Warfronts JUST Hotfixed to require itemlevel

[Raelbo]

If people chose not to take advantage that's their choice, a choice Alliance player don't have AT ALL

Maybe because people didn't realise that it would be restricted? People are mostly focussed on their mains at the moment, not on trying to get the most out of a way to boost all their alts before it gets nerfed.

how anybody can even remotely defend this blows my mind.

It's called being level headed and taking a sense of perspective.

It sucks you had the bugs you had, it shouldn't happen

Overall I don't really mind too much. It was a minor annoyance. I still had fun and I used the 30 minutes deserter debuff to do some world quests. My point was mainly to show how just because there was a potential opportunity there, didn't automatically translate into masses of gear. It was 2 hours for a single upgrade. There are other ways to get more gear in less time (I got the same amount of ilevel improvement from doing WQs for 30 mins).

saying that there's nothing to suggest we won't get many (if not all) those issues too once it eventually gets to us.

True there is no guarantee. But I would say it's likely you guys will have less of these sorts of problems because that is the nature of the game: new features have bugs which get discovered during gameplay which the devs fix.

I agree this isn't a huge deal for mains, although multiple chances are titanforges etc is pretty worthwhile, but it is a huge deal for alts. Jumping from fresh 120 to near 340 with no other requirement is a massive time saving.

But that's where you're talking nonsense. No one jumped from fresh 120 to near 340 with no other requirement. I can agree that this would have had the potential to save some time, but have you even thought about what it would actually have taken to achieve this?

I already explained how it took me 2 hours to get a single piece. Now bear in mind that as you gear up you run the risk of getting repeat items. Also, if everyone was doing warfronts with fresh 120s that would severely impact the time it takes to complete them. Gearing up to 340 would likely have taken someone grinding warfronts solidly for the entire time they were able.

In practical terms pushing an alt through warfronts and exploiting the lack of ilevel requirements is simply a faster way of gearing. Potentially I could even agree that it's maybe 3-4 times more effective than doing things without the warfront. But that assumes non-buggy instances (which resulted in 50% time waste for me personally). It also assumes that you're being carried by people sitting on 330-350 (imagine being in the instance with a full group of fresh 120s - that's going to result in a massive time increase). And it assumes you don't get gear duplication.

Honestly, I would say that in the end the actual speed boost is probably at best, a 50% more effective use of time. Very few players are going to commit a significant amount of time to gearing their alts when we should be focussing on our mains. So really, you're complaining and whining about a bunch of players saving between 30 minutes to an hour in their gear up process. You've probably wasted more time complaining about this non-issue.

Down playing it as, "oh well not many have done it" is complete nonsense and utterly irrelevant anyway, it a clear advantage given to only one faction.

Up playing it as "there was this hugely theoretical advantage" is the complete nonsense. Look at the practical outcomes rather. Yes, it's a "clear advantage" that one faction got. But it's a very small one that doesn't nearly warrant the level of outrage we're seeing here

[Gorgodeus]

It's not high tbh. Considering that heroics are 310 and you get 325 from them, it's not hard to get 320 at all. Though the absurd amount of people afking in these is a bit annoying. I feel like blizz will put a timer on warfronts kinda like pvp, where if you afk for too long, you get kicked. But people will complain about that aswell.

Afkers have not been an issue at all in Warfronts. It is easy to vote kick afkers.

[Raelbo]

So, after Horde got all their fresh alts to 340+ in one or two days, its time to nerf it cause Alliance's turn is coming soon...

This didn't happen though.

[Lasting Journey]

It's not high tbh. Considering that heroics are 310 and you get 325 from them, it's not hard to get 320 at all. Though the absurd amount of people afking in these is a bit annoying. I feel like blizz will put a timer on warfronts kinda like pvp, where if you afk for too long, you get kicked. But people will complain about that aswell.

It isnt high but it begs the question why its needed.

[Alnilam81]

But that's where you're talking nonsense. No one jumped from fresh 120 to near 340 with no other requirement. I can agree that this would have had the potential to save some time, but have you even thought about what it would actually have taken to achieve this?

I already explained how it took me 2 hours to get a single piece. Now bear in mind that as you gear up you run the risk of getting repeat items. Also, if everyone was doing warfronts with fresh 120s that would severely impact the time it takes to complete them. Gearing up to 340 would likely have taken someone grinding warfronts solidly for the entire time they were able.

In practical terms pushing an alt through warfronts and exploiting the lack of ilevel requirements is simply a faster way of gearing. Potentially I could even agree that it's maybe 3-4 times more effective than doing things without the warfront. But that assumes non-buggy instances (which resulted in 50% time waste for me personally). It also assumes that you're being carried by people sitting on 330-350 (imagine being in the instance with a full group of fresh 120s - that's going to result in a massive time increase). And it assumes you don't get gear duplication.

