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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Only SINCE VANILLA son, try to keep up.
    Never cared about it, so why bother.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    Yeah, because a friend of a friend said so, right?
    It’s called reading abilities, and it’s true all u get is mute for a day to begin with and then more days if you keep doing it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronotose View Post
    What do you mean? As described, it isn't a "scam" at all. It's just a game of chance weighted against you, as is every form of gambling everywhere. It actually has a *much higher* chance of success than most any form of gambling you can find. Blizzard's own games (hots) have far worse gambling deals than this.
    My point is that you'd literally have to be stupid to go for something so blatant. Other forms of gambling at least attempt to mask the odds and make it seem like there might be more of a chance. Some you actually can make money out of if you quasi-cheat (card counting, for example), though proper casinos and so on go to great lengths to deal with that. The whole reason the odds are obfuscated normally is to allow smarter people to get fooled (which works up to a point).

    I guess it's a bit like 411 scams though - they intentionally spell things wrong to weed out more intelligent people from responding. Here you weed out anyone who can do basic math.

    Quote Originally Posted by cronotose View Post
    You yourself have probably "fallen" for scams with a lower chance of success.
    Go on, tell me which ones I have fallen for. I think you'll find otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by cronotose View Post
    Ever buy a pack of cards for a TCG?
    Not with the intention of making money off them, no. Nor in fact with an expectation about what they contained other than "more cards" which is in fact what they contained. It's interesting actually, as soon as I found out there were odds and stuff and people opened pack after pack seeking specific cards, not just because they wanted more cards generally, I stopped playing TCGs. As you can imagine, that was in the early '90s, not long after Magic came out. I did actually get a Serra Angel hilariously enough, but gave it away because I had no idea people put monetary values on this stuff until later, when one of my friends was like "YOU HAD WHAT?!!". I didn't get back into card-based games or deckbuilding until LCGs came out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean, isn't that the principle behind all gambling? "My luck is better than average, I will win!" is pretty much the reasoning behind gambling. That and crippling addiction that most psychiatrists admit cannot really be cured.
    Sure, the difference here is the level of blatant-ness. I mean, normally you disguise that kind of thing, very heavily in some cases. I think even most degenerate gamblers could see that a simple die roll where they have a 60% chance of losing and yet only get 2:1 odds, is a bad deal. Maybe I wildly overestimate gamblers and humanity in general though.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2018-09-16 at 05:58 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by skannerz22 View Post
    they never get banned
    They do get banned. You are new to WoW. Otherwise you would have known that these gambling bots come and go. I havnt seen them for years and now, all of a sudden, they are back. I don't care but you do. Instead of having a hissy fit on a fan website do the correct thing and report them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    My point is that you'd literally have to be stupid to go for something so blatant. Other forms of gambling at least attempt to mask the odds and make it seem like there might be more of a chance. Some you actually can make money out of if you quasi-cheat (card counting, for example), though proper casinos and so on go to great lengths to deal with that. The whole reason the odds are obfuscated normally is to allow smarter people to get fooled (which works up to a point).

    I guess it's a bit like 411 scams though - they intentionally spell things wrong to weed out more intelligent people from responding. Here you weed out anyone who can do basic math.



    Go on, tell me which ones I have fallen for. I think you'll find otherwise.



    Not with the intention of making money off them, no. Nor in fact with an expectation about what they contained other than "more cards" which is in fact what they contained. It's interesting actually, as soon as I found out there were odds and stuff and people opened pack after pack seeking specific cards, not just because they wanted more cards generally, I stopped playing TCGs. As you can imagine, that was in the early '90s, not long after Magic came out. I did actually get a Serra Angel hilariously enough, but gave it away because I had no idea people put monetary values on this stuff until later, when one of my friends was like "YOU HAD WHAT?!!". I didn't get back into card-based games or deckbuilding until LCGs came out.



    Sure, the difference here is the level of blatant-ness. I mean, normally you disguise that kind of thing, very heavily in some cases. I think even most degenerate gamblers could see that a simple die roll where they have a 60% chance of losing and yet only get 2:1 odds, is a bad deal. Maybe I wildly overestimate gamblers and humanity in general though.
    "Go on, tell me which ones I have fallen for. I think you'll find otherwise."

    You're taking this far too personally. This wasn't an accusation. It's just that most people have.

