EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

[Thagrynor]

The only actual progression in Overwatch is to get a random box for that cosmetic crap.

The pay you are ether grinding for a random chance or paying for a random change is shitty. Its gambling, Its shitty and Activision-Blizzard is no different then EA.

I guess if you consider that the cosmetic stuff is the only real progression, then you have a point. But I was considering it more along the lines of leveling up for better match making. I only really play for fun (definitely not at higher levels in OW), so the cosmetic crap is really just a "for fun" kinda thing for me. Even so, the cosmetic part doesn't take away from the actual gameplay by not having it. I think that is really the big difference and the key difference here. If you are being hamstrung from playing "normally" or are dominating because you spent money, then if you want to play, you are effectively told you have to buy these things to play, which means that you are almost press-ganged into gambling.

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EA literally are the closest thing we have to a super villian organization... Up there with OSCORP, The Umbrella Corporation, LexCorp and Hammer Industries...

To be fair, FIFA as an organization seems pretty damn shady too. It makes sense they are involved with one another. >.>

[Jtbrig7390]

I guess if you consider that the cosmetic stuff is the only real progression, then you have a point. But I was considering it more along the lines of leveling up for better match making. I only really play for fun (definitely not at higher levels in OW), so the cosmetic crap is really just a "for fun" kinda thing for me. Even so, the cosmetic part doesn't take away from the actual gameplay by not having it. I think that is really the big difference and the key difference here. If you are being hamstrung from playing "normally" or are dominating because you spent money, then if you want to play, you are effectively told you have to buy these things to play, which means that you are almost press-ganged into gambling.

But here is the thing why can I not just directly buy the "Pink hat", Why must I spend money on a game of chance (Loot Box's). I have no problem with cosmetic MTX's and in most cases no problems with DLC ether.

But cut content and lootbox's are a plague on gaming. You could spend $20+ before you get that "Pink Hat" when normally it would be a $2.99 DLC at most.

Want to sell a shit ton of cosmetic's then fine go for it, But remove the random chance of it and let me buy directly.

A Example of this is Dead By Daylight, They just added MTX's and virtual currency. There is no lootbox's and 90% of the stuff you can buy with $$$ you can unlock via just playing the game.

[Yunru]

Meanwhile at Ea:


There is a good chance they will drag this in court for 2 years.
You can read here:
http://www.allenovery.com/SiteCollec...lgium_2015.PDF


4
Defending a Claim
4.1
What are the main elements of a statement of
defence? Can the defendant bring counterclaims/
claim or defence of set-off?
A statement of defence will usually set out the defendant’s factual
and legal defence against the main claim. The structure of the
statement of defence will in most cases mirror the structure of the
claimant’s pleadings.
Counterclaims can be filed, to the extent such counterclaims are not
frivolous or filed with the sole intent to delay the main claim.
4.2
What is the time limit within which the statement of
defence has to be served?
The calendar for the filing of pleadings (including the statement of
defence) is normally agreed upfront, and confirmed by the court.
The parties are accordingly free to agree these time limits – once
agreed, however, they become binding. In the absence of an
agreement between the parties, the court will set the filing calendar
.
4.3
Is there a mechanism in your civil justice system
whereby a defendant can pass on or share liability by
bringing an action against a third party?
A defendant can file a claim against third parties compelling them
to intervene in the ongoing proceedings, and hold the defendant
(partially) harmless against the main claim. Such claim is allowed,
to the extent it is not frivolous, or filed with the sole intent of
delaying the main claim.
4.4
What happens if the defendant does not defend the
claim?
A judgment in default will be issued. Opposition proceedings are,
however, possible against a judgment in default.

[Jastall]

And again do you really believe people are spending £17 to spend barely a % of the gold the WoW token sells for?

7K gold is not hard to make. Nor are War resources or Marks of Honor.

And no farming a few Marks or War Resources is not a grind. It takes little to no effort. Calling it a "grind" is funny.

If you have trouble making 7k gold right now then that is on you. That's selling 3-4 flasks at most as an Alchemist. Or bits of Honorable gear which are easy to make.

If you have trouble farming War Resources when there are loads of World Quests up that award it not to mention Warfront quests now that award 250 per quest upto 1k then again your fault.

Stop pretending it's a grind if you don't use the gold option. And nobody in their right mind is wasting £17 to only spend 7k of it on bonus rolls. I mean if they are then they are a moron when there are much cheaper and just as easy alternatives.

Furthermore, seals are capped at 2/week, and you need to actually do an in-game activity before you can use them, with the result of your roll depending on said activity. This isn't at all like a loot box.

[Krastyn]

Furthermore, seals are capped at 2/week, and you need to actually do an in-game activity before you can use them, with the result of your roll depending on said activity. This isn't at all like a loot box.

So if they capped you at buying 2 loot boxes a week, then no problem? If a casino only lets you place two bets a week at the roulette table, are they no longer a gambling establishment?

