"Vanilla rotation was only 1-2 buttons"

[Deleted]

It's simple...all of Vanilla was like that...if you think Vanilla was complex (It obviously wasn't) then live is extreme super hardcore. But look who I'm talking to...another person with that stupid sig...did you hear? BfA has the most opening sales of WoW's expansion history...where is Vanilla to take all of those subs?

Jeez how toxic.
Vanilla wasn’t complicated but nor is BFA. In fact, it’s much more streamlined than before. The BFA rotation is also piss easy. Seriously, calling anything in WoW complicated is a stretch.
Vanilla is still in development.
Just opening sales of an expansion is a VERY bad way of measuring the success of an expansion.

[deniter]

It's simple...all of Vanilla was like that...if you think Vanilla was complex (It obviously wasn't) then live is extreme super hardcore. But look who I'm talking to...another person with that stupid sig...did you hear? BfA has the most opening sales of WoW's expansion history...where is Vanilla to take all of those subs?

Pretty much everyone interested to continue playing WoW MUST buy the expansion, so the sales figures correlate pretty well with the number of current subscribers. There used to be 6.5 mil subscriptions in Asia alone and one million less in west. In this light 3.4 mil sold expansions worldwide is not anything extraordinary even though any game selling those figures is an achievement.

Statistics is a funny thing. By narrowing the window of time you can prove pretty much anything and have things look better than they actually are. They broke the one day sales record and that's awesome but how about the total number of sold copies? How come no one talks about this figure?

[Revelations]

Rose tinted glasses everywhere

[Deleted]

Rose tinted glasses everywhere

Meh, you’re wrong.

[Kithelle]

Jeez how toxic.
Vanilla wasn’t complicated but nor is BFA. In fact, it’s much more streamlined than before. The BFA rotation is also piss easy. Seriously, calling anything in WoW complicated is a stretch.
Vanilla is still in development.
Just opening sales of an expansion is a VERY bad way of measuring the success of an expansion.

So...can't really dispute my proof so you call it toxic.

Fact of the matter is vanilla wow you spammed a few buttons which is easier than a 5-7 button rotation, another fact is WoW didn't have all the mechanics it does now...bosses were a lot easier...only thing that vanilla had that was complicated that live doesn't was damage resist gearing.

Never once said WoW is hard...just saying vanilla is a cake walk compared to live...back then it was nothing but a simplistic time sink.

[Deleted]

So...can't really dispute my proof so you call it toxic.

Fact of the matter is vanilla wow you spammed a few buttons which is easier than a 5-7 button rotation, another fact is WoW didn't have all the mechanics it does now...bosses were a lot easier...only thing that vanilla had that was complicated that live doesn't was damage resist gearing.

Never once said WoW is hard...just saying vanilla is a cake walk compared to live...back then it was nothing but a simplistic time sink.

No that’s not why I called you toxic.
Live has a 5 button rotation tops, which doesn’t make the game any more fun to play at all.

[chronia]

No that’s not why I called you toxic.
Live has a 5 button rotation tops, which doesn’t make the game any more fun to play at all.

To be fair, i have alot more fun now wih my 5-6 buttons than i had spamming shadowbolt and occasionally cast a curse in Vanilla rotation wise. Doesn't mean its the same for all portions of the game but the one button spam is something i never really liked about warlock in Vanilla.

[Battlebeard]

Boss mechanics? In Vanilla?

I'm guessing you haven't actually done any hard fights the past few expansions. If you had, you'd know that the mechanics on some of those fights are absolutely fucking insane, and you can't possible prioritize doing damage over them most of the time.

I can't imagine why people think that mashing 1 button over and over again, and bosses having MAYBE 1 mechanic for you to deal with, is better than the current raiding scene. A lower skill ceiling? What kind of ass backwards thing is that for you to want?

Honestly, if you want your DPS to not matter, and there to be no meaningful mechanics, just queue for LFR.

