World first race... Why Horde dominated?

[Deleted]

Started even before that. Started in MoP. World First races we're pretty competitive up to and including Cataclysm. One could even argue they were Alliance dominated through Classic/TBC, though not quite to the level it is now for the Horde.

I might be wrong, but I believe one of the biggest flood migrations to be indeed MoP, Throne of Thunder to be exact. Primarily because there were a lot of "Beast" classified bosses, and trolls having both berserking and a 5% damage increase to beasts put them firmly at the top for deeps classes and most tanks (since we still had lulz-vengeace at this time) with most healers opting goblin for the utility.

[Necromantic]

trolls and undead are still the top DPS racials.
when? will of the forsaken is the new EMFH with even less of a CD.
lie all you want, it doesn't change numbers.

I'm afraid the "numbers" are speaking for themselves. The whole "racials" scapegoat really needs to die. It's old.

see my response about why you are wrong.

Your response doesn't really say I'm wrong. It's just some theorycrafting. I was there since vanilla (one of the people who can say that who are not lying and claiming they were) and the whole "racials" and "shamans" arguments were just scapegoats. I've done plenty of raids and never once have I ever heard anyone say anything remotely close to "thank God for those racials or we wouldn't have beat that..."

[Malikath]

I might be wrong, but I believe one of the biggest flood migrations to be indeed MoP, Throne of Thunder to be exact. Primarily because there were a lot of "Beast" classified bosses, and trolls having both berserking and a 5% damage increase to beasts put them firmly at the top for deeps classes and most tanks (since we still had lulz-vengeace at this time) with most healers opting goblin for the utility.

ToT's line-up of beast DPS-check bosses was probably the biggest bleed-over since wrath with blood elves making a joke out of yogg saron's adds.

[Rinaul]

because Alliance is dying because of horde favoritism, higher horde developpement, better narative.

This is why in Legion horde pretty much just went along with the alliance leaders for the whole campaign against the Legion... Right.

[RobertMugabe]

It's a legitimate question, and one I've not looked at.

As things stand, it looks like this:



Out of the top twenty guilds, eighteen of them are Horde - or, if you prefer, 90%.

Is the difference in racials really that influential for top end raiding, or is this really a community thing?

Nota Bene: Out of the top forty guilds, three are Alliance... With fifteen of them in the top 100. Fifteen.

Top guilds prefered the Horde since TBC because of their far better racials and because of their better Paladins.
In the other expansions the Horde still had better racials so there was no reason for them to ever switch. So basically everything snowballed. Many alliance Raiders would willingly pay a faction change to Play in a top guild that was on the Horde.
In Legion, the Horde racials were again very valuable, especially in mythic+. The blood elf aoe silence was also too good to miss out on.


Now in BfA, the Horde racials aren't really a must-have anymore, but the Alliance racials aren't good either... so basically there just isn't any reason for them to spend a lot of Money (like a serious amount) for faction changes. I even asked Sco from Method about that and he also pretty much said that faction changing everyone would be simply too expensive.

All in all: Horde racials have a history of being superior and from there on kicked in the snowball effect.

[Powerogue]

Warfronts probably helped. My alliance who I worked my ass off to gear is currently tied with my hordie who had access to warfronts gear.

[table3]

https://imgur.com/a/sAyTWtI

Alliance has always been under represented. You're 2 expansions late (WoD) in complaining about the under-representations of alliance in world 20 kills. All this information is from WoWprogress.com

[Malikath]

Warfronts probably helped. My alliance who I worked my ass off to gear is currently tied with my hordie who had access to warfronts gear.

not at this level of play, I'm sure their alts benefited greatly from the free gear but if you go hardcore you should've been past warfronts ilvl along time ago.
this is once again the cumulative effect of having more favorable racials since vanilla.
arc torrent is once again making a joke of content, i guess it makes sense it happened last time we were fighting an old god in a titan facility.
and if its one thing blizzard loves to do it's jack themselves off over their past successes while ignoring the modern cluster-fuck they've made.

[SupBrah]

Warfronts. The Horde are able to farm 340+ gear (yes, warforging and titanforging) for literally no effort, as many times a day as they want, and get a 370 quest reward which can proc to 390 itemlevel. So they have a huge advantage over alliance in gearing.