You can can queue for a world boss, LFR, or various old content and down something with little to no effort. You can also just flat out buy a carry, and then "gamble". Conversely, if a casino were to make you dribble a basketball for 30 seconds before placing a bet, are they no longer a gambling establishment?

The reason they are classifying loot boxes as gambling is because of the mechanic, not the frequency or what you have to do to use them.

If you want to classify loot boxes as gambling, then please also classify:
Any collectible cards that come in random packs (sports, garbagepail, etc)
Any collectible card game, both physical and digital (provided in game currency can be bought with money)
Any feature of a video game that involves random chance that can be done with money (like the WoW BMAH items)
Any good that can be purchased but contains random contents, such as this.

Some games do loot boxes right, some don't. Two examples of ones done right would be the Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, and Animal Crossing Pocket Camp on mobile.

[Lazuli]

As much as I'd like EA to die in a fire this will be dragged out forever and lead to nothing most likely. However loot boxes are disgusting waste of money that should not be allowed, it is very clearly gambling. If you want extra money from your customers on top of us already paying for DLC you should release cosmetics and items of convenience with no random chance to obtain them. This shit is a plague but devs don't wanna bother actually developing anything anymore and if they do it's behind some RNG paywall cancer.

I don't see what's so hard about not being a total piece of shit and just opening an in game store with all kinds of cool things to buy. It's not like these fuckheads don't already make an infinite amount of money from other sources.

EA are not the only ones that do this either, even Blizzard does it.

[reauxmont]

You heard it here first folks! Spending money, regardless on what it is, is gambling.
...

I have to say this. People like you is why we have fucked and twisted values in the world.

Did you read the whole sentence? He continues to say that it's gambling if you're "winning" something instead of directly purchasing it, which sounds about right if you compare it to wikipedia's gambling definition:

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

In all honesty, I kind of agree with EA's arguments here. Loot boxes aren't gambling, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're fair to the consumer.

Also quoting you on this since you seem to have a wrong understanding about what gambling actually is. See above.

[Makabreska]

That is because it is easier at this stage to simply tie them up in court beforehand and see where the so-called dice rolls.
This is nothing to do with them caring as a whole, but simply the legal team doing what they do. They would do the exact same in any country, because it is cost effective. When it is no longer cost effective, they will stop giving a damn.

Please learn how business and risk/reward works.

And what about 2k pleading their fans to convince the gov that players want lootboxes? You said no company will "literally give a fuck" and I see plenty of fucks given.

[Guardian Bob]

But here is the thing why can I not just directly buy the "Pink hat", Why must I spend money on a game of chance (Loot Box's). I have no problem with cosmetic MTX's and in most cases no problems with DLC ether.

But cut content and lootbox's are a plague on gaming. You could spend $20+ before you get that "Pink Hat" when normally it would be a $2.99 DLC at most.

Want to sell a shit ton of cosmetic's then fine go for it, But remove the random chance of it and let me buy directly.

A Example of this is Dead By Daylight, They just added MTX's and virtual currency. There is no lootbox's and 90% of the stuff you can buy with $$$ you can unlock via just playing the game.

I see a much bigger issue. Even without lootbox's, I still have to buy cosmetics to customize my character. Like in Minecraft I can customize my characters skin, and even mod the game to my heart's content. But in games like OverWatch I can't cause you buy a chance to get a skin. If I could just buy the skin, I still wont' be able to make my own custom skin or mod the game.

As much as people here love OverWatch and wanna defend it, TeamFortess 2 is just better cause you can make maps, mods, skins, and etc. Micro-transactions and lootbox's hurt gaming... period.

[Greevir]

EA will throw some pocket change at this and it'll go away.

[Surreality]

You know the real sad thing? People think the people defending this online are paid shills. When if you look them up so many of them are randos trying to make youtube welfare doing "EPIC LOCKBOX OPENING RECATION, BEST DROP EVAR?!?!?" videos.

The second hand videogame media climate is such a fucking shitshow.

It's a little counterproductive though. People see that the YTers are constantly getting awesome loots and think they have the same chance. When they figure out that they aren't getting the same kind of drops at the same rates, they get disappointed. Then they properly aim that disappointment at EA. I firmly believe that the more popular YTers are given great loot box drops by EA so that they can make these videos that give people this false hope.

[The Stormbringer]

Did you read the whole sentence? He continues to say that it's gambling if you're "winning" something instead of directly purchasing it, which sounds about right if you compare it to wikipedia's gambling definition:

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

Also quoting you on this since you seem to have a wrong understanding about what gambling actually is. See above.

If you use that as a definition for gambling, sure, it's gambling. So are crane games, or turn-machines with different types of candy or toys. We gonna ban those too?

I'm not saying they shouldn't make things more fair and equitable, mind you. I think there should be a way to directly buy the thing you want, but I also think they shouldn't just blanket remove loot boxes/chests/etc., especially in games like HotS or Overwatch where you can earn them for free just by playing the game.