No, you get me wrong, I am sorry, english is not my mother tongue.

I want MORE mechanics and HARDER mechanics BUT less importance to have good dps or good gear. Infact, I would love to have scaled raids, where gear doesn't matter at all.

In fact, I think the whole MMORPG genre is outdated, and a "raid moba" would be more suited to todays market, meaning there are no levels or gear, you just do the boss fights, maybe with like a rating system or something.

Or simply add Raid+ like Mythic+ and change both those modes to have no gear, and ONLY skill will determine what level you would reach. Ofc you would have to add more levels, or eventually everyone would be stuck at one key level.

[Kithelle]

No that’s not why I called you toxic.
Live has a 5 button rotation tops, which doesn’t make the game any more fun to play at all.

I guess if you lie sure...every spec has no more than 5 buttons

But don't pretend like spamming the same thing over and over and over and over again is fun.

[Zoldor]

Yeah, curious to see how happy or disillusioned ppl will be when Classic realms hit

This is the comment I'm going with. I think a lot of people are going to be bored and a lot of people are going to love it because they like slow.

Claiming that timing was a thing in vanilla or thinking ahead and saying that isn't part of modern raiding shows that someone isn't raiding. You can't tunnel a rotation in todays raids like you could back in the day. It will be interesting to see how everyone reacts.

If you raid today, going back none of the bosses will be hard for you, they'll be time consuming to over come things like resistance gear and just having overall health and numbers while getting 2 pieces of gear a boss for a 40 man raid. Lots of arbitrary time gates in Vanilla. Which is fine if that is what you like is slow.

- - - Updated - - -

No, you get me wrong, I am sorry, english is not my mother tongue.

I want MORE mechanics and HARDER mechanics BUT less importance to have good dps or good gear. Infact, I would love to have scaled raids, where gear doesn't matter at all.

In fact, I think the whole MMORPG genre is outdated, and a "raid moba" would be more suited to todays market, meaning there are no levels or gear, you just do the boss fights, maybe with like a rating system or something.

Or simply add Raid+ like Mythic+ and change both those modes to have no gear, and ONLY skill will determine what level you would reach. Ofc you would have to add more levels, or eventually everyone would be stuck at one key level.

Vanilla is really gear dependent, just not in the way you're thinking.

[deniter]

This is the comment I'm going with. I think a lot of people are going to be bored and a lot of people are going to love it because they like slow.

Claiming that timing was a thing in vanilla or thinking ahead and saying that isn't part of modern raiding shows that someone isn't raiding. You can't tunnel a rotation in todays raids like you could back in the day. It will be interesting to see how everyone reacts.

If you raid today, going back none of the bosses will be hard for you, they'll be time consuming to over come things like resistance gear and just having overall health and numbers while getting 2 pieces of gear a boss for a 40 man raid. Lots of arbitrary time gates in Vanilla. Which is fine if that is what you like is slow.

In other words, today's raiding is an action game and vanilla was a character building game. You could pretty much compare FPS game to RTS game and argue which one is harder. They also have very different kind of playerbase in terms of mindset and personality. One values patience and dedication and the other fast reflexes and decision making.

They are two totally different games.

[Lora]

wasnt really 2 buttons. downranking alone made it so you had multiple buttons to press.

[sage]

No, you get me wrong, I am sorry, english is not my mother tongue.

I want MORE mechanics and HARDER mechanics BUT less importance to have good dps or good gear. Infact, I would love to have scaled raids, where gear doesn't matter at all.

In fact, I think the whole MMORPG genre is outdated, and a "raid moba" would be more suited to todays market, meaning there are no levels or gear, you just do the boss fights, maybe with like a rating system or something.

Or simply add Raid+ like Mythic+ and change both those modes to have no gear, and ONLY skill will determine what level you would reach. Ofc you would have to add more levels, or eventually everyone would be stuck at one key level.

I think a 'raid moba' would be fantastic, honestly. HotS had a weekly brawl that was similar to this, 5 man vs zerg. It was a ton of fun.