LMFAOOOOOOO!!! Yeah because 340 pieces in boring, tedious warfronts that were released the same week where people were getting 355+ gear spamming mythic plus in less time than it takes to finish the avg warfront is what's making or breaking the mythic race. You clearly have no idea WTF you're talking about.

I love when people like this guy, who I guarantee you never see content past LFR and/or normal raids, come in here and pretend to have an idea on how Mythic progression raiding is. The fact is that it's well known that horde is what you play if you want to find a good raiding guild. That's been the case for a decade.


Oh and to all the people kicking and screaming about "OP horde racials!!" just LMAO. Guess what? If the top 5 horde mythic raiding guilds had went alliance for Uldir, they would STILL be in the top 5 right now, even with out those "OP horde racials" people kick and scream about. Everyone brings up Troll racial, yet trolls tend to be quite rare outside of Druids. People scream about the blood elf racial, but it's really only useful on 1 or 2 boss fights, and even then bringing at least 2 priests makes their racial completely irrelevant.

Are racials nice? Sure, but let's be honest, they're not what's holding you back from being a mythic raider. So stop using them as an excuse.

[Paulosio]

Snowball effect... Slightly better racials in the past. The most cutting edge people move to horde to get that slight advantage which leads to a perception that the horde has a big advantage. Then more and more of the more cutting edge players move to horde as that faction gains more of a raiding scene.

There's a reason for people to move to horde for raiding. There is no reason to move to alliance for raiding beyond aesthetics.

It's the same thing that leads servers to have a massive faction imbalance. If you look at a server like Silvermoon EU it's massively alliance populated. If you were a horde raiding guild looking to move servers you would never pick silvermoon because there is just no pool of players to recruit from but if you are an alliance guild it would look like an attractive proposition. So that servers alliance population will only grow while it's horde population will only shrink as horde players transfer away to servers with more players and guilds to play with.

[Otimus]

Because the ultra hardcore like those are a niche within a niche within a niche, and that niche has historically gone to the horde and or horde dominated servers. It's a snowball effect, I think. It probably started due to racials, but I imagine it keeps going now because the ones that exist are already horde, and there aren't many other new ones being born.

[Paulosio]

The fact is that it's well known that horde is what you play if you want to find a good raiding guild. That's been the case for decades.

The game isn't decades old.

[SupBrah]

The game isn't decades old.

Yeah i meant to say a decade. Fixed

[Thage]

Historical reasons. Horde had OP racials in the past, and there was no reason to revert back to alliance. This is a self fulfilling prophecy til eternity.

Pretty much this. Orcs, trolls, and tauren had a small but noteworthy advantage in key roles (Orcs and Trolls as DPS, Tauren as tanks) and things just snowballed from there (in MoP, pandaren getting doubled-up food buffs didn't help matters any).

[Deleted]

Maybe I'll go Horde too once they apply the finishing touches to the Nightborne model.

[Malikath]

Pretty much this. Orcs, trolls, and tauren had a small but noteworthy advantage in key roles (Orcs and Trolls as DPS, Tauren as tanks) and things just snowballed from there (in MoP, pandaren getting doubled-up food buffs didn't help matters any).

pandaren didn't have any effect on faction balance, why even mention them?
the slew of caster mobs and beast type bosses made trolls and blood elves great for the first two tiers of MoP.

[Arnoux]

Doesn't matter at all. Do you need it to be balanced? Does it affect you in some way?

It matters to me heavily. I want to play alliance really badly, but most of the hungarians are horde players. All of my friends are horde players. So I just stick to horde like always. I wish cross faction m+ and raiding was a thing.

