Why did they even remove early flying? the game desperately needs it

[Simon_Moon]

I remember Cata leveling, fly any distance that is longer than your mount. It wasn't fun. Neither was racing to max level in any expansion. We did it because we agreed on it as a team. Now I'm old and casual and take much longer. Flying will be awesome whenever it gets released, as it was in Legion. And there will be a no fly zone like argus in the end game. Annoying terrain is part of the games design, and rewards players who know their way around.

[Laqweeta]

It's a game. I already have a job. Of course I'm lazy ingame. That's why I play it for relaxation. I get *paid* in real money to do my job. WoW gold is just play money.
Or do you not have one?

lmao we've found the LFR raider!

[Mafic]

WoD and Legion had shitty terrain. So, yeah, flying would make it less annoying and tedious. BfA is not that terrible. Flying would be just nice.

Some Blizz devs are finally listening to players as you can see in BFA zone design layout. Several feature terrace terrain design which is classic BC/WotLK. You could argue that Blizz it took it far with terrace design for Horde capital

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That's what I thought. Thanks for confirmation. That's probably why I don't freak about flying in WoW that much. I actually play other games that don't have it anyway.

The games that I do play actually feature flight though and is offered at low levels and is not gated.

[Wraethion]

You "like" to play the AH minigame but had to loan gold. lmao what

Are you blinder than those demon hunters with their blindfolds?

You could fly in Cata at the start. In Wrath at 77, in BC at 70, and in Pandaria at 90, wasn't it?

Sure as long as you had the wealth to afford the flight. Like if you wanted to fly when BC was the lastest expansion, you are looking at spending 6200g (now apply inflation).

To understand where that 6200g came from, you are paying for: 900g for basic flying, 100g for a basic flying mount (60% fly speed), 5000g for the next tier of flying, 200g for an epic flying mount (280% speed).

The only way around these prices was if you were really good at PvP as your rewards from back then were epic flying and an epic flying mount for free.

I remember this. My PvP friend (He got Grand Marshal in Vanilla) loaned me 500g so I could get flying. I did pay him back, but he loaned me the gold so I could fly up to Arcatraz and tank it for him and the rest of the guild group.

You were hasty in your retort in an attempt at taking a potshot at me and now are simply being unreasonable.

[Mafic]

Which is why Flight should be rewarded AFTER pathfinder a.k.a. beating the boss.

It's the same as getting new weaps / better gear and making the bossfight considerably easier and quicker to deal with.

And yes: most raiders I've met hate trash and would love to skip as much as possible because most trash is about as interesting to play through as munching a bowl of cornflakes.

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To be fair: that flight was 60% speed. A ground mount was often more efficient, esp considering that the mob density wasn't as absurd as it is now (barring enemy fortresses but that is okay) and terrain wasn't quite as convoluted as it is today.

Getting the 5K took A LONG time for a normal player back then, esp pre daily when it was mostly done through primal grinding. Easily comparable with how long it takes to unlock Pathfinder II.

Good post.

In a MMO you earn the rewards and you are rewarded the rewards. No time gating is necessary.

That is what a MMORPG is about. You put in the effort and you are rewarded.

[Mafic]

So did you and Wraethion just not get gathering professions and sit around the AH begging..? The tools were there, why didn't you utilize them? Fishing was so fucking lucrative in BC.

It's laziness, that's what it is.

Well said.

Lazy players will be lazy.

News at 11.

Meanwhile those that like flying always worked hard for their rewards as flying was a way to do quests, professions, rare hunting, exploring, etc.

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That's perfectly fine with me. Play what you like. If you don't like a game, please don't play it!

Then they should make no flying servers for ultra casuals like you.

[Witchblade77]

I had a job, and had to work. I tanked all the time for my guildies, and didn't go farm for stuff much. Different people play for different reasons.

The lack of flying wasn't bothering *me*. My friend wanted me to tank Arcatraz for him and his group, but I had to fly to do so. I didn't go begging him for gold so I could fly.

So take your attitude and stick it up your ass. Why you play the game does not necessarily have any relevance to me or anyone else.

consider for the moment.. that reverse applies? that different people play for different reasons and for people other then you, flight IS important and arbitrary restriction of flight IS a deal breaker. also flying up to Arcatrz didn't require epic flying, just flying. and its not like you friend couldn't ask a friendly warlock to summon you or anything. but again, no one here is begging for gold. just you know... giving acess to what we earned as soon as we earned it.

Blizzard is just trying to slow people down thinking that they will stay subscribed longer without them having to add more actual content, since everything takes so much more tedium without flight. I don't think its working they way they want it to work.

[Mafic]

Note that I have done the work for Pathfinder WoD and Legion, so I can fly in both places, and I have part 1 almost done in BFA. I just don't think it's needed at this point, and for now, Blizzard agrees with me. And, same as me, it is still your *opinion*. You have no facts to add to this.

Then they should make no flying servers for ultra casuals like you.

Nothing wrong if you can't put in the work to fly right now. Just admit you are ultra casual.

[Daevied]

I would love to have actual roads that leads me from point A to point B without a fking mountain with no path in between or trillions of mobs in middle of the roads, or you can just give me flying, thank you.

[Wraethion]

Then they should make no flying servers for ultra casuals like you.

Wouldn't such a server be for hardcore players? As flying "trivializes the content and makes it harder for WPVP". As you seem to be mixing the overused retorts.

[Mafic]

Wouldn't such a server be for hardcore players? As flying "trivializes the content and makes it harder for WPVP". As you seem to be mixing the overused retorts.

Why would no flying servers be for hardcore players?

I thought no flying is easier on casuals to enjoy the ground and pound experience?

[Mafic]

I have no quarrel with you.

