Why did they even remove early flying? the game desperately needs it

[Mafic]

you start by "this is false" only to confirm what I just said in the quote with a slightly different wording.......

"designed to be played from the ground" or "not designed with flying in mind" ??

It was not designed with ground travel in mind. So yeah WoD was bad. Thanks for agreeing with me!

[Stellan]

From what Bliz posted before is they want people to take there time and explore the zone from the ground. It also lengthens the time to do WQs and quest so you take more time before rushing through content. Thats why they introduced the pathfinder achievements, so you will gain flying again at a later point. Me personally I only care for flying when it comes to leveling alts or farming herbs/ores, but you don't want the AH flooded the first few months.

Blizzard just wants to slow us all down. Hence the content gating. It's all about keeping the monthly payments. Blizzard certainly does want us to take our time but it's not to enjoy the ground content.

[Mafic]

Blizzard just wants to slow us all down. Hence the content gating. It's all about keeping the monthly payments. Blizzard certainly does want us to take our time but it's not to enjoy the ground content.

Warfronts queue system means it is instanced. Island expeditions is instanced. Raids, mythic +, rated, unrated BG and arens are instanced. Blizz has never really supported the open world beyond the first month of an expansion launch.

Good post by the way! +1

[Tony Slam]

dude the flight whistle is like a 2 min cd or something silly like that.

[Mafic]

dude the flight whistle is like a 2 min cd or something silly like that.

A flight whistle is a teleport and is by no means helps create immersion in the world. It literally takes you away from it. Ground and flying mounts are like the polar opposite of that.

[Playintrafic]

The only reason we don't have flying is at the start of expansion anymore is because blizzard needs to slow us down to inflate the duration of content and keep people subbed/active longer.

There is no other legitimate answer.

By the time you hit honored, much less revered with your core 4 reps, you have seen the content available in the world, and its just a time gate. The WQs are just repeats of story quests, and hit squads for rares. So not new content.

If I had wanted world pvp, I'd have at some point, made a character on a pvp realm. For those of you that enjoy it, then stay on the fucking ground. I just want to do my daily quests without having to figure out how to get up/down this mountain in a timely manner.

[Dhrizzle]

The only reason we don't have flying is at the start of expansion anymore is because blizzard needs to slow us down to inflate the duration of content and keep people subbed/active longer.

There is no other legitimate answer.

By the time you hit honored, much less revered with your core 4 reps, you have seen the content available in the world, and its just a time gate. The WQs are just repeats of story quests, and hit squads for rares. So not new content.

If I had wanted world pvp, I'd have at some point, made a character on a pvp realm. For those of you that enjoy it, then stay on the fucking ground. I just want to do my daily quests without having to figure out how to get up/down this mountain in a timely manner.

That doesn't check out. If Blizz want to stretch the content longer they can reduce the rewards or increase the quest requirements so you would spend just as long if you were using a flying mount. For example see MoP that had complaints of too much that needed doing despite flying mounts, and WoD where people quickly ran out of things to do despite having no flight.

Basically Blizz have an idea of how long they want the average player to spend to earn a certain level of rewards and they feel the game is better if they spend that time doing X quests on a ground mount rather than Y quests on a flying mount.

[Mafic]

The only reason we don't have flying is at the start of expansion anymore is because blizzard needs to slow us down to inflate the duration of content and keep people subbed/active longer.

There is no other legitimate answer.

By the time you hit honored, much less revered with your core 4 reps, you have seen the content available in the world, and its just a time gate. The WQs are just repeats of story quests, and hit squads for rares. So not new content.

If I had wanted world pvp, I'd have at some point, made a character on a pvp realm. For those of you that enjoy it, then stay on the fucking ground. I just want to do my daily quests without having to figure out how to get up/down this mountain in a timely manner.

Time gating of warfronts and delaying flying is basically stealing from paul to pay peter.

But it is backfiring in a big way now!

[Playintrafic]

@Mafic, I mean you cant protect people from themselves.

People that blow through content, then don't wanna do anything but the absolute newest content are going to burnout, get bored, and leave. Making them do it on slow mounts isn't going to help them slow down. Just gonna make them want to do content less because its more annoying.

[rohoz]

Places you needed flight in TBC: Netherstorm (to reach Mechanar, Botanical, Tempest Keep, and the Arcatraz.) Terrokar (Shatari Skyguard rep)
Places you needed flight in Wrath: Ulduar, Storm Peaks, Coldara (unless you wanted to take the FP)
Places you needed flight in Cata: Uldum (instances in the sky), Twilight Highlands (Bastion of Twilight)
Places you needed flight in MoP: Timeless Isle (to get to it the first time), dragons (originally had their own type of flight, but was later merged), Dino Isle (to reach it the first time)
Places you needed flight in WoD: None. There are plenty of places I'd prefer flight, but not really a requirement.
Places you needed flight in Legion: None, but it was still a high selling market for Goblin gliders and people who wanted to leave Dalaran and hit a straight line
Places you need flight in B4A: Unknown. There are plenty of places I'd prefer flight, but not really a requirement.