[Blodia]

i like how u count it as 'irrelevant' and u name few fights for it
It did matter, a lot, and tanks couldn't switch that easy as u describe to bersek stance and enrage and back, and counting windfury as better pve buff than BoM is again a questionable quote because windfury is better at random burst proc (something for pvp, kill someone before they heal, not in pve, where u need constant dps for long time), also rogues weren't only melee dps so again counting threat totem for ranged only is wrong (if u don't know, u can Bless of Salvation entire warrior class, and the tank just right click buff, something that did happen since warrior fury was really good at dps back then, we had warrior dps), u can't right click a totem buff on other hand
Only time berserk stance dance was not danger is with high geared tank so taking hits in berserk stance doesn't equal to instant healing touches

be it solo or raiding, having getoutofjailfreecard op human racial is always great, u literally have ability that make u not worried about any CC, that is a godsend in anything, like some bosses in WoD, so don't shove it aside, maybe as dps not that relevant (also dps do stand in fire just for 0.1 dps increase), but for a healer/tank, remove CC anytime is a gift
it should stayed imo but with 3min cd, that way it become way less op in pvp and in pve (where u won't ever take a cc trinket even if boss have all CC types in-game) it will still be op

Tanks could switch that easy. They had Tactical Mastery which allowed that switch to happen without gimping their rage too hard. All it took was 2 gcd's and some awareness. My Vanilla guild had no dwarf priests and we had 0 issues on Onyxia and Nefarian because our tank knew what he was doing. I named a few fights as examples of fights with AoE fear, there's surprisingly not many of them and only Onyxia actually fears EVERYONE and not just the melee.
And yes, Windfury is better than BoM because the shaman could have Windfury and Strength of Earth up, and in later content also twist Grace of Air if the mechanics allowed, giving the melee group Windfury, 77 str and 77 agi (not counting talents). So roughly 144 ap and 2% crit for Warriors and Rogues, with Windfury on top. You never used tranquil air on the melee group except for threat sensitive fights, in which the shaman usually twisted it with Windfury (windfury weapon enchant lasts 9s, so you have to swap to wf totem every 9s and then back to tranquil air), and you didn't even have to because well played tanks had 0 threat issues whatsoever except for when warriors popped reck in execute phase.
And zerker stance never was an issue, at all, because of how tank scaling worked in vanilla. You took 5% more damage for 1 swing? Big deal. It didn't reduce your block chance or dodge, so you still wouldn't get crushed which was the only actual threat to a tank back then outside of purely magic damage. After a few months of BWL you could dual wield tank and give 0 fucks about most bosses. Hell, our MT used to pop recklessness on Vael and still not die.
Also, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about in regards of windfury. It was the most important melee related buff in vanilla and tbc, and the only reason people played 2h fury in vanilla.

[Thorbalt]

It's a legitimate question, and one I've not looked at.

As things stand, it looks like this:



Out of the top twenty guilds, eighteen of them are Horde - or, if you prefer, 90%.

Is the difference in racials really that influential for top end raiding, or is this really a community thing?

Nota Bene: Out of the top forty guilds, three are Alliance... With fifteen of them in the top 100. Fifteen.

Good thing we know that the morons who push for world firsts are not worth caring about and will do anything, no matter how pathetically small and stupid, to get the slightest advantage. now we just need the forum morons to understand that the real difference in ally vs horde is at best 1% difference one way or another...or in other words an amount they will never see a difference on between one side or another

- - - Updated - - -

Warfronts. The Horde are able to farm 340+ gear (yes, warforging and titanforging) for literally no effort, as many times a day as they want, and get a 370 quest reward which can proc to 390 itemlevel. So they have a huge advantage over alliance in gearing.

and you (plus any other idiot who has this "thought" in their obviously empty skull with no brain inside it) are a fucking retard if you think the top guilds in the world would spend all the time warfronts take for ONE 340 item when they were already decked halfway out in 355+

[Deleted]

Warfronts. The Horde are able to farm 340+ gear (yes, warforging and titanforging) for literally no effort, as many times a day as they want, and get a 370 quest reward which can proc to 390 itemlevel. So they have a huge advantage over alliance in gearing.

this is #1 bullshit..... those players in the world first race were 340+ in the first weak (if not the first 3days) of the xpac and DGAF about the warfront rewards even with a chance at titanforge.... they are farming rated pvp and mythic+++ with their 5th alt by now.

I'm horde, I'm not a progression raider, and I do warfront with an alt.... out of 20 warfronts, I had 1 warforged piece of gear. that's one 350ilvl and nineteen 340 to the scrapper if you do mythic+ and NM raid.

if you care about 340ilvl gear, you are not in the world first race.