Are warfronts supposed to be an infinite source of gear?

[Better]

"Get some friends together and run M0/M+!"
I do. With my MAIN. I do not with an Alt that i use for herbalism and disenchanting. And the majority of players do not have any friends to run content with. The majority of players also does not play well. And this majority currently gets an ilvl340 item every 15-30 minutes with zero Q time on the Horde. While the same majority on the Alliance side can sit in a dungeon Q for 40 minutes to get LESS.

So this is somehow a major issue that Horde are getting crystals, such a huge issue that in 2 weeks crystals will be worth less than they currently are, however not a big enough issue for your main to be an enchanter so it actually gets the crystals right now? 1 crystal every 30~ mins is horrible return for the grind you'd be doing.

One of the two factions had to start with the Warfront owned by them, lorewise it makes sense that the Alliance, who are not only using fortifications that have been in the game forever, but also basically owns the continent the Warfront is on would be the first ones to own it. If there's a Barrens Warfront Horde will probably own that one first, and you guys get to have the catch-up mechanic first, while Horde gets the in-zone content first.

[Nathasil]

So this is somehow a major issue that Horde are getting crystals, such a huge issue that in 2 weeks crystals will be worth less than they currently are, however not a big enough issue for your main to be an enchanter so it actually gets the crystals right now? 1 crystal every 30~ mins is horrible return for the grind you'd be doing.

One of the two factions had to start with the Warfront owned by them, lorewise it makes sense that the Alliance, who are not only using fortifications that have been in the game forever, but also basically owns the continent the Warfront is on would be the first ones to own it. If there's a Barrens Warfront Horde will probably own that one first, and you guys get to have the catch-up mechanic first, while Horde gets the in-zone content first.

No it had not. There was ZERO reason to not have both factions start at the same time. Tell me one, JUST ONE, reason why it had to be time shifted?
By the same reasoning you could argue Uldir should have opened 2 weeks later for the Alliance, because they have to sail across the ocean first while the Horde is already there.

I would also like to ask the developers the same question.....but i guess we all know the answer:
"You want gear for Alts when it actually gives you an advantage and mats are still worth a damn? You know...the Horde is there for you."

The "discussion" with you is pointless...yes, i can farm crystals with my friends faster in M+ than sitting afk in a scenario that i can Q up 24/7 with no Q time solo. You are totally right. You are also totally missing the point.

Edit:
And just to give one comment that is on the same level as your responses so far: If i get the same 4 friends together that i can smash M+ in 15minutes per dungeon with to Q WFs...we will smash that in the same time and get 5 Items. Which is almost twice the 3 dropps from M+. Was this a valuable contribution to the discussion? No, it was not. But it is still 100% true.

[Better]

No it had not. There was ZERO reason to not have both factions start at the same time. Tell me one, JUST ONE, reason why it had to be time shifted?
By the same reasoning you could argue Uldir should have opened 2 weeks later for the Alliance, because they have to sail across the ocean first while the Horde is already there.

I would also like to ask the developers the same question.....but i guess we all know the answer:
"You want gear for Alts when it actually gives you an advantage and mats are still worth a damn? You know...the Horde is there for you."

The "discussion" with you is pointless...yes, i can farm crystals with my friends faster in M+ than sitting afk in a scenario that i can Q up 24/7 with no Q time solo. You are totally right. You are also totally missing the point.

Warfronts from day 1 in beta were known that factions would alternate control. There are 4 states they can be in;
Alliance owned, Horde preparing
Alliance owned, Horde attacking
Horde owned, Alliance preparing
Horde owned, Alliance attacking
They will cycle in this order.
When your faction owns the Warfront you get the world content. When your faction is attacking you get the scenario. This is just how it's designed, so no both factions couldn't be attacking at the same time.

[Thelxi]

For now it's a generous bribe to get us into the whole warfront 1-month cycle thing. A couple of months from now 340 gear is not going to be anything special.

[Zelion]

I mean if you want to sit in a scenario for 24 hours hoping for a titanforge more power to you. You're going to have a higher item level average actually doing raids and mythic+


Never understood these cry threads about catch up gear that doesn't impact anyone who actually plays the game on a consistent basis. Yeah, some people get a lucky titanforge. You can also get it doing any other content. If I'm 360 I'm not going to bother doing 340 content hoping for a titanforge.

because its basically a catch up system 3 weeks into the expansion. This kills the world, kills heroic dungeons, kills m0 dungeons. Why do anything else when you get better rewards afking for <30mins for a 340+ piece (+ a free 370+ for doing nothing). Also free 340s for zerging around killing rares in Arathi. Theres 0 content in the entire zone. Who is this content for? If I was a person that didnt raid or do m+ I would quit in a heartbeat. It makes absolutely zero sense to have this in its current form.

