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  1. #301
    The plot of WoW no longer makes sense. We destroyed the Legion, an infinite army that had been unstoppable in laying waste to countless worlds. Being like N'Zoth or Azshara should be absolutely terrified of us.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  2. #302
    His boss is clearly the "The Darkness" 20/20 Hearthstone card.
    Last edited by Goreslave; 2018-08-29 at 04:46 PM.

  3. #303
    Pandaren Monk Tartys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothingsjim View Post
    Shower Thought: N'zoth has corrupted the "Natural" Life & Death cycle via Death deities like Bwonsamdi, the souls of the dead under those deity's care will be eventually consumed by the Old God to boost his power, until eventually he's strong enough to break out the prison by himself. In exchange, N'zoth destroyed all other Death deities, letting Bwonsamdi reign supreme in the Realm of Death.

    "The nearness of the Void here is comforting. I was used in a sacrifice of many creatures in a place like this. Every death brought us closer to the complete corruption of this world."

    This way, N'zoth make certain that no matter what happens, he wins. Deathwing obliterated? The untold amount of death he caused empowered N'zoth. Mortal hero thwarted Azshara? Her soul is powerful and delicious. Casualty from HvA? Yum!

    And this may actually be the reason why Void is scared of Sylvanas. If she raises everyone into Undeath, the Life & Death cycle will be broken and there won't be anymore souls of Old God to consume.
    Undead have souls...

    https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...4613?page=3#49
    "The souls of the undead (Forsaken, PC death knights, ghouls, etc.) are imperfectly attached to their bodies; the dark magic that sustains them is a buffer that prevents their souls from properly joining with their bodies. This is why undead feel only faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. The primary exception to this rule are liches, as liches bind their souls to a phylactery and then use the phylactery to generate a physical form; this process is why lich bodies look nothing like their mortal bodies, and also why you have to destroy a lich’s phylactery to truly kill them.

    The Undead can die, their souls can be consumed and/or sent into the Shadowland... but undead cant be corrupted by Void whispers and can't procreate.

    So, raises everyone into Undeath lead to extincion... is the reason why Sylvanas was making a deal with Helya.
    She dont need a world full of dead people, she need the power to resurrect dead people as Forsaken... but first She need the power to bring back people to life, then turn into undead ...

    In fact, this should be the true point about this Sylvanas situation: giving to her the power to resurrect and see what she will choose: life or death.
    (Odyn made a similar deal with Death... he sacrificed an eye in order to create the first Valkir).


    Now, about Xal'atath whispers, the dagger is talking about "corruption of this world" via sacrifice on altar...
    and you jump to the conclusion that death means the soul is consumed to bulk the Old Gods powers... actually is not.

    Old Gods wanna consume only one soul: the World-Soul. Xal'atath memories are about Black Empire... when Old Gods try to corrupt our nascent Titan corrupting the world... that was before Aggramar discover Azeroth.

    The only one, by now, that is bulked by Death is Bwonsamdi: more souls = more power...

    This is to me a Troll/Loa situation that eventually will lead to a new "troll raid" (^^: Voljin probably will broke the Rastakan/Bwonsamdi deal to save the Troll Empire and free Princess Talanji from her father deal...
    Last edited by Tartys; 2018-08-29 at 04:50 PM.
    Argus in 2018 My prediction failed in part... But I'm still a Spacegoat

  4. #304
    Hakkar = N'Zoth

    The Drowned God's heart is black ice = Hakkar's heart is literally black ice. Hakkar's blood corrupts dragons and he is tied to the Emerald Nightmare. Who else is tied to the Nightmare? One of Hakkar's titles is the "faceless one". Even his manner of speaking is similar to N'Zoth's.

  5. #305
    Hakkar is not a god, he's a loa like Bwonsamdi. Some trolls just worshiped him like a god. I don't think his boss is an old god either. The old gods are minions of the void lords, who are not fans of "Death", which is why they want Sylvanas dead. That also goes with how Sargeras and his legion, mainly KJ, created the Lich King and the undead, using death to ultimately fight against the void.

    I have my own theory that the Lord of Death some powerful entity of Chaos. Something that doesn't care about either the light or the void. As we have seen through all of Warcraft lore, death is very difficult, if not ultimately impossible, to control. Ner'zhul turned against the legion, Arthas turned against Ner'zhul and consumed him, Sylvannas and the Forsaken turned against Arthas, etc. The Void wants there to be darkness, the Light wants there to be light, but Chaos want there to be both so they continually fight each other forever and ever for its amusement.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartys View Post
    Undead have souls...

    https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...4613?page=3#49
    "The souls of the undead (Forsaken, PC death knights, ghouls, etc.) are imperfectly attached to their bodies; the dark magic that sustains them is a buffer that prevents their souls from properly joining with their bodies. This is why undead feel only faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. The primary exception to this rule are liches, as liches bind their souls to a phylactery and then use the phylactery to generate a physical form; this process is why lich bodies look nothing like their mortal bodies, and also why you have to destroy a lich’s phylactery to truly kill them.