Now.. your Raid+ or Mythic+ idea is basically challenge mode 5mans. But the thing about that is, even if everyone has the same gear, they have to balance it around how much damage you can do with that gear. DPS will always be important, there isn't a fun way to balance it so that DPS doesn't matter. Otherwise, you have good players who steamroll through it while worse players struggle, or you have good players struggle while worse players literally can't do it.

When you say 'only skill will determine what level you reach' surely you know that being able to squeeze out every last drop of DPS your character is able to do, while doing mechanics, is what makes someone skilled in an MMO. That's why bad players = no dps, and good players = good dps.

[Deleted]

I don't like the way raiders conflate skill with discipline. All it took in vanilla was discipline, there was no real skill in raiding. There was no real avenue for skill in WoW until arena was introduced in TBC.

[Deleted]

Key things that you are missing when you think about vanilla
– Resource management
– Timing
– Thinking ahead
Which are not vital to game right now at all or not present altogether…

This sounds like a bunch of bullocks of a person who never played it when it was relevant..

Resource management "was" a thing, but is the same now a days for healers. and trust me as a person who played a resto druid and a warlock. most of all as a warlock IT is not fucking fun haveing to use wand for 20 sec in the middle of a fight. That is not engageing gameplay. This leds me to "timing" also BS, there was much fewer game mechanics, so they had to make them overly punishing. It not FUN to have to wait 15 sec as a fight start to wait for the tank to get thread, and then ever 1-2 min haveing to spend 20Sec wanding.(this also cover thinking ahead)

And to point out, just the name of the thread speaks about how little of the game you know.. I mean atleast pretend like you played it, anyone who played in TBC and Vanila would tell you, as you did not have many spells, you had spell ranks. On my Resto druid i had. 3 different ranks of Healing touch, 2-3 of my healing over time. I had more bottons back then, for as you say Resource managment WAS importen but does not make the game more fun

[Deleted]

To be fair, i have alot more fun now wih my 5-6 buttons than i had spamming shadowbolt and occasionally cast a curse in Vanilla rotation wise. Doesn't mean its the same for all portions of the game but the one button spam is something i never really liked about warlock in Vanilla.

Of course, to each his own

I guess if you lie sure...every spec has no more than 5 buttons


But don't pretend like spamming the same thing over and over and over and over again is fun.

Why would I lie? Besides, not every class only had 1 button to spam. Most even didn’t.

[Kithelle]

Of course, to each his own


Why would I lie? Besides, not every class only had 1 button to spam. Most even didn’t.

Because...it sounds better and some people who don't know what they're talking about may actually fall for it? You're another Vanilla zealot? (The typical zealot lies through his teeth to make vanilla sound much better than it actually was) Or maybe you just hate live and you're doing all you can to make it sound worse...

[Mafic]

Vanilla is going to be awesome.

The community aspect will blow away the safe spaces CRZ that plagues current BFA and all will become clear in time!

[MidnyteTV]

OMFG the OP is delusional. Take any member of any top end guild in Vanilla, have them quit the game permanently right before TBC launched and bring them back to Mythic Raiding since WoD and they will FAIL miserably.

[Deleted]

Anyone who ACTUALLY did high-end raids in Vanilla and mythic raids for the last expansion knows, that Vanilla raiding was A LOT easier than mythics are now. There weren't even close as much mechanics for you to execute as there are now, and lol at people claiming that resource management made the rotations harder than they are now. At least DPSing was easy back then, and it is easy now; the difference is that in Vanilla most people could just focus on DPSing but now they have to do that while executing more complex strategies.

This said, I had many more times fun in Vanilla that I have had after that. But I'm not that delusional that I'm trying to bash modern wow down by claiming it's easier than Vanilla - even though I like Vanilla a lot more.

Just a note: by harder I obviously mean how good the player is at executing mechanics/doing his role. Vanilla raiding required more effort, but less skill.