[Otimus]

because its basically a catch up system 3 weeks into the expansion. This kills the world, kills heroic dungeons, kills m0 dungeons. Why do anything else when you get better rewards afking for <30mins for a 340+ piece (+ a free 370+ for doing nothing). Also free 340s for zerging around killing rares in Arathi. Theres 0 content in the entire zone. Who is this content for? If I was a person that didnt raid or do m+ I would quit in a heartbeat. It makes absolutely zero sense to have this in its current form.

Kills Uldir LFR too, and probably kneecaps ultra-casual PVP too. I actually had no idea they dropped 340's at the end until they came out. It super sapped the wind out of my sails for doing LFR. All I'm going to be able to get there are rings and trinkets, and maybe a few items with better itemized stats. Wooo. I'm pretty much quitting once it's all out until another content patch. (If I bothered to do normal, I'd do it, then quit immediately.)

Character progression is all I play WoW for. Once I can't do that, you've pretty much sapped all my interest until I can do more of it within the confines of what I want to do.

[Nathreim]

Right now I don't see much point in doing anything other than chain running warfronts fishing for titanforging procs if you want to get good gear.

Its way faster to do Mythic 0 for gear.

[Thelxi]

340 gear makes alts friendly, we are past that now. Anyone else who is complaining and crying in this thread aren't. Really, it's that simple. So I can try to make it clear for those that are still complaining about it being a gear gate for raiding:

If this event is your gate, your breaking point in your raid and your server or world standing in progression I have bad news. You have missed the boat already. My guild is semi-casual and probably have 80+ of our raid right at 350 and that was prior to the WF coming out. If the WF was your gate the world spun around you and you missed the opportunity to just put a little prep work in and do your mythic + 5 mans like everyone else did to get ready.

WF is a way to gear up alts or help a few professions along, that is it. Nothing to see here.

Quote someone else this has nothing to do with my post.

[enragedgorilla]

I don't see having many different ,decent ways of gearing as a bad thing.
It helps Alts/rerolls.
Doesn't require raiding or endless pvp to get decent performance gear.
Raiders and Pvp folks still get their special "big ilvl" numbers and color skins, everyone else gets to do content and feel a little more powerful as they go.

[f3llyn]

Couldn't really care less about the gear but I do want the transmogs. So I'll run it until I have what I want.

[Zelion]

I find it amusing that you feel 340 baseline drops from WFs killed alliance progression in raiding...that in itself tells me and anyone else with any common knowledge that tears are tears and they only effect how wet your face gets and not raiding or anything else for that matter.

Most raiders were way past 340 before warfronts came out in the first place. I was working on 350 before I ever set food in a raid or even thought about setting food in a raid. Tell me again how this will kill anything again?

This for most it's an alt farm to make dailies easier to do each day.

This isn't about raiders. Put on your thinking cap for once and stop thinking about yourself. This is about the 95% of the casual player base that this is their main "content progression." When they quit the game it hurts you indirectly. You want more people playing the game not less.

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Its way faster to do Mythic 0 for gear.

I highly doubt for the casual player getting into a mythic group and running the dungeon and not guaranteed a drop is not faster than doing a warfront. Plus you can only do them once a week.

- - - Updated - - -

340 gear makes alts friendly, we are past that now. Anyone else who is complaining and crying in this thread aren't. Really, it's that simple. So I can try to make it clear for those that are still complaining about it being a gear gate for raiding:

If this event is your gate, your breaking point in your raid and your server or world standing in progression I have bad news. You have missed the boat already. My guild is semi-casual and probably have 80+ of our raid right at 350 and that was prior to the WF coming out. If the WF was your gate the world spun around you and you missed the opportunity to just put a little prep work in and do your mythic + 5 mans like everyone else did to get ready.

WF is a way to gear up alts or help a few professions along, that is it. Nothing to see here.

You're totally missing the boat here. This isn't about the people raiding. 90% of the playerbase doesn't raid normal+, let alone get to a +5 at this point.

[Zelion]

Not sure how this would make a portion of casual players quit, makes no sense. I am a casual player, we raid, will down all of heroic and do some mythic bosses before next content patch. We are all adults, most with kids, jobs ect… and we are past 340 gear. If anything the alt hungry LFR/Normal/mythic players will appreciate not having to grind so hard to be relevant. I see nothing bad coming of WF except people complaining to complain.

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And statistics show 90% of people quoting statistics make them up to help prove a point. Making the game more casual friend will make them quit? Do tell.... I am generally trying here, not trying to be rude. Tell me how making a game more accessible for the exact base of players will make them mad and quit. I honestly want to know.

From armory statistics. How does giving away gear make it more casual friendly. These are the people that arent going to raid. LFR maybe and thats it. Giving them about their max gear level they are going to attain for the patch in the FIRST 3 WEEKS of the expansion, even before LFR, ruins any kind of progression.

If you are doing heroic raiding you aren't casual. Casual is not about the time you play, at least my definition of it. And there's nothing wrong with being casual.

If you look up a few posts you will see exactly what I am talking about.

[Ghoulcrypt]

it does seem to be a good wear to hit 340, i did it on a horde alt. It takes a while but with buds its fun.