[Verdugo]

As much as people here love OverWatch and wanna defend it, TeamFortess 2 is just better cause you can make maps, mods, skins, and etc. Micro-transactions and lootbox's hurt gaming... period.

Didnt TF2 start the whole lootbox fad?

[Makabreska]

Didnt TF2 start the whole lootbox fad?

Overwatch hugely popularized it.

[Dhrizzle]

will be interesting how it ends.

EA have to go down with the philosophy that their games are not gambling otherwise they open the floodgates if they do accept it is gambling and change the game in Belgium

Except the legal definition of gambling is decided by lawmakers. It's fine saying that lootboxes aren't gambling in the UK because the law here says gambling has to be for either money or something that can easily be exchanged for money. In Belgium they say that lootboxes in games are gambling, so whilst EA may disagree with that assessment the law is still the law.

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Didnt TF2 start the whole lootbox fad?

TF2 was a lot closer to actual gambling because there was a market for selling what came out of the boxes, it caused less controversy because the type of people who really like to whinge worship Valve but think companies like EA are the devil.

[Edge-]

TF2 was a lot closer to actual gambling because there was a market for selling what came out of the boxes, it caused less controversy because the type of people who really like to whinge worship Valve but think companies like EA are the devil.

Seriously, the existence of those marketplaces and especially the long-ignored existence of a tacitly supported external gambling network via CS:GO are infinitely worse than even the worst of lockboxes in an EA game due to how it led to actual big money gambling.

But it took years before anyone started raising an eyebrow because Valve. It's impressive how much popular developers like Valve or Blizzard can get away with without the community so much as batting an eye, most of the time.

[dope_danny]

Seriously, the existence of those marketplaces and especially the long-ignored existence of a tacitly supported external gambling network via CS:GO are infinitely worse than even the worst of lockboxes in an EA game due to how it led to actual big money gambling.

But it took years before anyone started raising an eyebrow because Valve. It's impressive how much popular developers like Valve or Blizzard can get away with without the community so much as batting an eye, most of the time.

I think Blizzard, Valve and Nintendo are the kings of "we have enough brand loyalty rubes that we can get away without just about anything"

[StrawberryZebra]

If you genuinely think EA will go to court, and fight a HUGE legal battle over some ruling in Belgium which will pretty much get ignored by the rest of the EU, then you are sadly living in a silly world.

Apparently, EA are planning on doing just that. They've challenged the law and been called out on it so this is the next step in the sequence of events. They knew what they were doing when they refused to comply.

I would assume EA's legal team are hard at work coming up with a way to justify their lootboxes as not being gambling. Which begs the question, if they're not gambling, what are they? The case may not set an EU wide precedent, but at the very least we'll have EA defining what their lootboxes actually are. Having a solid definition as to what lootboxes are if not gambling is going to help shape the discussion going forwards.

EA literally are the closest thing we have to a super villian organization... Up there with OSCORP, The Umbrella Corporation, LexCorp and Hammer Industries...

At this point, they're inching ever closer to being a real life version of Wayland Yutani. At present EA embody the worst aspects of corporate greed and have sunk to some deplorable depths in order to make as much profit as they can. Case in point, they're currently involved in a legal battle to continue to allow gambling in a game that's currently available to children aged 3+.

[Krastyn]

At this point, they're inching ever closer to being a real life version of Wayland Yutani. At present EA embody the worst aspects of corporate greed and have sunk to some deplorable depths in order to make as much profit as they can. Case in point, they're currently involved in a legal battle to continue to allow gambling in a game that's currently available to children aged 3+.

And multiple companies have been allowing gambling to games / toys for children aged 3+ for 50+ years. Where is the legislation against them? Or is it because they're not the big bad evil EA, you just don't care?

[Coombs]

This will mean nothing. All of the EU could come together and ban the sell of these items to anyone under the age of 18, and it would do nothing more than make all gaming companies find a new way to scam their customers. Look at Blizzard pulling the ebay scam in China for fuck sakes. I also do not believe for a moment that lootboxes target young children. They target adults with disposable income and limited amounts of time, some children get pulled in as well, but that's a horror story, and more money will be made off of people with impulse control and jobs. The entire practice is predatory and should be removed from gaming entirely. Age restrictions will do nothing. No one buys physical games anymore.

Gaming is the largest business in entertainment today and its not because games have become great. Candy crush, candy fucking crush, the Willy-Wonka Bejeweled is a BILLION dollar game. BILLION. A free to play shit game has grossed one mother fucking billion dollars. Just let that sink in. How much do you think that cost to make? Hearthstone is on cruise control and an independent company could easily make the same game with better quality. So when studios give you sob stories about the price to produce such games roll your fucking eyes. Roll them hard. Because you can offset the cost of production by chopping the game up and selling it in season passes. I'm honestly okay with spending $100 on a quality game out the door, and we need to move past this whole $60 hard number.

No matter the ruling a way will be found to overcome this until a law comes down that prevents predatory gating and micro transactions with random outcomes.