Why doesn't anyone talk about Bards?

[Felmourn]

I'm a huge fan of the bard class, I've enjoyed some ideas of making it a profession and other ideas. Something I thought of because people were discussing weapon types.
The bard could have a few different things go for them.

Melee tank(ot) - Battleshouts (no instrument- small shield and 1hand weapon)
DPS(open discussion for ranged vs melee)- Can use bows or 2h/1h weapons. While wielding their weapon(or sheathed) they summon a magical instrument and play it(drums, eolian, flute, etc)
Caster Healer - Hymn (Staff/healer weps-could include 1h + shield/full blown instruments in order to heal)

[Tiwack]

We like things quiet.

[Ferg]

Is Lucio from Overwatch a bard?

Yes, in every sense of the concept.

[Bosen]

Hearthsinger, ETC and Blightboar, Chi-ji, Atramedes, Imperial Vizier Zor'lok, Russell Brower, Murmur. There are a lot of characters who utilize sound magic, it's just that not all of them are walking around with lutes.

An interesting point! Perhaps the WoW version of Bard pays homage to these beings or where they gather power from.

[Hitei]

Virtually none of those are bards in WoW. ETC and blightboar don't fight with music, Atramedes uses sound because he's blind, Chi-ji sings because it is a bird, Zor'lok is using sound-based insectoid mind control and blasts noise as combat, and Murmur is a bizarre dimensional monstrosity.
Bards that use music in combat really have next to no presence in WoW. I'm not saying they won't ever exist but the examples ingame are poor at best.

All of them are bards in essence, which is all that is necessary. Chen was a Brewmaster, not a monk, because "monks" as they existed in wow pre-MoP were just the scarlets who were unarmed. Chen was a character whose kit and theme fit well with the conceptual monk and so was used as a main stepping stone for the monk class. In exactly the same way, there are a handful of literal bards in wow (Hearthsinger, Russell, and Zor'lok are all literal bards), but there are a lot of characters who use kits heavily steeped in the bard thematic (read: sound/music based magic).

ETC is shown as being perfectly capable of using magic to fight, and both bands are able to cast magic with music, they simply don't fight. Not fighting =/= not able to. Zor'lok is literally a fucking bard. One of his primary mechanics involves singing a damaging song, attenuation is literally a phenomenon that comes out of music and sound technology, just because he isn't strumming a harp doesn't change what he is. Murmur is a primordial sound elemental who is one of the oldest beings in existence, and represents an easy power source to draw from. Atramedes' reasons for using sound magic don't somehow make him not a sound magic-user, and likewise Chi-ji being a bird doesn't change that his entire kit is singing songs to heal/damage in typical bard fashion.

What you have for bards is literally more than monks ever had pre-MoP.

Monk took an iconic fantasy archetype, pulled themes and some abilities from an existing, minor WC3 character, and then extrapolated all the rest of the class from the pandaren theme and the fantasy archetype (agile, meditative, fist-using, chi, etc.)

Bard is an iconic fantasy archetype, with several existing minor characters one of which is also a hots character, a WC3 unit (kodo beast), which has also has a large pool of existing creatures to pull abilities and thematics from for the sound/music theme in addition to the fantasy archetype.

There is literally no reason bard couldn't be done.

[Irian]

All of them are bards in essence, which is all that is necessary. Chen was a Brewmaster, not a monk, because "monks" as they existed in wow pre-MoP were just the scarlets who were unarmed. Chen was a character whose kit and theme fit well with the conceptual monk and so was used as a main stepping stone for the monk class. In exactly the same way, there are a handful of literal bards in wow (Hearthsinger, Russell, and Zor'lok are all literal bards), but there are a lot of characters who use kits heavily steeped in the bard thematic (read: sound/music based magic).

ETC is shown as being perfectly capable of using magic to fight, and both bands are able to cast magic with music, they simply don't fight. Not fighting =/= not able to. Zor'lok is literally a fucking bard. One of his primary mechanics involves singing a damaging song, attenuation is literally a phenomenon that comes out of music and sound technology, just because he isn't strumming a harp doesn't change what he is. Murmur is a primordial sound elemental who is one of the oldest beings in existence, and represents an easy power source to draw from. Atramedes' reasons for using sound magic don't somehow make him not a sound magic-user, and likewise Chi-ji being a bird doesn't change that his entire kit is singing songs to heal/damage in typical bard fashion.

