So alliance is using necromancy now ?

[Kwento]

Difference being, the alliance isn't actively killing it's own troops to raise undead.

It’s not difference in this situation.
Alliance *might be* forcefully raising the dead as vengeful ghosts to attack the Horde.
Horde raises the dead to attack the Alliance.
It’s pretty straight forward if it will ever be confirmed that the dead raised by the Horde during Battle for Lordaeron had souls and were forced into servitude and that the ghosts raised by the Alliance were brought back forcefully. At the moment there are a lot of ifs, but none of these “ifs” are connected to the Horde raising their own troops.

[Magnagarde]

It’s not difference in this situation.
Alliance *might be* forcefully raising the dead as vengeful ghosts to attack the Horde.
Horde raises the dead to attack the Alliance.
It’s pretty straight forward if it will ever be confirmed that the dead raised by the Horde during Battle for Lordaeron had souls and were forced into servitude and that the ghosts raised by the Alliance were brought back forcefully. At the moment there are a lot of ifs, but none of these “ifs” are connected to the Horde raising their own troops.

It isn't the same because the Alliance didn't kill Alliance to raise Alliance ghosts to kill Horde.

Sylvanas killed Horde soldiers to raise Horde skeletons to kill Alliance.

Do you see the difference here? A leader ends his own soldiers' lives to raise them as minions, which is not something the Alliance does in the warfront.

On top of this, these are vengeful ghosts of soldiers killed by the Horde and, as their names imply, they're more than eager to continue fighting their adversaries in their pursuit of vengeance for being killed. This is in stark contrast with the Horde soldiers Sylvanas killed and turned into her minions.



Other than these few points and the massive jebait that this thread represents, it is safe to say that necromancy has been part of the Alliance's tools of war since the inception of the death knights, though it's always been used on the fringes and mostly by a select few heroes(ie the playable character and the likes of Thassarian). The difference between the Horde's and the Alliance's necromancy is the fact that the Alliance seemingly has boundaries(ie it won't kill its own men to raise them, but will give their spirits a chance to enact vengeance upon their killers), whereas pretty much all of the Horde basically has to suck up whatever Sylvanas does to them at this point; this includes both being sent to death and being killed to be raised.

[Dannihilate]

Sylvanas kills her own troops and the Alliance troops and then raises both, forcing the Alliance to kill their own comrades.
Horde kills Alliance troops, the Alliance raises their spirits to seek vengeance on the people who killed them.

Is no one reading GreenJesus' posts? They've made it pretty cut and dry. Sylv did not raise any Alliance or Horde "back to life" and no one was "forced" to attack anyone. She animated a bunch of bones who mindlessly attacked. The soul and mind of those soldiers, both Alliance and Horde, was gone and therefor no one is being forced to do anything against their will, since there is nothing left to have a WILL. This process is completely different to when a new Forsaken is raised into undeath, which is a process that rips the spirit from the afterlife and reunites it with it's former body.

Hell, go back to Lordaeron now- all of those reanimated skeletons are hostile to everyone of both factions.

That being said, it still doesn't excuse her purposely killing her own troops to begin with. That was still a reprehensible act.

[Shadowtwili]

Oke, this might be stupid but didn't Blizzard confirm in one of that AskDev's that if someone is forcibly raised, they would turn on their (former) allies for a short while, thus explaining why many risen Alliance soldiers turned against still living Alliance soldiers during the Forsaken questing experience?

So wouldn't that, atleast, show the Vengeful Spirits seen in Arathi Highlands are different from true necromancy as used by the Forsaken?

@Poster above me, isn't it lore that to raise a corpse from the death, you have to (imperfectly) attach their soulds to their decaying bodies? I don't know if it matters if the bodies a skeleton or not though, but as I know it there must be a soul attached to those bones or else they could not be risen at all.

[Varodoc]

Is no one reading GreenJesus' posts? They've made it pretty cut and dry. Sylv did not raise any Alliance or Horde "back to life" and no one was "forced" to attack anyone. She animated a bunch of bones who mindlessly attacked. The soul and mind of those soldiers, both Alliance and Horde, was gone and therefor no one is being forced to do anything against their will, since there is nothing left to have a WILL. This process is completely different to when a new Forsaken is raised into undeath, which is a process that rips the spirit from the afterlife and reunites it with it's former body.