Honestly, I would say that in the end the actual speed boost is probably at best, a 50% more effective use of time. Very few players are going to commit a significant amount of time to gearing their alts when we should be focussing on our mains. So really, you're complaining and whining about a bunch of players saving between 30 minutes to an hour in their gear up process. You've probably wasted more time complaining about this non-issue.



Up playing it as "there was this hugely theoretical advantage" is the complete nonsense. Look at the practical outcomes rather. Yes, it's a "clear advantage" that one faction got. But it's a very small one that doesn't nearly warrant the level of outrage we're seeing here

It's not nonsense, here's Heelvsbabyface explaining how he went from sub 300 to 337 by killing the Arathi rares and then spamming the Warfront;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv9aJeIInW8&t=1s

The video has of 40K views, you can say what you want about him (I certainly have no love for him) but ultimately he shows it's easily possible.

[Thage]

I think @EbaumsTipster hit the nail on the head here. It would be less of an issue if both Arathi and the datamined Barrens Warfronts launched together because then both factions would have had an opportunity to farm rares/do the 'weekly' quests, and to attack a Warfront to get it to switch hands and get the alt-catchup loot from the Warfront itself.

As it is, Horde players got a not-insignificant leg up on the gearing process over Alliance players, which coupled with nearly all the Uldir story buildup being put in the Horde leveling storyline (seriously, what reason does the Alliance have to go stop G'huun rather than let him take over Zandalar and then bring Dalaran and the Vindicaar in to nuke it from the sky until all that's left is a smoldering crater?) certainly leads to BFA's launch endgame seeming tilted in the Horde's favor, though I personally find the Alliance storylines more enjoyable overall (especially since we're not going around with Edgy McEdgerson and his merry band of sycophants in the Alliance war campaign). No wonder some players are giving Blizz side-eye on this.

[Warmage]

This didn't happen though.

Any proof ? Your personal examples doesn't count

[Raelbo]

Alliance players just want the same opportunity Horde players got, that's it.

Except that knowing that the all-access pass is going to be limited would result in alliance taking far greater advantage of said opportunity, making it not equal.

You say yourself it took you 3 weeks to get 320+, well that's 3 weeks work the Horde could completely skip, and yet you seem to think that's fine.

1) Getting to 320+ includes 2 weeks of getting to level 120
2) Doing a sufficient number of warfronts to get you to 320 is not "completely skipping" anything.

[Nightheart]

Alliance players just want the same opportunity Horde players got, that's it. Players can do what they want, let them choose, but don't only let one faction have the opportunity and then deny it completely to the other. The fine details of where mains are etc. really do not matter at all, the game is based around 2 factions and gearing opportunities should be equal for both. You can say Warfronts are not a catch-up mechanic, but the simple truth is that they were a very effective one for one of the factions. You say yourself it took you 3 weeks to get 320+, well that's 3 weeks work the Horde could completely skip, and yet you seem to think that's fine.

BFA has been out for a month now. People have been playing it for a month. Unless they just got to 120 and are having trouble gearing for some reason (Which I can understand, I still have yet to get a ret weapon. Cause you know. Fuck ret pallies) you should have past 320. hell you should have 310 to run heroics. Heroics give you 325 gear. You should have the gear to go into it, and I feel like people complaining about the "gating" are mad because they can't gear their alts with free loot. It would be different if Blizz announced that you weren't going to get a item every warfront when completing. That would be BS. a Ilvl restriction isn't the end of the world cause you should be past that already. If you are a fresh 120, it's your main, you just started. Yeah I can understand it being BS, but considering you have plenty of time to gear up, whether through heroics, WQ's, Mythics, Rep grinds before alliance even gets the chance to do the warfronts. Not to mention the Arathi rares that drop gear.

[Sluvs]

The only reason Blizzard made the change was due to their #1 priority, which is maximize the number of hours played by players. That is the metric they now use with their shareholders instead of sub numbers. This is why everything in the game is now gated and behind a grind-wall.

I don't know, I'm a bit skeptical of such vision, timegating can be objectively bad for the game, and if the people don't like the game, they don't play it, and if people don't play it, it is bad for business. I'm not entirely convinced that is why they do it because it would be better for the game and for business if they make a good chunk of content, and in this case, it's like, only 2-3 days to get to this ilvl, it's a really short timegate.

This is just really weird, I really don't get it.

[Nightheart]

Afkers have not been an issue at all in Warfronts. It is easy to vote kick afkers.

I've seen plenty just sitting in the mine afk. yeah you can vote kick them but it doesn't stop the issue really. They are still afking to get free loot.

[Gorgodeus]

I've seen plenty just sitting in the mine afk. yeah you can vote kick them but it doesn't stop the issue really. They are still afking to get free loot.

They don't get anything when they are vote-kicked, and every single afker I have seen thus far in WFs was kicked.

[Vorkreist]

Now i am really, really curious what the "There is no Horde BIAS, you blue little faggot-shit-eater!"-faction is going to say about this.

HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.

