Is buying tokens and boosts from Blizzard considered cheating in WoW?

[OMGTwitchTV]

You could arguably call it pay-2-win, but cheating is something else.

No such thing as Pay-to-win in an MMO-RPG. I can't buy all of the mounts, achieves, gear, etc. I still have to play the game for most of the content. But if I could spend money to get everything in the game and not have to play any of it, then it is pay to win.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

No, I didn't.

Yes, you did. You didn't realize it because you don't have the mental facultities for it, but you said that it was cheating. "Nobody says it's not giving an unfair advantage" = the defacto defintion of the word "cheating." Your inability to process that doesn't matter one tinsy little bit.

"B-b-b-but Blizzard allows it! So it can't be cheating! HERP A DERP!" is the dumbest -- dumbest -- counterargument anyone can possibly make, and just look at how many people are making it.

Do you people not realize that the's called "rationalization?" The fact that you acknowledge that it could be cheating by any other means means somewhere, deep down in your tiny little ape-brains, you realize that it is cheating. But you fix it in that same primitive part of your brain with the aforementioned stupidity. "I mean, yeah, someone else is leveling my character and I'm getting gold I didn't earn, but Blizzard is doing it for me rather than a thrid party, so that makes it not-cheating! It's only cheating if I don't give my money to Blizzard! YEAH! THAT'S RATIONALE!!!! DUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPP!!!"

It's just... sad. And that's a genuine sad, not a Trump-type sad. Though something tells me a lot of you are Trump supporters as well.

[Erwarth]

I want to remind you this fact : It's the player buying the totem who give his gold to the player selling it.

You want to stop player making gold out of $$ ? Stop buying tokens and pay your sub with $$

[OMGTwitchTV]

I want to remind you this fact : It's the player buying the totem who give his gold to the player selling it.

You want to stop player making gold out of $$ ? Stop buying tokens and pay your sub with $$

Agreed. We'd have far fewer people subbed without the use of tokens. One man's gold is another man's subscription.

[Samin]

Nope, just tired of repeating myself.

Forbes: Microtransactions (aka, pay2win) is the new form of cheat codes.

Uhoh spaghetti-o.

Is that your goto? Forbes said so?

Reality check: Pay2Win is replacing cheat codes in many places, because it's hard to sell microtransactions if you can just achieve the same thing by typing in a code. That doesn't mean it is the same as cheat codes. A big issue with microtransactions is that it's not like cheat codes at all. Games are not designed to be cheated through. But nowadays games are designed to highly encourage microtransactions, sometimes to ridiculous levels (e.g. Shadows of War) where the game effectively doesn't work as intended without them.

Just because a level boost is like something you might do with a cheat, doesn't mean it's a cheat. If you look something up in an open book exam, that's not cheating, that is how it's supposed to go. If you try to look something up in a "regular" exam, that's cheating. Circumstances matter. Level boosts and tokens are sanctioned short cuts. They're definitely pay2win, but that's a whole different discussion.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Is that your goto? Forbes said so?

Reality check: Pay2Win is replacing cheat codes in many places, because it's hard to sell microtransactions if you can just achieve the same thing by typing in a code. That doesn't mean it is the same as cheat codes. A big issue with microtransactions is that it's not like cheat codes at all. Games are not designed to be cheated through. But nowadays games are designed to highly encourage microtransactions, sometimes to ridiculous levels (e.g. Shadows of War) where the game effectively doesn't work as intended without them.

Just because a level boost is like something you might do with a cheat, doesn't mean it's a cheat. If you look something up in an open book exam, that's not cheating, that is how it's supposed to go. If you try to look something up in a "regular" exam, that's cheating. Circumstances matter. Level boosts and tokens are sanctioned short cuts. They're definitely pay2win, but that's a whole different discussion.

Unless you can buy 30k achievement points, all the gear, all the mounts, pets, toys, etc... there is no "winning" an MMO. You might give yourself an advantage, but Pay-to-win is a buzz phrase and more people would stop using it if they understood what it actually means.

[Samin]

Unless you can buy 30k achievement points, all the gear, all the mounts, pets, toys, etc... there is no "winning" an MMO. You might give yourself an advantage, but Pay-to-win is a buzz phrase and more people would stop using it if they understood what it actually means.

There is no winning an MMO. None of this matters, you will never get a "you win" message, except maybe on a bit of an ironic fourth-wall-breaking meta level.

I guess there is a subjective cheating, like save-scumming, or prescient planning/min-maxing ("I know you're going to turn on me, so I'm going to give you crap gear"). Pay2win certainly can count as that, but that's subjective (in contrast to the problems pay2win causes in game design which are objectively bad).

Unless we're just gatekeeping here and "any way to play the game that isn't how I play it, is cheating" literally removing any meaning from the word, like people did with literally.

[OMGTwitchTV]

There is no winning an MMO. None of this matters, you will never get a "you win" message, except maybe on a bit of an ironic fourth-wall-breaking meta level.

I guess there is a subjective cheating, like save-scumming, or prescient planning/min-maxing ("I know you're going to turn on me, so I'm going to give you crap gear"). Pay2win certainly can count as that, but that's subjective (in contrast to the problems pay2win causes in game design which are objectively bad).

Unless we're just gatekeeping here and "any way to play the game that isn't how I play it, is cheating" literally removing any meaning from the word, like people did with literally.

If I do it without Blizzard's knowledge, or consent, or violate the Terms of Use to accomplish my goals... then yes. I am cheating. If I purchase services offered by Blizz, I am not cheating. I wish more people had the common sense to understand this. I make good money, and WoW is one of two hobbies. So if I drop $300 on tokens, and $120 on boosts once in awhile, that is on me. If nothing else, the microtransactions support more content. People should be kissing my ass for the amount of money I spend to play WoW

[Schizoide]

Selling tokens is cheating, because you're exchanging real money for gold. Buying them isn't.