    The Undead can die, their souls can be consumed and/or sent into the Shadowland... but undead cant be corrupted by Void whispers and can't procreate.

    So, raises everyone into Undeath lead to extincion... is the reason why Sylvanas was making a deal with Helya.
    She dont need a world full of dead people, she need the power to resurrect dead people as Forsaken... but first She need the power to bring back people to life, then turn into undead ...

    In fact, this should be the true point about this Sylvanas situation: giving to her the power to resurrect and see what she will choose: life or death.
    (Odyn made a similar deal with Death... he sacrificed an eye in order to create the first Valkir).


    Now, about Xal'atath whispers, the dagger is talking about "corruption of this world" via sacrifice on altar...
    and you jump to the conclusion that death means the soul is consumed to bulk the Old Gods powers... actually is not.

    Old Gods wanna consume only one soul: the World-Soul. Xal'atath memories are about Black Empire... when Old Gods try to corrupt our nascent Titan corrupting the world... that was before Aggramar discover Azeroth.

    The only one, by now, that is bulked by Death is Bwonsamdi: more souls = more power...

    This is to me a Troll/Loa situation that eventually will lead to a new "troll raid" (^^: Voljin probably will broke the Rastakan/Bwonsamdi deal to save the Troll Empire and free Princess Talanji from her father deal...
    I don't think I said anything about Undead don't have souls? In WoW Universe, Mortal Souls go to Shadowland after they die, not those of Undead through, their souls got pulled from Shadowland into their newly raised bodies, which means their souls are not where they should be naturally. Plus, Undead CAN be corrupted by Old God whisper, go into the Saronite mines in Dragonblight (IIRC), and you can see some Scourge Ghouls whispering Yogg'saron's name.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The plot of WoW no longer makes sense. We destroyed the Legion, an infinite army that had been unstoppable in laying waste to countless worlds. Being like N'Zoth or Azshara should be absolutely terrified of us.
    We defeated them with artifact weapons, we were nothing without artifact weapons, and now all of them gone.
    .

  8. #308
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    Bwonsamdi is EXTREMELY OLD. Isn't he like tens of thousands of years old? I don't know if his boss would be younger than him, I'd assume it's something just as old.

    Maybe some sort of death dragon or an Old God or Void Lord in disguise?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edynol View Post
    Hakkar is not a god, he's a loa like Bwonsamdi. Some trolls just worshiped him like a god.
    Thing is, not all loa's are created equal. Loa's are basically the name of something that is worshipped by the trolls. There are weaker ones like the Loa of trash/scavaging, Jani and more powerful ones like Rezen (RIP) or Bwonsamdi. Technically, G'Huun is a new loa of the Blood Trolls now even though he's his own thing.

    Hakkar can be a Loa AND a being of immense power. "Loa" is not a mutually exclusive title.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
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  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    No he definitely counts, each of the Titans has a personal trait that associates them with a particular cosmic constant. Eonar - Life, Aman'Thul - Time, Norgannon - Arcane etc.. Argus was associated with the death of the entire universe because he was bound to Sargeras yes, but his personal trait as a Titan was absolutely death. His abilities even had the same color pallet as the various death magics you see used on Azeroth.

    He is irrelevant in this case though, since he's dead (most likely, and if he's not he's trapped in the sealed Seat of the Pantheon) at the time of this questline, so he'd have no contact or ability to sway Bwonsamdi. it's also unlikely to be an Old God, since they are more about madness and corruption than manipulating souls of the dead. Probably going to be an entity we have never seen before.
    Lmao that's not confirmed information. That's stupid speculation based on a chart in Chronicle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Old gods don't like each other.
    G'huun isn't an Old God. He's an Old God-like creation of the Titans. Azshara literally takes part in G'huun getting freed through manipulation of others.

    N'zoth being Bwonsamdi's boss makes zero sense.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Zillbert View Post
    Lmao that's not confirmed information. That's stupid speculation based on a chart in Chronicle.
    ??? What story have you been following, each of the Titans VERY clearly as an association with a particular element. How much more can you confirm that Eonar is the Titan of life than her LITERALLY CREATING LIFE on the planets they ordered. Not even sure why you are so opposed to the idea.