I understand that your opinion is different from mine. I did not make the determination on when we are allowed to fly. Neither did you. Neither of us get to make the rules. All we can do is how we think it should be. On that we disagree. No harm done, imo. I'm still not dictating anything to you. Nor you dictating to me.

On the other hand, what you quoted was dipwad's poke at me for not taking up fishing or farming for gold all the time. He was trying to dictate to me that I should only play the game his way. That's not the same as choices not given to us. As far as I'm concerned whether my buddy loaned me gold to fly so I could tank for that same friend, or if I farmed/fished that gold is my business, and he has NO input about how/why/whether I go about those actions. Unlike current flying, those actions are not in dispute as to whether they are allowed by Blizzard or not. They are allowed. All of them. But he can kiss my ass if he thinks he has any right to dictate what or how or when I do those actions.

He might have triggered a pet peeve of mine as well...

Questing to unlock flying is a linear path with no choice.

In the past flying was unlocked via gold and the gold acquired came from any activity you desired.

The fact you missed the point and became triggered buy it is pure gold and I am floating in my heavenly plane right now.

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You're losing your coherence somewhere. Get that hating hat repainted.

I am consistent unlike no flyers that claim to be casual but then also claim to have part 1 of BFA patchfinder completed or near completed when the expansion hasn't even been out for a month.

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I would love to have actual roads that leads me from point A to point B without a fking mountain with no path in between or trillions of mobs in middle of the roads, or you can just give me flying, thank you.

Old Vanillas zones were designed this way with smaller paths outlined on the map with dotted lines. That is why vanilla which did not feature no flying is considered one of the better no flying MMORPG experiences.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't design zones this way so flying makes logical sense with current Blzzard design paradigm.

[Wraethion]

Why would no flying servers be for hardcore players?

I thought no flying is easier on casuals to enjoy the ground and pound experience?

The supposed casual players would want flying because they don't have to deal with packs of mobs, they can fly away to safety from pvpers, if they are a druid they can do WQ/Resource Gathering quicker than other classes, they don't have to deal with geometry puzzles (read: jump puzzles) in the open world.

[Mafic]

I'm short 2 reps from having Pathfinder part 1 completed for BFA. CoA and Tortellan are both between 6K and 12K. The rest are revered, and the rest of the requirements are done. But, yes, I'm a filthy casual, because usual people's measures of casualness is about how much you raid, and I do damned little of that anymore. I also only do enough AH to keep me about 500K gold. That's pretty casual in the AH tycoon business.

You are not casual if you are near completion.

Casuals are just starting the rep grind now and gearing up.

Also having half a million gold doesn't make you casual.

So a player like you that has finished the little content that Battle for Abilities offers why would you want to wait for flying to be unlocked till later? You are done or near down with the world content.

All the content left is in instances.

Thank you for proving to all of us that you don't have a logical reason to want no flying to continue.

[Witchblade77]

Then they should make no flying servers for ultra casuals like you.

Nothing wrong if you can't put in the work to fly right now. Just admit you are ultra casual.

I'm an ultra casual. and I like flight, I really really like and WANT flight. meanwhile, plenty hardcores either don't care, or are so hardcore - they actively dont WANT flight. please lets not make anymore assumptions here and turn them into insults? thank you.

[Mafic]

The supposed casual players would want flying because they don't have to deal with packs of mobs, they can fly away to safety from pvpers, if they are a druid they can do WQ/Resource Gathering quicker than other classes, they don't have to deal with geometry puzzles (read: jump puzzles) in the open world.

If the majority of WoW players are casual then there is no reason to gate flying. Thanks for proving my point.

[Witchblade77]

I have no quarrel with you.

I understand that your opinion is different from mine. I did not make the determination on when we are allowed to fly. Neither did you. Neither of us get to make the rules. All we can do is how we think it should be. On that we disagree. No harm done, imo. I'm still not dictating anything to you. Nor you dictating to me. Blizzard has made that decision.

On the other hand, what you quoted was dipwad's poke at me for not taking up fishing or farming for gold all the time. He was trying to dictate to me that I should only play the game his way. That's not the same as choices not given to us. As far as I'm concerned whether my buddy loaned me gold to fly so I could tank for that same friend, or if I farmed/fished that gold is my business, and he has NO input about how/why/whether I go about those actions. Unlike current flying, those actions are not in dispute as to whether they are allowed by Blizzard or not. They are allowed. All of them. But he can kiss my ass if he thinks he has any right to dictate what or how or when I do those actions.

He might have triggered a pet peeve of mine as well...

basically the idea that n one gets to tell us how to play is part of the reason why I very much dislike the no flight contingent. don't want to fly? don't fly. don't want to farm god? don't do it. becasue MY pet Peeve is a lot of "we don't want flying now or ever" people are the ones who try to dictate how others should play and enjoy WoW.

[Mafic]

I'm an ultra casual. and I like flight, I really really like and WANT flight. meanwhile, plenty hardcores either don't care, or are so hardcore - they actively dont WANT flight. please lets not make anymore assumptions here and turn them into insults? thank you.

The majority of people against flight are not casual or hardcore.

Hardcore players want to focus on other task than traveling to a world quest. Casual players have few hours a day to play.

The players that are against flight are the one that buy an expansion for a month, load up on micro transactions and bail.

They have no investment in the MMORPG game design from professions, questing, exploring, etc.

So I am proposing Blizzard make a no flying server for players like that. Cheers!

[Wraethion]

If the majority of WoW players are casual then there is no reason to gate flying. Thanks for proving my point.

If most players are ultra casuals, then you are an ultra casual or a closet-ultra casual.

[Mafic]

If most players are ultra casuals, then you are an ultra casual or a closet-ultra casual.

So then Blizzard should not gate flying.

Thanks for proving my point.