Current state of DK's (UH/Frost)

[Deleted]

Almost all attacks scale off of attack power now. Weapon damage isnt in the calculation anymore. It only really affects your auto attack dmg. Besides that, it's just another stat stick now.

And yet raid bots list weapon damage extremely strongly...

Weapon DPS

8.54

Strength

1.65

Mastery

1.24

Critical Strike

1.22

Versatility

1.16

Haste

1.10

[boz0]

And yet raid bots list weapon damage extremely strongly...

For frost (~340 ilvl with 325 weapons), with latest simcraft nightly :
Wdps : 5.38
WOHdps : 1.40
Mastery: 1.20
Crit : 1.13
Vers : 1.02
Haste : 0.96

So basically, 15 dps on main hand (equivalent of going from 325 to 340) is equivalent to 67.25 mastery, so basically a +40 gem and a +27 ring enchant. Very underwhelming, though it clearly makes dps tuning easier for Blizzard.

[Deleted]

For frost (~340 ilvl with 325 weapons), with latest simcraft nightly :
Wdps : 5.38
WOHdps : 1.40
Mastery: 1.20
Crit : 1.13
Vers : 1.02
Haste : 0.96

So basically, 15 dps on main hand (equivalent of going from 325 to 340) is equivalent to 67.25 mastery, so basically a +40 gem and a +27 ring enchant. Very underwhelming, though it clearly makes dps tuning easier for Blizzard.

Yeah when you put it like that it is a bit underwhelming.

My stat weights were for unholy, which favours wpds a little more than frost...but not much, it seems.

[Zensunni]

Yeah when you put it like that it is a bit underwhelming.

My stat weights were for unholy, which favours wpds a little more than frost...but not much, it seems.

Weapon DPS is hugely impactful for some specs. Full stop.

[boz0]

Weapon DPS is hugely impactful for some specs. Full stop.

Obviously not DK specs.

Which classes/specs are you referring to?

[Gib Lover]

Well data is starting to roll in, Frost is beating Unholy on every fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...ss=DeathKnight
Anecdotally, my guild has 2 unh and we performed pretty well as far as average performance across the group, so unless you are going for absolute world first unh seems fine but I would probably lean towards frost if you can stand playing BoS.

[Kendros]

Almost all attacks scale off of attack power now. Weapon damage isnt in the calculation anymore. It only really affects your auto attack dmg. Besides that, it's just another stat stick now.

Thats not true at all, weapon damage is still part of the calculation, the change to Ap being what most affect abilities damage is that so weapons for casters arent just a normal piece of gear compared to melee.

[boz0]

Well data is starting to roll in, Frost is beating Unholy on every fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...ss=DeathKnight
Anecdotally, my guild has 2 unh and we performed pretty well as far as average performance across the group, so unless you are going for absolute world first unh seems fine but I would probably lean towards frost if you can stand playing BoS.

Unsurprisingly, rogues massively dominate the rankings. Still, the first DK is 6% behind the first rogue on Taloc, so that's not a huge différence.
We'll have to see how it goes at the 50th/75th/90th percentile and see how the first round of tuning goes.

[Deleted]

Sooo which one is doing better atm for raid ? or they are in a similar spot ?

[Kendros]

Well data is starting to roll in, Frost is beating Unholy on every fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...ss=DeathKnight
Anecdotally, my guild has 2 unh and we performed pretty well as far as average performance across the group, so unless you are going for absolute world first unh seems fine but I would probably lean towards frost if you can stand playing BoS.

Thats a fucking stupid way of thinking you dont need to be going for world first to have the class to perform well, i want to progress thru shit and be relevant to my group not be carried away by rogues, monks, warriors and hunters.

[ellieg]

Thats not true at all, weapon damage is still part of the calculation, the change to Ap being what most affect abilities damage is that so weapons for casters arent just a normal piece of gear compared to melee.

List a dk attack that scales off of weapon damage in bfa.

[Gib Lover]

Thats a fucking stupid way of thinking you dont need to be going for world first to have the class to perform well, i want to progress thru shit and be relevant to my group not be carried away by rogues, monks and mages.

You can get mad and sperg out all you want or you can click on the link and see that there are unholy in the top 10 DK parses of all but 2 of the fights so far. I want frost and unholy to both be buffed and I'm willing to bet of the 2 unholy probably will be within the next week or two but I'm telling you in my mythic guild myself and our other unh are performing well within the margins of "good" dps, though I'm probably going to be taking frost in on my next raid night.
But again lmao at me posting the logs and statistics and you fly off the handle.

[pay928]

You can get mad and sperg out all you want or you can click on the link and see that there are unholy in the top 10 DK parses of all but 2 of the fights so far. I want frost and unholy to both be buffed and I'm willing to bet of the 2 unholy probably will be within the next week or two but I'm telling you in my mythic guild myself and our other unh are performing well within the margins of "good" dps, though I'm probably going to be taking frost in on my next raid night.
But again lmao at me posting the logs and statistics and you fly off the handle.

I really wish you could just set multiple loot specs, since the only difference between dps loot is what weapons drop. With M+, it's a bit annoying to choose whether to spec UH or Frost for weapons since it's only 1 loot instead of by boss.

[Gib Lover]

I really wish you could just set multiple loot specs, since the only difference between dps loot is what weapons drop. With M+, it's a bit annoying to choose whether to spec UH or Frost for weapons since it's only 1 loot instead of by boss.

I feel you. Luckily by this point I have a pretty solid 2hander so I'm just going to set my spec to frost to try and grab some decent 1handers.

Also more complete data is coming in on overall class performances so far.
At 75th percentile, frost is pretty decently ahead of unholy. At peak performance, frost still stays pretty high up there and unholy slides down. Not sure what Captain Smoothbrain was complaining about a few posts up, even at 75th percentile both frost and unholy are beating mages and WW is sandwiched inbetween the two DK specs so if you are getting carried by them it's because you suck.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

[Kendros]

List a dk attack that scales off of weapon damage in bfa.

Google for the full equation of how abilities are calculated, weapon damage is there.

[boz0]

I really wish you could just set multiple loot specs, since the only difference between dps loot is what weapons drop. With M+, it's a bit annoying to choose whether to spec UH or Frost for weapons since it's only 1 loot instead of by boss.

Amen. /10char

- - - Updated - - -

I want frost and unholy to both be buffed and I'm willing to bet of the 2 unholy probably will be within the next week or two [...]

I have no idea how well we'll scale with gear, but I'm glad that frost is performing fairly well now (from the first warcraftlogs stats).
Compared to how bad it was when Legion launched, it's an unexpected pleasure, even if some mechanics need improving.

[Ange]

I have no idea how well we'll scale with gear, but I'm glad that frost is performing fairly well now (from the first warcraftlogs stats).
Compared to how bad it was when Legion launched, it's an unexpected pleasure, even if some mechanics need improving.

All I see is middle of the pack Frost parses with way above average BoS durations. I hope they buff unholys ST a bit or just kill BoS for good.

[Turboblaat]

just kill BoS for good.

Yes please, seen enough of that spec...

[ellieg]

Google for the full equation of how abilities are calculated, weapon damage is there.

I apologize, you are right. It seems to take the weapons dps into the calculation. At least from what I read in an article from Feb.

[Bisque]

Yes please, seen enough of that spec...

Worst part is if Blizz tunes frost DK only on how BOS is doing. So unless BOS starts to dip or bosses are to mobile/to many mechanics to get off a 20second + breath , then and only then will frost dk see any love (though I am just speculating).