Ultimately, flight is a convenience in the last 3 expacs since they designed everything from the ground up. Would I like flight at level cap instead of pathfinder? Abso-freakin-lutely. Is it going to break gameplay for me? Not really.

You didn't need flight to get to timeless isle though.
Nor did you need flight for anything in wotlk before level 77 (only needed flight for storm peaks/icecrown, which are 90% navigable by foot)

[Swalload]

The game doesn't need flying.

[HyperJay]

They removed early flying on wod if I recall correctly which was the first major failure expansion, despite that flying wasn't so neccesary on wod because you didn't interact much with the world, there was no content to do and the geography of the areas was better too. I dare to say that legion would have been one of the best expansions if they introduced early flying again and bfa would have been much better too. Legion's geography was one of the worst, I'm doing some quests now and I can't believe how shitty it was, the collusion is breaking my nerves, you hit a wall or a cliff all the time and you don't know where to go, it's not really fun gameplay...It would have been much cooler if you could use your own spaceship on argus to navigate around. Bfa's geography is much better than legion's one, the areas are flatter especially the horde ones but still flying would have made world questing and pvp more attractive, right now it's shit.

Flying has an amazing synergy with world quests and world pvp and make exploring more fun, it's beyond me why would they remove it especially when they aren't capable to create decent areas who are easy and enjoyable to navigate. Vanilla areas were FAR better, they were huge and you rarely hit a wall or didn't know what road leads where you want to go.

If you think WoD failed because of Flying at Launch being off thats idiotic. WoD failed from a lack of end game content in later patches.
Early Flying is removed so people dont breeze through everything and actually explore. I HATE flying it RUINS the game, Warmode would be pointless and you'd never have to fight, Herbing/Mining would be ridiculously easy, Quests would be easy, navigation would be boring just press auto walk while flying till you get there, and you would never find fun secrets.

[SirCowdog]

I HATE flying it RUINS the game

Then don't fucking use it. You hating flight doesn't validate denying MY use of it. Especially when you have a choice in the matter. If I want to experience the content via flying, that's MY choice! If I want to "ruin" the game for myself, that's nobody's business but mine.

Warmode would be pointless and you'd never have to fight

False. Flight has been on PVP servers since TBC, and I guarantee you that it's factually true that combat still happened. You just don't like having to adapt to players being able to fly.

Also, throwing PVP into a PVE-oriented environment like the open world of WoW is a colossal, fundamentally flawed concept from the get-go. Blizzard has NEVER been able to correctly balance or present it. That's why we have Battlegrounds and Arena, FFS.

Herbing/Mining would be ridiculously easy

Oh god, no!! The TRAGEDY! Those herbs would be too easy to gather! Christ...really?

Quests would be easy

Quests are ALREADY easy. And it's not like mounts kill or click things for you. This is literally a non-issue.

navigation would be boring just press auto walk while flying till you get there, and you would never find fun secrets.

Name a single "fun secret" that isn't already labeled on the map with a giant Star telling you "HERE'S A THING!" Treasure chests? Lol...gosh. Yup..those grey vendor trash items and 7 war resources were absolutely worth fucking around with dazing trash mobs and shitty terrain for. I feel so fulfilled!



There is NOTHING in the open world that validates the withholding of flight. The only way you have an argument that holds water is if you base it on the idea of players customizing their own personal preference for interacting with the world. Here, let me give you an example:

"Flight or no-flying should be a choice. They should work at the same speed, and each give their own advantages. Flying lets you bypass many terrain obstacles, but maybe ground mounts should give other benefits, such as staying mounted while gathering, or in combat, or improving swim speed. Perhaps different ground mounts could give different bonuses to combat, such as with hunter pets, or even move FASTER than air mount equivalents."

Do you see the difference? All you're arguing for is blind support of Blizzard, in favor of your own personal preference. Instead you should be arguing for more diversity and choice.

[Mafic]

@Mafic, I mean you cant protect people from themselves.

People that blow through content, then don't wanna do anything but the absolute newest content are going to burnout, get bored, and leave. Making them do it on slow mounts isn't going to help them slow down. Just gonna make them want to do content less because its more annoying.