    Also, there's no need to be rude, if you can't have a civilized discussion without resorting to "lmao you're stupid" after a single post then you should go back to 4chan and leave the rest of us in peace.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The plot of WoW no longer makes sense. We destroyed the Legion, an infinite army that had been unstoppable in laying waste to countless worlds. Being like N'Zoth or Azshara should be absolutely terrified of us.
    The problem here is that Warcraft has always done this. They've always had sequential foes go up and down on the powerscale in the lore. There's no real power creep. It's a game mechanic and nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by nVIDIA View Post
    We defeated them with artifact weapons, we were nothing without artifact weapons, and now all of them gone.
    That's a stretch. The weapons may have made us more powerful but they weren't defining our wins. Surely if they were, Blizzard would have told us.

  12. #312
    If he has to have a boss I kinda hope it turns out that Bwonsamdi was just a troll that made a deal with N'Zoth to become a loa/as powerful as a loa. That way they aren't just tossing in a new big bad and Bwonsamdi can go back to being neutral when N'Zoth is defeated. It would also explain why he always appears as a troll to people even non trolls.

  13. #313
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    If he has to have a boss I kinda hope it turns out that Bwonsamdi was just a troll that made a deal with N'Zoth to become a loa/as powerful as a loa. That way they aren't just tossing in a new big bad and Bwonsamdi can go back to being neutral when N'Zoth is defeated. It would also explain why he always appears as a troll to people even non trolls.
    You do understand that WoW will go on after BfA right? ofc we need a new big bad otherwise we will stop having anything to fight but the other faction.
    This is why they are now building up the death realm and the shadowlands and the naruu that can also show evil behavior.

  14. #314
    Deleted
    I think we may still be missing a link here. We have several more things that usually come up when there's anything death related in Azeroth, one is a benign entity or at least a calm one that the Kaluak remember from before the Lich King took over death. One is the constant presence of ravens everywhere that death is occurring, but we still have no actual raven-entity except for Anzu in Outland.

    What if there's a battle going on over the shadowlands much as there is over the ocean? I mean, we've seen now more than ever that N'zoth and his minions took over the seas, but it wasn't always theirs. And still isn't completely, there's still benevolent forces there trying to keep their realm free from the Old God. They are losing, but.. still, they are there.

    And the Shadowlands are much like that. The original Shadowlands may have been bleak, but most souls we encounter move on freely and happily when we 'pacify' them and send them on. In the chronicles Helheim was said to have become a dark place because Helya's spirit was so darkened. It's not naturally 'hell'.
    In the game we've seen several cemeteries that were serene and peaceful places for the souls' rest become places of despair and anger when malevolent forces moved in or there was general (violent) unrest in the area, with the souls of the dead becoming restless too.
    This is usually how I imagine the Shadowlands:
    Original state: bleak and lonely. Grey.
    With any kind of graveyard or peaceful site of communion built: still grey, but serene and peaceful and not lonely anymore.
    defiled graveyard or defiled soul (by any means, be it by their own hatred and holding on to grudges from life, and/or by having been torn or tormented by any form of magic): hell, the 'dark place' (where Sylvanas went and also where we found Uuna)
    places and souls under the protection of a 'higher entity': their kind of heaven/afterlife.

    So what I hope is that, despite the parallels of Bwonsamdi with Old Gods (N'zoth and Bwonsamdi both saying the same line about deals) and the Lich King (Arthas and Rastakhan both uttering the same line about having taken care of everything), his boss may still be an entity aligned with the circle of life and death and actively fighting forces that are trying to end it and are trying to take over death and the shadowlands completely. Or, even better, Bwonsamdi's boss is already corrupted and we will help Bwonsamdi freeing him/her.

    I also think there's something about the either blue or red eye-glow in beings that shows where their alignment lies (knowingly or not). This has been emphasized so much in the recent cinematics and I don't think it's coincidence.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tromage View Post
    You do understand that WoW will go on after BfA right? ofc we need a new big bad otherwise we will stop having anything to fight but the other faction.
    This is why they are now building up the death realm and the shadowlands and the naruu that can also show evil behavior.
    Of course they need new stuff. That doesn't mean that we need to end up with Super Duper Void Lords after we discover the void lords were just their pawns. Just adding a bigger bad behind every enemy/ally we have had is poor story telling.

    We could have easily had the Burning Legion be a threat for dozens if not hundreds of expansions. Legion could have been about disabling/hijacking their portal network forcing them to take years and years to get anywhere.