What you have for bards is literally more than monks ever had pre-MoP.

Monk took an iconic fantasy archetype, pulled themes and some abilities from an existing, minor WC3 character, and then extrapolated all the rest of the class from the pandaren theme and the fantasy archetype (agile, meditative, fist-using, chi, etc.)

Bard is an iconic fantasy archetype, with several existing minor characters one of which is also a hots character, a WC3 unit (kodo beast), which has also has a large pool of existing creatures to pull abilities and thematics from for the sound/music theme in addition to the fantasy archetype.

There is literally no reason bard couldn't be done.

These aren't bards, though. A bard in fantasy is generally accepted as an entertainer or musician who uses instruments or voice.
Zor'lok's actual role is in his name, he's not a bard. Using soundwaves does not make you a bard. Speaking of songs does not make you a bard. He shoots soundwaves as a means of combat and also uses his attenuation to control the hive. It's based on the mantid's roots as an insectoid race that can be compelled through vibrations, not an oral entertainer of any sort.
ETC is not shown in WoW as being capable of fighting, it's a band that plays instruments. If you mean HotS, HotS says in its own lore that that ETC is not the WoW ETC and is more of a manifestation of the spirit of rock music. If he existed in WoW you'd have a point but he doesn't, the ETC in WoW is clearly made of a myriad of different characters that all have their own respective classes and don't engage in any sort of music-based combat whatsoever.
Chi-ji is a bird. Birds sing. That's like saying that every crane you see in MoP (many of them also use a birdsong-based ability) is a bard.

You saying these things are bards is like saying priests are bards because they have an ability called Psychic Scream and their Hymns. It's sound and music based yet but it's not really not in any way a bard. I mean hell, priest hymns are closer to a bard concept than literally any of the other examples you used.

And read what I said above. I'm not opposed to the idea but it as of yet has little to no representation within the game. Forresten might be the only example of a bard played straight though, which means that they really don't have the kind of representation a necromancer or tinker has. Hell, there are two tinkers that you can actually witness in combat in island expeditions.

If you want an argument in favor of bards though you should look to Hearthstone. It's an actual canonically in-universe magical boardgame that depicts bards in like 3+ cards, likely implying that bards are in fact a thing in WoW but we just haven't had the chance to see them yet.

[endersblade]

I think they could very easily be added to WoW...Buff/support and primary damage is DoT.

[Sastank]

Because you're posting on WoW forum section and they're not in this game?

[Teriz]

If that was the case, Mists of Pandara would have sold poorly, all things considered. That was not the case. We don't need a "major lore figure" to link to the bard class. To say we "need to" is wrong.

Blizzard would appear to disagree, since they've tied each expansion class to a major lore figure.

Not that it matters. Next?

You seriously believe that tying a new class to an existing lore character, or putting a major lore figure on the cover of an expansion has no effect whatsoever?

"Legendary status within the Horde." Wow, that's a laugh. He was barely at all in the game, and that was just in a teeny-tiny quest chain in the Barrens that was not part of the main quest line, and you'd start it only if you happened to find the quest-starting keg that is somewhere around Barrens. I'm willing to bet good money a sizable portion of the playerbase at the time leveled through the Barrens and never even saw that keg.

Except all of that was canon. So according to canon, Chen helped Thrall and Rexxar save Orgimmar from Jaina Proudmoore's father.

One quest line. One, single, teeny-tiny quest line which you'd have to be lucky to find the lost keg around that tiny zone called "The Barrens".


Chen Stormstout doesn't even compare to Arthas in terms of significance.

I never said he did. However, he has always been a major character in Warcraft. If we can attach the Bard to an equivalent character, the class concept has a chance.

[Haven]

No. Just a brewmaster. Just a guy that makes beer.

And also beats people to death with a staff. Which is a monk thing. And wears a Chinese outfit. And is a monk spec.