Right those that are one and done with MMO and MMORPGs are not the customer base WoW devs need to build around. That is why catchup mechanic within one month of an expansion launch shows that they are more concerned about retention of cyclical players than consistent subbed players. Of course the strategy is that you don't need to use resources to keep subbed players playing so WoW devs concentrate on keeping the one and done crowd playing longer to maximize profit. But I think that is futile in that it assume that loyal subbed player will stick around when you change your business model and gate flying or war fronts for very arbitrary reasons. Citing the health of the game to restrict flying or warmodes doesn't make sense based on how modern WoW is very instanced focused end game.

[NihilSustinet]

They removed early flying on wod if I recall correctly which was the first major failure expansion, despite that flying wasn't so neccesary on wod because you didn't interact much with the world, there was no content to do and the geography of the areas was better too. I dare to say that legion would have been one of the best expansions if they introduced early flying again and bfa would have been much better too. Legion's geography was one of the worst, I'm doing some quests now and I can't believe how shitty it was, the collusion is breaking my nerves, you hit a wall or a cliff all the time and you don't know where to go, it's not really fun gameplay...It would have been much cooler if you could use your own spaceship on argus to navigate around. Bfa's geography is much better than legion's one, the areas are flatter especially the horde ones but still flying would have made world questing and pvp more attractive, right now it's shit.

Flying has an amazing synergy with world quests and world pvp and make exploring more fun, it's beyond me why would they remove it especially when they aren't capable to create decent areas who are easy and enjoyable to navigate. Vanilla areas were FAR better, they were huge and you rarely hit a wall or didn't know what road leads where you want to go.

i wish they would remove flying entirely.

[Mafic]

i wish they would remove flying entirely.

Explain why?

Because removing flying will cost players more raid tiers honestly with the shoe string budget WoW devs have currently.

[SirCowdog]

. Citing the health of the game to restrict flying or warmodes doesn't make sense based on how modern WoW is very instanced focused end game.

It also doesn't make sense to claim that restricting flight is meant to protect and preserve the open world experience when you invalidate and make obsolete that content less rhan a month after launch.

[HyperJay]

Then don't fucking use it. You hating flight doesn't validate denying MY use of it. Especially when you have a choice in the matter. If I want to experience the content via flying, that's MY choice! If I want to "ruin" the game for myself, that's nobody's business but mine.



False. Flight has been on PVP servers since TBC, and I guarantee you that it's factually true that combat still happened. You just don't like having to adapt to players being able to fly.

Also, throwing PVP into a PVE-oriented environment like the open world of WoW is a colossal, fundamentally flawed concept from the get-go. Blizzard has NEVER been able to correctly balance or present it. That's why we have Battlegrounds and Arena, FFS.



Oh god, no!! The TRAGEDY! Those herbs would be too easy to gather! Christ...really?





Quests are ALREADY easy. And it's not like mounts kill or click things for you. This is literally a non-issue.




Name a single "fun secret" that isn't already labeled on the map with a giant Star telling you "HERE'S A THING!" Treasure chests? Lol...gosh. Yup..those grey vendor trash items and 7 war resources were absolutely worth fucking around with dazing trash mobs and shitty terrain for. I feel so fulfilled!



There is NOTHING in the open world that validates the withholding of flight. The only way you have an argument that holds water is if you base it on the idea of players customizing their own personal preference for interacting with the world. Here, let me give you an example:

"Flight or no-flying should be a choice. They should work at the same speed, and each give their own advantages. Flying lets you bypass many terrain obstacles, but maybe ground mounts should give other benefits, such as staying mounted while gathering, or in combat, or improving swim speed. Perhaps different ground mounts could give different bonuses to combat, such as with hunter pets, or even move FASTER than air mount equivalents."

Do you see the difference? All you're arguing for is blind support of Blizzard, in favor of your own personal preference. Instead you should be arguing for more diversity and choice.

No lmao it objectively ruins the game. Ruins idea's like Warmode meaning you can turn it on for bonuses with no threat. And I think the Idea of flying is just bad. No one should be allowed to till next xpac launch

[Hannya84]

They removed early flying on wod if I recall correctly which was the first major failure expansion

It's kind of retarded to imply that if something is bad, then everything about it is bad.

WoD sucked because of cut content, content draughts and garrisons. Questing and exploration was great in WoD.

Early flying was removed because it removes any sense of gameplay artistic purpose from the overworld. If you want to monotonously grind in a personality devoid landscape. Then just get a job in real life.

Don't bitch about WoW not being a factory job.

[SirCowdog]

No lmao it objectively ruins the game. Ruins idea's like Warmode meaning you can turn it on for bonuses with no threat. And I think the Idea of flying is just bad. No one should be allowed to till next xpac launch

I dont think you know what the word "objectively" means. You're only making yourself and your point of view loom foolish.