[Zelion]

Ok well that makes more sense and although I am trying to keep up with treads I will miss posts or miss quote like I did with Thelxi earlier. That being said, the WF is much like doing a standard normal mythic in my eyes, normally takes the players more time as well. So if anything I would like to see more requirements of the WF, more challenges and maybe different levels much like the island expeditions. But no, I don't think it will cause them to quit. Personally I feel like it will cause them and allow them to be more relevant in game.

It will help LFG for raids, 5 mans and mythic dungeons throughout the week outside of raiding and will help fill pug spots in raids that need them. A lot do from my experience. Being more relevant makes you more relevant to others as well. Turning a marginal healer into a decent healer because of a gear cap issues helps 4 to 30 other people complete content even if its just LFG content. Further it gives all players that don't play a bunch of alts seriously a chance to really taste test the difference classes and specs in a raid type environment. Not sure I see anything bad honestly and I am reading your points. Just looking at it differently and not trying to invalidate it in anyway. Just a different angle.

I think we somewhat agree and I do see your point. The players I am talking about though are ones that wont be doing anything past LFR (this is a HUGE portion of the playerbase) so I'm not sure how them maxing out progression before LFR even opens makes them more relevant if you see what I'm saying?

I don't think I can remember a time in the game there was ever any kind of catch up before the next patch came out.

[Nathreim]

I highly doubt for the casual player getting into a mythic group and running the dungeon and not guaranteed a drop is not faster than doing a warfront. Plus you can only do them once a week.

I did a lot of mythic 0 before the raids came out and the chances of getting no loot is astronomically low. Most times you would get 2 maybe 3 on a good run. Also most of the instances are easily puggable. If you cant manage a myithic 0 its not because you are "casual" its because you are bad.

[Zelion]

I did a lot of mythic 0 before the raids came out and the chances of getting no loot is astronomically low. Most times you would get 2 maybe 3 on a good run. Also most of the instances are easily puggable. If you cant manage a myithic 0 its not because you are "casual" its because you are bad.

and you think most of these players are "good?" Most of them don't even know what their talents do. Do you even play this game? Look at the damage meter of an LFR run and inspect what some people's rotations are and you will be astonished. We are talking about different players here. Also "most" is not the same as guaranteed.

[Tang0]

Its way faster to do Mythic 0 for gear.

It took most people 2-3 weeks depending on luck to get full 340 gear from mythic 0s. It took me 5 hours to go from 270ilvl to 340 on my horde alt. Results may vary, but the difference is undeniable.

I did a lot of mythic 0 before the raids came out and the chances of getting no loot is astronomically low. Most times you would get 2 maybe 3 on a good run. Also most of the instances are easily puggable. If you cant manage a myithic 0 its not because you are "casual" its because you are bad.

Yeah, I call bs. Even With an average of 4 bosses dropping an average of 5 items per 5 player group and you being the chosen one to receive 2-3 of those pieces most of the time that would leave 2 people in your group getting no loot “most times”

[Tang0]

Only reason it took past 1 week is Mythic + was not released when mythics were. Folks keep saying "most" and I am still not sure where these imaginary numbers come from. Throw a link up if we can please. Edited to add - 270 to 340 in 5 hours huh? Did you get the trinkets and rings from the WF as well?

“Imaginary” numbers are from people who can do any basic math unlike you. 30 dungeons to complete in 3 weeks with an average of 1 item per dungeon(and that’s generous) some of which being items from last boss drops which were mostly duplicate slots, with a need to fill how many unique slots?
Warcronts don’t drop trinkets and rings to my knowledge. But doing 4 world quests for 2 rings and 2 trinkets takes 20 minutes. Out of those 5h. Make it 8-10 hours if it’s slow or you get bad rng drops. Compare that to running 30 dungeons.

[kamuimac]

I did a lot of mythic 0 before the raids came out and the chances of getting no loot is astronomically low. Most times you would get 2 maybe 3 on a good run. Also most of the instances are easily puggable. If you cant manage a myithic 0 its not because you are "casual" its because you are bad.

the problem is not getting no loot.

the problem is people geting "Decline" 50 times in a row.

warfronts instantly fix it . no more decline anywhere below mythic + / normal uldir.

heaven for casual playerbase.

[HuxNeva]

Literally nobody in any decent raiding guild is going to bother doing more than one warfront per character. No need to nerf it and I wish good luck to all the alliance "progression guilds" that need 340 loot to gear their characters. One warfront takes longer than a +5 dungeon and the chance of even getting a 355 item (base ilvl for +5 dungeons) from a base 340 item is 1 in 20. So if each warfront takes you 25 mins on average, you're going to spent 8 hours just for one 355 piece and if that's an upgrade for you at this point then you are probably not raiding at a level where your gear even matters.

Sure, but name one other type of content you can queue for and park your freshly dinged 120 alt in, afk, and watch it gear to 340+.

Is that good or bad? Idk. It most certainly feels completely out-of-wack with their 'effort/reward' stance (which e.g. they just recently still used as an argument in the WQ group automation removal).