Boosts are obviously cheating, as they are again exchanging real money for an in-game benefit.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Selling tokens is cheating, because you're exchanging real money for gold. Buying them isn't.

Boosts are obviously cheating, as they are again exchanging real money for an in-game benefit.

You are obviously not familiar with the word cheat, or it's definition.

[Schizoide]

You are obviously not familiar with the way adults have a conversation. Attack the post, not the poster.

[chrisnumbers]

Depends on who you ask. If you ask Blizzard, no, it's not cheating, since it's not against their TOS. If you ask anyone else, well, their opinions don't matter at all since Blizzard allows it.

[OMGTwitchTV]

You are obviously not familiar with the way adults have a conversation. Attack the post, not the poster.

Ok then, allow me to attack your post:

"Selling tokens is cheating, because you're exchanging real money for gold. Buying them isn't."

Selling tokens: Blizzard sells the tokens to the user with the express permission with two uses. You can either use it yourself, which is silly since a game time purchase is cheaper, or you can sell it in the AH with Blizz's full knowledge knowing you just spent $20 for one month's playtime, allowing a fellow player to purchase it with gold, thus allowing that user to play for free and NOT be limited to level 20. Purchasing and selling tokens are supported by Blizz and their terms of use. Buying and selling is not a bannable offense, and are therefore not cheating. Cheating is defined as breaking the rules and gaining an advantage dishonestly, such as botting, speed hacks, flight hacks, etc. Paying real money for services outside of the Blizzard game shop is cheating.

"Boosts are obviously cheating, as they are again exchanging real money for an in-game benefit."

Boosts come in two types: free with every expansion, and paid for in the Blizzard shop. As Blizzard fully condones and supports BOTH options, it is therefore not cheating. If you buy a boost, you do not get banned for cheating. If you USE a boost, you do not get banned for cheating. Boosting does not offer an unfair advantage. You are not boosting to level cap and getting Mythic+ or Mythic raid gear. You get 10 levels BELOW cap, and 178 quest greens. The ONLY advantage you have is bypassing the previous content, but then you are at a disadvantage when it comes to starting out since quest greens in BFA start above ilvl 200. Since Blizz is the ONLY one who can sell the boost legally, and execute an instant boost, it is not cheating, as cheating is against their terms of use.

[Stymie]

Wrong. The best part is your own definition proves it.


Do you see that emphasized word? It doesn't mean "and." And yes, it is unfair when some people are able to get advantages that other people are incapable of getting due to their financial restrictions.

Just because it's "legit" doesn't mean it's not cheating. Just like having a godmode or using wall clipping in a video game is still cheating, even if it was put there by the developers themselves.

This is actually a take on a very classic issue in economics. Depending on personal life circumstances, everyone has differing values of time and money, and frequently value one over the other. Someone who has the money to buy tokens could just as easily say that it's not fair that others get advantages they cannot due to their personal time restrictions.

After the first tier of content in an expansion, someone can usually only equip 2-3 items at current raid tier quality via BOEs. People who have more time to put into a game are likely always going to have an advantage over those who try to buy BOEs.

[Schizoide]

As Blizzard fully condones and supports BOTH options, it is therefore not cheating.

No. Blizzard has their definition, you have yours, and I have mine.

By your definition, Blizzard could go all-in on pay2win and that still wouldn't be cheating. That seems silly to me, because the integrity of the game is what truly matters. But you're welcome to your opinion.

[dope_danny]

More like being a rube honestly. Its paying to not play a game you want to use in game currency to pay to have not played by paying real money for a boost.

I wouldn't call it cheating but more like a heavy sign that maybe you don't actually like the videogame you are forcing yourself to play.

[OMGTwitchTV]

No. Blizzard has their definition, you have yours, and I have mine.

By your definition, Blizzard could go all-in on pay2win and that still wouldn't be cheating. That seems silly to me, because the integrity of the game is what truly matters. But you're welcome to your opinion.

If Blizz won't ban me for cheating... it's not cheating. Pretty simple. Just look at the poll. Several hundred people understand the ACTUAL definition of cheating.

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More like being a rube honestly. Its paying to not play a game you want to use in game currency to pay to have not played by paying real money for a boost.

I wouldn't call it cheating but more like a heavy sign that maybe you don't actually like the videogame you are forcing yourself to play.

I enjoy it so much I keep throwing money at it. If I hated it, there are plenty of Free to Play games I could transition to.

[Schizoide]

It's obviously a subjective question, unless you think the OP was asking whether Blizzard would ban you for buying a boost from the Blizzard store.

[rhorle]

No. Blizzard has their definition, you have yours, and I have mine. By your definition, Blizzard could go all-in on pay2win and that still wouldn't be cheating. That seems silly to me, because the integrity of the game is what truly matters. But you're welcome to your opinion.

It wouldn't be cheating. Pay to win is not inherently cheating. A cheat depends on the rules of the game. What is a cheat for one game can be normal rules for another.

Blizzard making it with in the rules of normal game play to buy/sell tokens and to buy character boosts makes it no longer cheating to do. The integrity of the game is not what truly matters to you though because you said only selling tokens is cheating. Buying tokens is what makes selling them have a point. You can't separate the two unless your motive is to blindly hate on something.

[Schizoide]

Pay2win is inherently cheating because it damages the integrity of the game. That is my answer to this subjective question.

Selling tokens is pay2win, because you're exchanging real money for an in-game advantage, gold. Buying tokens is exchanging in-game gold to subscribe to the game, which grants access but no actual advantage over any other player. You're right that one can't exist without the other, of course.