Sub Rogues Boss Dmg

[Quickpaw]

I never get any Rogues in my party and I'm curious about their Mythic Dungeon Boss dmg. I'm looking for replies from people who know the spec well and know what they are doing and are 340+ iL

[Lord Baz]

im 339 ,, and i easy pull 13k on mythic dungeon bosses without lust

ST damage in my experience is the best with sub

[lolpve]

Last mythic was freehold, did 12k 17.6k 15.8k 16.6k on each boss respectively, lust on the last boss. 340ilevel with 355 mainhand

[Yhcti]

Sub is the #1 ST spec right now. The dps it does single target is ridiculous especially on the opener. Which is great

[ymirsson]

I never get any Rogues in my party and I'm curious about their Mythic Dungeon Boss dmg. I'm looking for replies from people who know the spec well and know what they are doing and are 340+ iL

Are you even allowed that question? You don't have 100 posts yet, better stay at the kids playground.

Infracted.

[Quickpaw]

Are you even allowed that question? You don't have 100 posts yet, better stay at the kids playground.

Why would I not be allowed to ask literally whatever I wanted to ask here? If you're using peoples # of post on mmochamp as a baseline for their performance in game...well i'd have to say that's pretty pathetic. Thanks for the informative reply though

[omgmayday]

can you guys list your talents/ opener for that sub opener/mythic+

[Diggums]

can you guys list your talents/ opener for that sub opener/mythic+

I've been running: (15) Find Weakness (30) Shadow Focus (45) marked for Death (60) Cheat Death (75) Prey on the Weak (90) Enveloping Shadows (100) Secret Technique

Which I'm pretty sure is the generic M+ build. You can always tweak it to whatever fits the group.

Opener using these talents in m+ goes something like:
Shadowblades from stealth> Shadow Strike>nightblade>Shadow dance + Shadowstrike> symbols of death + shadowstrike>Secret technique> Marked for Death + Eviscerate> another shadow dance combo.

Someone else can probably expand and give an exact optimal opener but this is generally what I use. also it can change depending ontraits. With Sharpened blades if you have 30 stacks going into the fight use your shuriken toss as soon as nightblade, symbols, and shadow dance are active.

[ymirsson]

Why would I not be allowed to ask literally whatever I wanted to ask here? If you're using peoples # of post on mmochamp as a baseline for their performance in game...well i'd have to say that's pretty pathetic. Thanks for the informative reply though

So why would you rate the legitimacy of people's replies with their ilvl? Ignoring the fact that anyone can say any number in the first place.

[JSA2422]

I've been running: (15) Find Weakness (30) Shadow Focus (45) marked for Death (60) Cheat Death (75) Prey on the Weak (90) Enveloping Shadows (100) Secret Technique

Which I'm pretty sure is the generic M+ build. You can always tweak it to whatever fits the group.

Opener using these talents in m+ goes something like:
Shadowblades from stealth> Shadow Strike>nightblade>Shadow dance + Shadowstrike> symbols of death + shadowstrike>Secret technique> Marked for Death + Eviscerate> another shadow dance combo.

Someone else can probably expand and give an exact optimal opener but this is generally what I use. also it can change depending ontraits. With Sharpened blades if you have 30 stacks going into the fight use your shuriken toss as soon as nightblade, symbols, and shadow dance are active.

I do something similar but I use Deeper Strat/Dark Shadow/Master of Shadows (or ST if weak aoe).

Shadowblades > SS > BS > BS > Nightblade > Dance+Symbols > SSx2 > Evis > SSx2 > Dance > Evis (if I can't squeeze it in the last dance) > SSx2 > Evis ..goes a little free form from here ..BS > BS > Vanish SS (reapply find weakness) > BSx2 > Dance (if symbols is up, if 5 secs, BS/pool) > Evis > rinse repeat

[Moggers1990]

I do something similar but I use Deeper Strat/Dark Shadow/Master of Shadows (or ST if weak aoe).

Shadowblades > SS > BS > BS > Nightblade > Dance+Symbols > SSx2 > Evis > SSx2 > Dance > Evis (if I can't squeeze it in the last dance) > SSx2 > Evis ..goes a little free form from here ..BS > BS > Vanish SS (reapply find weakness) > BSx2 > Dance (if symbols is up, if 5 secs, BS/pool) > Evis > rinse repeat

You're gimping yourself with those 2 Backstabs on the opener. Remember, you have Shadowblades up granting an extra combo per attack. Just from the initial Shadowstrike you'll be at 3 combo points (and 90% of the time Shadow Techniques also procs here), even just using 1 Backstab you'll be at 5-6 combo points so the 2nd wastes both energy and combo points.

I personally don't Eviscerate during Dance either unless i get a crit + proc and get 4 combo points from a single Shadowstrike, then i just Eviscerate in place of the next Shadowstrike. I'm not 100% on the "best" way of going about this, but the general idea during Shadow Dance is to max combo point generation through Shadowstrikes without overcapping. I've not looked at any of the guides this expansion for what they say rotation-wise so i'm just going off my own previous experience.

[Deleted]

So why would you rate the legitimacy of people's replies with their ilvl? Ignoring the fact that anyone can say any number in the first place.

Why do you assume he demands high ilvl for that purpose? The way i read his request is that he wants to see how far can the spec go and how well best players with great gear do. Maybe he has 340+ gear and wants to see how he matches up with rest, to check if he is good enough? Or if someone in his team/guild performs decently? Or what to expect from rogues when he gets them in his group?
What use are 310ilvl or 320ilvl or whatever dps numbers if you are trying to figure out how much you should be doing at 340+? Its as if you assume he is asking for people to brag about their damage for no reason and not with certain goal in mind.

