switching to shield block or shield charge when switching stances with automatic swapping of weapon to actual one hander and shield.

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

If all the highest skill players are saying Arms is amazing, Arms is fine, even Arms is "Overpowered" then I'm pretty sure that it's an L2P issue. I personally have been destroying fucking 95% of the players I've met in open world combat, and the biggest complaint from the plebs is that they can't win against anyone or anything in open world PVP 1v1... We're all playing the same class so L2P issue.

I don't know what skill level you play at, but somehow I see it pointing in a direction, feel free to prove me wrong.

There are a few things you need to understand.

Saying your destroy 95% of players you met in open world pvp is not a valid argument... At all.

1- People that are leveling with Warmode on aren't always PvP players. They have on simply because they gain more experience. Some of them never play battlegrounds or even arena, they are purely PVE players who wants to gain more experience through the leveling. At 120, there is more rewards for world quests, so it remains the same.. Not all of them are people that have experience in PvP.

2- People that you "Crush" might also be boosted 110 who are leveling, or people that have very few experience with their class and are learning even though they are 120. It comes back to #1. Even if some people have some experience at PvPing you have to understand that most players in this game play for PVE.

3- Some players are running PVE build to farm world quest. PVE builds and PVP are not the same and can change the pace of battle. Some defensive options are very strong in PvP and weak in PVE (Defensive stance) comes to mind.

To conclude, saying you win 95% of your fights (Where did you get that statistic by the way? Did you number down every win and loss you have?) isn't relevant as an argument. The health and the state of a class isn't determined by random world PvP. Your own experience shouldn't be taken into consideration since you can't figure out yourself why this is such a weak and narrow-minded argument.

The Warrior damage nerf was called for, but not 14%. 10% would have been good enough.

If you are quoting everything else says in paragraphs like that (Which makes you look angry and vindictive) you better make sure you are right and not saying random bullshit (Which you are)

I stopped reading after that since your are clearly a "Brickwall" as he said.

[Deleted]

So less burst, more bleeds. Meh...

Literally welcome to what happened to elemental shamans over the past 8 years.

[Destram]

It's a little ridiculous when ret is going around easily hitting 10k+ templar's verdict, sub is critting consistent 15k+ eviscerates and here I am trying to align massive MS crits that are never more than 14-15k after executioner, double OP and csmash. Something's clearly off with the numbers and when a class literally has nothing but damage in its favor it needs to do it better than the classes with a ton of utility and/or self sustain or it needs to get those things for itself especially now that world pvp is a thing.

I'd personally actually suggest self sustain over anything else. Impending victory made baseline so that the azerite trait can be bigger boon OR to have talents changed up so that stuns, mobility and survival aren't conflicting with each other; literally no other class or spec has to make such dire decisions for things so massively lacking.

Wishlist would be: one talent tier with charge stun vs stormbolt vs shockwave; another with impending victory, leech on rallying cry and defensive stance and another with double charge, heroic leap cd reduction and I guess some other mobility talent.

Pipe dream would be: return of WotLK defensive stance making it baseline and bringing back sword and board with ms switching to shield slam, op switching to revenge and execute switching to shield block or shield charge when switching stances with automatic swapping of weapon to actual one hander and shield.

Why is that ridiculous? You just said templar's verdict can hit 10k and eviscerate can hit 15k. My MS crit for about 15k same as you. Templar's verdict costs 3 holy power and eviscerate 5 combo points, MS just needs an overpower or two to do the same so it's really right in line with everything else you mentioned there's nothing ridiculous about that. You also coincidentally left out the part where MS also applies deep wounds which is our highest damage and does more damage than the MS itself.
So what's the issue?