Damn this is funny as hell seeing alliance getting trolled so hard by blizz

[Sigxy]

Meh, should've made the item requirement 300 and then have the rewards scale up to 340, meaning you can't boost the item level like insane straight away, but always get an upgrade until that point. Think that would be good with the fact that Warfronts are only up for certain amounts of time.

[Alnilam81]

Except that knowing that the all-access pass is going to be limited would result in alliance taking far greater advantage of said opportunity, making it not equal.



1) Getting to 320+ includes 2 weeks of getting to level 120
2) Doing a sufficient number of warfronts to get you to 320 is not "completely skipping" anything.

Oh, so that won't be fair, but giving one faction ZERO chance is completely fine....?

[Nightheart]

They don't get anything when they are vote-kicked, and every single afker I have seen thus far in WFs was kicked.

Might just be the ones I join in cause no one seems to say anything about them. I've seen 2 afkers get kicked cause they were afking, but no one batted an eye when others were afk. Maybe they were guildies, IDK, but I've seen a couple.

- - - Updated - - -

HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.

Damn this is funny as hell seeing alliance getting trolled so hard by blizz

Blizz seems to do that alot tbh. But I don't see this situation as a troll.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, so that won't be fair, but giving one faction ZERO chance is completely fine....?

How is the alliance getting ZERO chance? you should be 320+ right now on your main. God I don't understand people..

[Xath]

Then don't. Quit whining because you can't get free loots on your alts. If you can't work hard to get something.. Then you should get nothing. This is WoW. This isn't Free loot on a platter.

Except Horde literally got free loot on a platter as you put it. I wouldn't even have started leveling alts if not for the catchup mechanic I thought was going to be in game for alliance soon.

[Puri]

But that's where you're talking nonsense. No one jumped from fresh 120 to near 340 with no other requirement. I can agree that this would have had the potential to save some time, but have you even thought about what it would actually have taken to achieve this?

I already explained how it took me 2 hours to get a single piece. Now bear in mind that as you gear up you run the risk of getting repeat items. Also, if everyone was doing warfronts with fresh 120s that would severely impact the time it takes to complete them. Gearing up to 340 would likely have taken someone grinding warfronts solidly for the entire time they were able.

In practical terms pushing an alt through warfronts and exploiting the lack of ilevel requirements is simply a faster way of gearing. Potentially I could even agree that it's maybe 3-4 times more effective than doing things without the warfront. But that assumes non-buggy instances (which resulted in 50% time waste for me personally). It also assumes that you're being carried by people sitting on 330-350 (imagine being in the instance with a full group of fresh 120s - that's going to result in a massive time increase). And it assumes you don't get gear duplication.

Honestly, I would say that in the end the actual speed boost is probably at best, a 50% more effective use of time. Very few players are going to commit a significant amount of time to gearing their alts when we should be focussing on our mains. So really, you're complaining and whining about a bunch of players saving between 30 minutes to an hour in their gear up process. You've probably wasted more time complaining about this non-issue.

What you are completely ignoring for a fresh 120 that the gear that you can obtain (through WQs) relies on your current itemlevel. When you ding 120 with an itemlevel of ~280, and can get one 370 and one 340 item from a single warfront, you skipped all the way to item level 300. This will instantaneously increase the itemlevel of all WQ gear on the map by roughy the same amount. It will be significantly easier (aka cost less time) to reach the breakpoint to queue for heroics (WF are only available every few weeks) or LFR, or even to manually join groups in the tool.

The itemlevel of the players in the warfront has very little influence on the outcome. The damage required to quickly beat the WF comes from NPCs, which you can buff by colllecting items. Get two war riders, they do 20k dps each. Get a kodo and have a small bloodlust up every 20s for you and all NPCs and they do fantastic single target as well as multi target damage. Your personal itemlevel is fairly irrelevant for those tasks.

The only ressource of this game is time. Using WF you could equip three or four alts in the time it takes without them.
Personally I fully agree that WF have a item level requirement because else this would completely break any other entry way of progressing your char, making half of the content obsolete. But it should have been implemented after the Alliance also had their shot on this.

[slime]

It's obvious what's going on here. Just like they have multiple difficulty levels for content, I think they want to have that for faction as well. Through their research they found most horde players are like <14 yrs. old and prefer "easy-mode". Alliance players prefer more challenge (also made obvious by people that gravitate too the faction that gets more powerful racials - and in general makes the game easier). It looks like that is being applied here as well, being Alliance means playing in hard-mode and being horde means playing in lfr-mode.

What else would you call this warfront garbage that gave horde and their alts so much ilvl - for doing almost nothing?

What other content has Blizz ever released that locks out a faction for a whole month (I mean a week or something maybe, but a month?)

Playing Horde = easy-mode
Playing Alliance = hard-mode

end of story.

[Xath]

I mean... they're literally free loot. You're allowed to not like them, but you can't pretend there isn't free gear 5 minutes away.

They are literally not free loot they are loot for tedious mind numbing slog that isn't fun. They also start incredibly low level to get to 320 you are forced to do dozens plus normal and heroic dungeons that I have no interest in doing again.