[JSA2422]

You're gimping yourself with those 2 Backstabs on the opener. Remember, you have Shadowblades up granting an extra combo per attack. Just from the initial Shadowstrike you'll be at 3 combo points (and 90% of the time Shadow Techniques also procs here), even just using 1 Backstab you'll be at 5-6 combo points so the 2nd wastes both energy and combo points.

I personally don't Eviscerate during Dance either unless i get a crit + proc and get 4 combo points from a single Shadowstrike, then i just Eviscerate in place of the next Shadowstrike. I'm not 100% on the "best" way of going about this, but the general idea during Shadow Dance is to max combo point generation through Shadowstrikes without overcapping. I've not looked at any of the guides this expansion for what they say rotation-wise so i'm just going off my own previous experience.

I wouldn't say gimped but I do hold off on the 2nd BS if I get a proc. You don't envis during dance? what do you dump the CPs into? with dance up my crit is around 67% without procs and with dance/symbols up the dmg is buffed heavily too ..

[Quickpaw]

Big thanks to everyone who understood what I was asking. I currently have a 342 WW Monk and a 340 Havoc DH and I was just curious how well Sub was doing on Mythic/Mythic+ Bosses because I've still not grouped with one yet but hear a lot of good things.

[Moggers1990]

I wouldn't say gimped but I do hold off on the 2nd BS if I get a proc. You don't envis during dance? what do you dump the CPs into? with dance up my crit is around 67% without procs and with dance/symbols up the dmg is buffed heavily too ..

Kinda didn't explain myself very well. Obviously i Eviscerate during Dance but only at full combo points while in Dance, i don't Dance at 4-5 combo points to then Eviscerate.

Standard opener/rotation is pretty basic: Shadowblades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade > Dance > Shadowstrike x2 + Symbols > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike x2 > *Dance over* Eviscerate > Dance > Shadowstrike x2 > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike x2 > *Dance over* Eviscerate. Rinse and repeat, essentially 4 Shadowstrikes and an Eviscerate per Dance.
If i get 4 combo points from a single Shadowstrike i will then Eviscerate which throws the "rotation" out of wack, and it can happen twice in a row so a dance is like: Shadowstrike > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike.

For single target and using Enveloping Shadows it makes no difference if i Eviscerate in or out of Dance (imagine when using Dark Shadow it's a different story). Maximising combo point generation for more-often Dances means prioritising Shadowstrike over anything else during Dance, it's a waste of Dance to do more than 1 Eviscerate under the normal rotation outside of crits and procs.

And 67% crit? Are you maybe in Warmode using the PvP talent because there's no way you'll be at that without procs/trinkets up.



But to answer the OP's question. Sub is really, really good boss damage. Trash damage sucks a bit compared to good AoE classes (Mages/Hunters/DH's), but that's not what you're there for. The single target burst damage is pretty insane and more often than not there is 1 mob that needs to die ASAP; that's your job.
Not to mention being able to Sap/Shroud skip a ton of trash is super helpful in M+ (having a Rogue in Tal'dagor really cuts the clear time down as i doubt the majority of groups will have the Blacksmithing key or whatever it is to open the gates/prisons).

[JSA2422]

Kinda didn't explain myself very well. Obviously i Eviscerate during Dance but only at full combo points while in Dance, i don't Dance at 4-5 combo points to then Eviscerate.

Standard opener/rotation is pretty basic: Shadowblades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade > Dance > Shadowstrike x2 + Symbols > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike x2 > *Dance over* Eviscerate > Dance > Shadowstrike x2 > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike x2 > *Dance over* Eviscerate. Rinse and repeat, essentially 4 Shadowstrikes and an Eviscerate per Dance.
If i get 4 combo points from a single Shadowstrike i will then Eviscerate which throws the "rotation" out of wack, and it can happen twice in a row so a dance is like: Shadowstrike > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike > Eviscerate > Shadowstrike.

For single target and using Enveloping Shadows it makes no difference if i Eviscerate in or out of Dance (imagine when using Dark Shadow it's a different story). Maximising combo point generation for more-often Dances means prioritising Shadowstrike over anything else during Dance, it's a waste of Dance to do more than 1 Eviscerate under the normal rotation outside of crits and procs.

And 67% crit? Are you maybe in Warmode using the PvP talent because there's no way you'll be at that without procs/trinkets up.



But to answer the OP's question. Sub is really, really good boss damage. Trash damage sucks a bit compared to good AoE classes (Mages/Hunters/DH's), but that's not what you're there for. The single target burst damage is pretty insane and more often than not there is 1 mob that needs to die ASAP; that's your job.
Not to mention being able to Sap/Shroud skip a ton of trash is super helpful in M+ (having a Rogue in Tal'dagor really cuts the clear time down as i doubt the majority of groups will have the Blacksmithing key or whatever it is to open the gates/prisons).

Is it bad that I forgot that was a PVP only talent? lol yeah that's what Iw as referring to

[Jaronicity]

can you guys list your talents/ opener for that sub opener/mythic+

I do things a bit differently than some people. I run (15) Weaponmaster (30) Shadow Focus (45) Deeper Stratagem (60) Cheat Death (75) Prey on the Weak (90) Dark Shadows (100) Secret Technique. This is the "standard" multi-target/dungeon build.

Shadowstrike
Nightblade
Shadow Dance
Symbols of Death
Shadowstrike
Shadowstrike
Secret Technique when talented
Eviscerate when not talented into Secret Technique
Shadowstrike
Shadowstrike
Eviscerate

If 3+ mobs I'll ShStorm during Dance and Evisc into my NB'd target. Otherwise just Storm at 2+ no in dance. Then just SecTec on CD if there are a lot mobs to reset its CD. On bosses, I use both dance charges in my Symbols cd then one charge per SoD after.
Shadow Dance repeat