Hell, go back to Lordaeron now- all of those reanimated skeletons are hostile to everyone of both factions.

That being said, it still doesn't excuse her purposely killing her own troops to begin with. That was still a reprehensible act.

Except that defiling corpses is also a very grave and reprehensible act. Not only did Sylvanas desecrate the corpses of the fallen troops, she even reanimated their bones in a most obscene and gruesome manner. You don't excuse such a travesty that is completely disrespectful to the living memories of those fallen. Soldiers are people, and as such deserve a proper burial in a marked grave. Not some vile desecration of their bodies by becoming disgusting skeletons doomed to wander the land or wither away and crumble to dust. Sylvanas has no right to completely disregard that right of theirs, and treat them like expendable meatshield.

[Verdugo]

Oke, this might be stupid but didn't Blizzard confirm in one of that AskDev's that if someone is forcibly raised, they would turn on their (former) allies for a short while, thus explaining why many risen Alliance soldiers turned against still living Alliance soldiers during the Forsaken questing experience?

So wouldn't that, atleast, show the Vengeful Spirits seen in Arathi Highlands are different from true necromancy as used by the Forsaken?

If anything, it shows that Alliance also exploits the state of mind of the freshly risen.

Except that defiling corpses is also a very grave and reprehensible act. Not only did Sylvanas desecrate the corpses of the fallen troops, she even reanimated their bones in a most obscene and gruesome manners. You don't excuse such a travesty that is completely disrespectful to the living memories of those fallen. Soldiers are people, and as such deserve a proper burial in a marked grave. Not some vile desecration of their bodies by becoming disgusting skeletons doomed to wander the land or wither away and crumble to dust. Sylvanas has no right to completely disregard that right of theirs, and treat them like expendable meatshield.

So, how many corpsed did you loot/mutilate/burn today?

[Stormdash]

If the Alliance didn't have double standards they'd have none at all.

[Mehrunes]

If you go to Arathi when it's Allianced controlled, you'll find the Horde based filled with those spirits, so no.

Considering that Arathi works on a cycle and Alliance control of it means the Horde base has been smashed, what do you mean by "no"? Nothing prevents those spirits from being a part of the successful offensive against the Horde outpost. Do they spontaneously spawn from the Alliance corpses?

So you don’t have any one who isn’t a rogue gnome or arthas? And you think that’s comparable to the warcheif shooting her own civs and gasing her own troops.

Apparently Arthas purged an entire city by himself. Who knew? And not only is a heir apparent comparable to Warchief, but you're moving the goalposts. In the post before you cried about me only having a one example (when you yourself also had one, alas, Alliance double standards are near-infinite, so it was to be expected). I gave you another. Somehow that's still not enough for you, even though my examples outnumber yours by now. Moira's tyranny was the reason for creating the Council of Three Hammers. Genn sacrificed everything and everyone north of the wall to the Scourge. Do continue your double think though.

And no it wasn’t mekkatorque’s nuke.

Good thing I didn't say it was his. You do realize one can use a weapon used by someone else, right? Or were you too lost in your double think for that? Your source in no way argues against Mekkatorque making the final decision. In fact it outright says Thermaplugg merely proposed the solution that Gelbin eventually accepted. It's almost as if it was Mekkatorque that was the High Tinker and had the executive powers or something...

[Gothic Knight]

It's 12 pages. Can't be arsed to read them. So whose dick is bigger? Horde's or Alliance's?

At that point this thread is basically Horde's echo chamber. Don't waste your time on it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Considering that Arathi works on a cycle and Alliance control of it means the Horde base has been smashed, what do you mean by "no"? Nothing prevents those spirits from being a part of the successful offensive against the Horde outpost. Do they spontaneously spawn from the Alliance corpses?




Apparently Arthas purged an entire city by himself. Who knew? And not only is a heir apparent comparable to Warchief, but you're moving the goalposts. In the post before you cried about me only having a one example (when you yourself also had one, alas, Alliance double standards are near-infinite, so it was to be expected). I gave you another. Somehow that's still not enough for you, even though my examples outnumber yours by now. Moira's tyranny was the reason for creating the Council of Three Hammers. Genn sacrificed everything and everyone north of the wall to the Scourge. Do continue your double think though.