    Then we could have spent several expansions clearing demons from planets and/or looking for allies to defeat Sargeras while having some expansions dealing with stuff on Azeroth(and possibly Dreanor and Outlands) interspersed among them to build up lore and add new baddies.

    We wouldn't need a retarded powercreep then like Deathwings real real boss being Kiki the gopher loa who has been pissed people forgot about them and turned to dark powers to get revenge.
    Last edited by frogger237; 2018-09-01 at 04:55 PM.

  16. #316
    I say Bwonsamdi's boss is Hakkar.
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  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The plot of WoW no longer makes sense. We destroyed the Legion, an infinite army that had been unstoppable in laying waste to countless worlds. Being like N'Zoth or Azshara should be absolutely terrified of us.
    That's an aspect of the story that certainly needs to be explored; villains that are affraid of the PC.

  18. #318
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    I say Bwonsamdi's boss is Hakkar.
    Hakkar is a Loa of Blood who got imprisoned and almost enslaved by Jin'do, who was working for Zul and Zul served G'huun, a "Blood God" who's clearly leagues above Hakkar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Hakkar is a Loa of Blood who got imprisoned and almost enslaved by Jin'do, who was working for Zul and Zul served G'huun, a "Blood God" who's clearly leagues above Hakkar.
    Was Zul serving G'huun at the time of Cataclysm, though? I was under the impression that Zul turned to G'huun only after other options (troll unification and calling upon the old alliance with Lei-Shen) failed and he returned to Zandalar with nothing but crucial knowledge he picked up while resurrecting the Thunder King.

    Also, wouldn't enslaving Hakkar, if he is Bwonsamdi's master (I myself don't think so), be beneficial to G'huun, considering that G'huun is no friend to Bwonsamdi?

  20. #320
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Xibala_(devilsaur)

    I scanned through the 16 pages of this thread, but I didn't see this brought up. Would there be anything to disprove Xibala?

    Copy/pasting another comment I saw from Wowhead related to this:

    "Here's some interesting speculation based on a few quests I did on an alt after finishing this one on my main.

    Bwonsamdi mentions the he serves a boss, and they are not gonna be happy about him failing his duty as a loa. Many think this boss might be an old god or a Titan but I have another theory, there's a quest chain I overlooked about on the horde side where you are sent to retrieve an item known as the Eye of Xibala. A very powerful and ancient arcane artifact, now this seems like nothing major just a simple oh look random relic mission, But when you know who Xibala is this made me start thinking she may be Bwomsndi's boss.

    Why simply put Xibala is not a place on your map, Xibala is that giant skeleton in that area, and She is the mother of Rezan the former loa of kings and holy might! Now you're probably wondering why I think she is the boss of Bwonsamdi, well if you're the mother of Loa it goes with in reason to think you'd be insanely powerful that would easily give you clout over of Loa especially one that is the god of death if you are no longer in the corporeal realm, but there's also a line from an npc we kill out there called Dark Chronicler who upon death says "I go to Xibala" and I don't think he's talking about the area we are in but the character Xibala herself, Dark Chonicler is also one of the mobs the game refers to as a Zandalari litch an undead a spirit Bwonsamdi has no dominion over but Xibala his boss just might."

    Also https://www.wowhead.com/item=159743/...a#objective-of

    I feel like if we got an 8.1 troll raid to continue the story beyond G'huun, it would involve the loa and Xibala could be the last boss, and there's a lot of good assets to use from Atal'dazar/Kings Rest that would make for a good raid. That would mean saving Queen Azshara and the city of Nazjatar for 8.2, but that might be too far out for her.

    The concept would be solid for an 8.1 raid at least, if they went that route. There's also this old datamine:

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=284001/...-zuldazar-raid

    "NEW 8.1 Raid - ZuldazarRaid"

    If not Xibala, then the last boss might be whoever Bwonsandi's Master is anyway, but what do you guys think about Xibala?


    8.1 Raid in Zuldazar (troll/some mogu/loa theme) - Xibala/Bwonsandi's Master. Heavy focus on Vol'jins character arc

    8.2 Raid in Nazjatar (risen to be west of Stormsong Valley) - Queen Azshara

    8.3 Final Raid in Ny'alotha - N'Zoth. Maybe some temporary truce as its become apparent that Yogg has been manipulating the Horde, and N'Zoth the Alliance as theorized here https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...e_for_azeroth/

    I'm not a super lore buff like a lot of people here, so I could be way offbase, but this is my guess for everything.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2018-09-02 at 10:59 AM.

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