Yes, he is. Read his bio. Everything he did describes the bard to a 'T'.

Except it's not a class. He's just a Warrior who played a piccolo.

Hell, there's a Postmaster ghost in Stratholme... Give us the Postmaster class! Using paper, hurling parcels, and most of all, manipulating time and space to delay those deliveries and lose the cargo in the infinite bowels of the post system...

You're allowed to laugh at your own strawman. I know everyone else is.

All those people in your head sure are laughing

Well depends on how strict your definition of a Bard is, TBH. There has been numerous accounts of music tied to War in Warcraft.

Kodo Riders in Warcraft 3 played drums in battle and boosted the damage of all nearby units, flinging their axes all the while.

The entire Warsong Clan is named aptly, after the war songs they sing in battle to terrify their enemies. Songs are even used in Grom Hellscream's lines in Warcraft 2.

The only song I can recall from Warsong clan is "RRRRRAAAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRGHHHHH!!!". Although there's also the remix called " RRRRRAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHRRRR!!!".

[Jonnusthegreat]

literally only dragon age ever did bards in a good way, and that's covered by assassin rogues in wow.

that stupid meme shit of playing a lute in combat has no place in wow. it's just dumb.

EQ2 and Rift both did bards extremely well!

[gobio]

We have adventurers that travels to a different planets, (helped) defeated TITANS.

Now you come back to our own planet, do you see any one singing our adventurers in Tavern? So where do you suddenly seeing bard? Unless you pull a panda expansion and bard comes from kitten land....

[Alpharius]

We have adventurers that travels to a different planets, (helped) defeated TITANS.

Now you come back to our own planet, do you see any one singing our adventurers in Tavern? So where do you suddenly seeing bard? Unless you pull a panda expansion and bard comes from kitten land....

Kodo wardrummers in the warfront


Edit:

Wardrummers have been a theme in warcraft for a long time and in game they actually give effects.

So bards have been around. If they will be ever playable is another thing, but bards exist in warcraft.

[Kemsa]

Bards are different depending on the game, like:

Ragnarok Online Bards, Minstrels and clowns are ltierally the singers/instrument supports, with humor abilities and evolved from Archer class.

Dungeons and Dragons Bards are literally fighter rogues with love of the music, with diferent buffs for the party and themselfs, literally a Robin hood singing while he fights.

Neverwinter Nights its literally a devolved form of the D&D based on you chosing your own path (half bard half warrior half mage half orc)

EQ the one buffer pet that stays behind singing.

Archage had something in between that its Instruments that everyone can use and you regain mana or hp depending ont he instrument.


SO BASED UPON THIS, HOW WORLD OF WARCRAFT COULD INTRODUCE A BARD STYLE CLASS.
Simple, make something unique like a "range 1 onehanded caster that use diferent instruments as abilities to give mana, hp temporary buff, like the old Hysteria remember that?, so to go and buff diferent parts of the raid. Etc Etc

[Ielenia]

Blizzard would appear to disagree, since they've tied each expansion class to a major lore figure.

There you go again, stating as fact that you need a "major lore figure" to create a new class. When will you prove that claim of yours, Teriz?

You seriously believe that tying a new class to an existing lore character, or putting a major lore figure on the cover of an expansion has no effect whatsoever?

I said it does not matter if there is no "legendary status lore character" to base a class from. Simple as that. You keep claiming as a fact that you need one to make a new class. And you have yet to present a single quote from Blizzard stating that.

Except all of that was canon. So according to canon, Chen helped Thrall and Rexxar save Orgimmar from Jaina Proudmoore's father.

I'm still waiting for any canon mention of this so-called "legendary status within the Horde" that Chen somehow possessed before Mists of Pandaria.

I never said he did. However, he has always been a major character in Warcraft.

He wasn't. He was a minor character, and a very obscure one, at that. Very few people knew who Chen Stormstout was. Sure, most may have heard of the name while questing in the Barrens, but few knew who Chen really was. So much so we got all that "Kung Fu Panda" shit-show when MoP was announced and throughout the entire expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

And also beats people to death with a staff. Which is a monk thing.