Good thing I didn't say it was his. You do realize one can use a weapon used by someone else, right? Or were you too lost in your double think for that? Your source in no way argues against Mekkatorque making the final decision. In fact it outright says Thermaplugg merely proposed the solution that Gelbin eventually accepted. It's almost as if it was Mekkatorque that was the High Tinker and had the executive powers or something...

Dude your just sad. Arthas has nothing to do with our alliance hell his kingdom is part of the horde nothing he did tracks back to the moderne day allaince. There is also no goal post shifting you don’t have a single example you have a rogue nuking his people without any one else knowing about, not the leader of the gnomes not the alliance one Single powerful hungry gnome that has nothing to do with the alliance as a whole. I get that you need to try and push your horde did nothing wrong thing but you don’t have a case with either of theses no where is it ever reflected that the alliance kills its own troops or civs where sylvanas has done it twice and its happens under garrosh as well though we never get confirmation on that being him.

[Lochton]

So there is a funny thing i noticed in stormgarde warfront. After you progress a bit, some of alliance priests will cast a spell on friendly corpses summoning "Vengenful spirits" who attack horde.

So my question is - is this necromancy ? is it "This is totally not necromancy"ancy ? Maybe its "Its ok if alliance are doing it"ancy.

Because as it is, it seems to be exact same move sylvanas used in battle for undercity. And she is soooo evil.

Some of the Ebon Blade members joined their rightful factions, though.

Anduin literally raised Calia as an undead.

Yeah, barely. He wasn't alone about that.

[Feanoro]

At that point this thread is basically Horde's echo chamber. Don't waste your time on it.

Isn't that most threads here? They even shit on what should be non-controversial threads like "I enjoyed the Alliance BFA quests" a few weeks back.

[cparle87]

In sylvanas' case specifically, arthas ripped her soul out, which isn't the same thing as being resurrected. Originally banshees weren't resurrected at all, they were vengeful spirits that were murdered.

We're not talking about resurrection. The guy I was responding to said that necromancy only involves the revival of the body, not the soul.

[Nightheart]

Necromancers confirmed for the next expac xD

[Mehrunes]

The Lich King is evil! All hail Sylvannas!

It's almost as if there was more to the Lich King's evil than just necromancy. Necromancy itself is just a tool. What you said has the same value as saying that Alliance is hypocritical about stone buildings because they considered Lich King their enemy as well, yet use stone buildings just like the Scourge did.

[Projectmars]

It's almost as if there was more to the Lich King's evil than just necromancy. Necromancy itself is just a tool. What you said has the same value as saying that Alliance is hypocritical about stone buildings because they considered Lich King their enemy as well, yet use stone buildings just like the Scourge did.

Garrosh: What makes you so different than the Lich King?
Sylvannas: Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde.

Except since she became the Warchief she hasn't quite been serving the Horde as much, has she? In Stormheim she mostly ran off to make a deal with Helya and then forced a war between two sides, hers and the Alliance, that neither was entirely ready for due to how much dealing with the Burning Legion took out of everyone. She's starting to act more and more like Arthas and I believe Blizzard may be indicating this. Look at how much Arthas (and Arthas related stuff) has appeared in BfA so far... they may be building up some huge symbolism thing.

[Gramlen]

Characters that are perfect and flawless can be interesting, the only problem is that you need to be able to make them interesting (hint: people like you can't).

Then please, enlighten the masses. Show us how your perfect, flawless Med'han can be made to be interesting.

[iamthedevil]

We're not talking about resurrection. The guy I was responding to said that necromancy only involves the revival of the body, not the soul.

In wow necromancy has been pretty body based but both have happened. More so bodies though. The shadowlands are tied to necromancy on the chronicles chart, but priests have the ability through the void and holy as well.

[Leodok]

Do you have proof that its voluntary?

Proof? No. But it's priests in a group that hates necromancy, raising souls (and not bodies) from allies only (from what I understood, please correct me if I'm wrong), which are described as "vengeful". So it being voluntary just seems more likely.

[Deleted]

Anduin literally raised Calia as an undead.

Anduin has no necromantic powers.