No. It's a thing of everyone who is holding a staff and is being attacked. Attacking with a staff is not exclusive to monks. Especially in a game without classes.

And wears a Chinese outfit.

So does the overwhelming majority of fantasy oriental characters.

And is a monk spec.

After the fact.

You're three for three in being wrong, here.

Except it's not a class. He's just a Warrior who played a piccolo.

Now you're being grossly disingenuous. His entire bio describes him as a bard, in such great detail that the fact they never used the word 'bard' is completely negligible. To say "he's just a warrior who plays a piccolo" is so disingenuous it borders on blatant dishonesty.

[tru]

It sounds lame... the biggest successes have been dark / demonic. Me personally ive played the DK starting zone 20+ times...(RiP my main died with the start of legion and death of 2h frost)
Played DH eh like 1 1/2? lol
Kung pow panda turtle land once.
To each their own. Its all gotta fit a theme and be awesome.. and strumming a instrument does not sound badass in anyway and unless its extremely OP youll have something played less than rogues/monks.... sorry. Doing some island crap I can sadly say i think we will get some kinda tinker shit next go round. We haven't gotten another talent line in quite some time and DH only got 2 specs. They are overdue on "wow"ing us... ha!...

[Villager720]

Priests already have some musical elements, but powered by the Light (Loa/Elune/etc). Potential class fantasy thievery again. #demonhunters

Besides that, we have never seen “magical songs” represented in any meaningful way within the lore or game. For singing songs to suddenly rival the power of the Legion or the Scourge would just be bizarre, jarring, and bad.

[Alpharius]

Priests already have some musical elements, but powered by the Light (Loa/Elune/etc). Potential class fantasy thievery again. #demonhunters

Besides that, we have never seen “magical songs” represented in any meaningful way within the lore or game. For singing songs to suddenly rival the power of the Legion or the Scourge would just be bizarre, jarring, and bad.

wardrummers are everywhere

[Haven]

No. It's a thing of everyone who is holding a staff and is being attacked. Attacking with a staff is not exclusive to monks. Especially in a game without classes.

So does the overwhelming majority of fantasy oriental characters.

After the fact.

You're three for three in being wrong, here.

Chen Stormstout is a pandaren monk of a brewmaster spec. Did you not play MoP? You could as well say that Grom Hellscream was never a warrior, he was a blademaster, and it's a different thing that just happens to look like a warrior, fight like a warrior and have the same abilities as a warrior.

Now you're being grossly disingenuous. His entire bio describes him as a bard, in such great detail that the fact they never used the word 'bard' is completely negligible. To say "he's just a warrior who plays a piccolo" is so disingenuous it borders on blatant dishonesty.

Except his bio doesn't. Where does it mention the magic of music? His exploits that he accomplished exclusively with his songs and tunes? If you want a bard class, take his toy and you'll be just as much of a bard as he was.

[Ielenia]

Chen Stormstout is a pandaren monk of a brewmaster spec. Did you not play MoP?

After the fact. That is one very important detail that you are blatantly ignoring. Chen was made into a monk after the fact. In other words, after the class was made. He was not a monk back in Warcraft 3.

You could as well say that Grom Hellscream was never a warrior, he was a blademaster, and it's a different thing that just happens to look like a warrior, fight like a warrior and have the same abilities as a warrior.

Not even close to being the same thing. Grom Hellscream in WC3 may not be a "warrior", but that's in name only. The way he acted, spoke and behaved as well as his descriptions pictured him as someone that anyone would call a 'warrior'. WC3 Chen Stormstout? Nothing about him was monk-like. He was just a drunk pandaren who loved to make beers. The only connection to oriental monks... was that both were oriental-based. That's it.

Except his bio doesn't. Where does it mention the magic of music?

Music can be used to cast spells. It's within the game, already, in many, many different sources.

His exploits that he accomplished exclusively with his songs and tunes?

No one said he's an accomplished adventurer. You want a bard, you got a bard. It's just not developed because, shock of all shocks, it's not a class yet. But if you want one, just look at Russell Brower. He helps you stop a minion of the Old Gods, then helps you fight the minions of Ragnaros in Hyjal.