    "Not with the intention of making money off them, no."

    The intention isn't relevant. If you bought them, you have bought into the same game but with significantly worse odds. You can acquire the exact same cards for less money as singles. So after getting a little worked up about how you've never fallen for it, you then immediately admit that you've fallen for it.

    "I think even most degenerate gamblers could see that a simple die roll where they have a 60% chance of losing and yet only get 2:1 odds, is a bad deal."

    uhhh Most forms of gambling directly *tell* you the odds, and they're significantly lower than that. Go read a lottery ticket. Shoot. We're WoW players. Most of us buy extra roll tokens every single week, when the vast majority of the time you're just throwing a couple thousand gold away.

  6. #26
    Wasn't even aware this was a thing. I've not had to return to a city in ages. Especially after getting my portable AH earlier this expac.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cronotose View Post
    The intention isn't relevant. If you bought them, you have bought into the same game but with significantly worse odds. You can acquire the exact same cards for less money as singles. So after getting a little worked up about how you've never fallen for it, you then immediately admit that you've fallen for it.
    Wow, you weren't alive in the early '90s, huh, were you? Or were presumably a small child. None of that was true in, say, 1993 in the UK.

    There was no eBay, son. No going online to buy some cards. The idea of "singles" being sold was not one that really existed - we didn't even have Baseball trading cards like you did in the US. I seriously doubt we even had conventions you could have gone to (if you were an adult) and buy Magic stuff.

    So maybe try and find out about the world people lived in, before shrieking about "buying singles", when it wasn't something that was possible, or something anyone even thought about? I didn't see "singles" being sold anywhere until I went into a gaming store to buy p&p RPG books in the later '90s, probably around '98/'99. By then Magic had got so big that the store was selling some single cards and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by cronotose View Post
    "I think even most degenerate gamblers could see that a simple die roll where they have a 60% chance of losing and yet only get 2:1 odds, is a bad deal."

    uhhh Most forms of gambling directly *tell* you the odds, and they're significantly lower than that. Go read a lottery ticket. Shoot. We're WoW players. Most of us buy extra roll tokens every single week, when the vast majority of the time you're just throwing a couple thousand gold away.
    Oh boy. Just to check, you know that most gambling where they give you odds, those odds do NOT reflect the actual chance of something happening, right?

    Lotteries are different in that the odds are more specific, and they do typically tell you the chance. People play them for the dream, though, or for the social interaction with the cashier. Or to give them a reason to get out of bed in the morning (no coincidence the older, typically retired, people tend to be the main users of them).

    Re: tokens that's an interesting example because of the way they work, as they offer you a chance to access something you never could otherwise, due to lockouts. So I think that's a bit different. AFAIK, the odds on getting anything via them is the same as killing the same boss again (or similar, given you can only use them if you didn't get loot). If they're the same thing as a casino, then all of WoW raiding arguably is, which I mean, fair enough, but it seems like a leap to me.

  8. #28
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    Completely random but slightly related question; why is naming and shaming forbidden on MMO champion? People deserve to be put on full blast for doing bad shit. It's called a social blacklist, and back before LFG/LFM/LFR, the only way a community would recognize obvious assholes would be through having their names put on full blast which; I reiterate, they deserve.

    It's social darwinism. Not only should it be allowed, it should be celebrated. Mindlessly reporting someone and moving on while Blizzard fails to answer extremely obvious problems like trade spammers selling ingame carries for real world money seems like something that won't work. Maybe it worked in recent years since with the slowing down of legion's final months, the player base was small enough for the dev team to actually track down and snipe TOS breakers, but RIGHT now? LITERALLY RIGHT now? I don't think Blizzard's squad has the man power to individually finger through each reported player, you're talking about tens of thousands of people moderated by perhaps a dozen or less at any given time.

    Put them on full blast. Let people know who they are. Public shaming helps the innocent and damns the reviled. There is no downside. Sure it's probably a dick move, but so is doing shit like this in the first place.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by skannerz22 View Post
    they never get banned
    Considering gambling online and in an environment populated by minors would break the laws of some countries WoW is sold in, yes, Blizzard will take these reports very seriously.
    RETH

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Considering gambling online and in an environment populated by minors would break the laws of some countries WoW is sold in, yes, Blizzard will take these reports very seriously.
    I have no doubt that they take it seriously, but they can only take so much at once. Just because it's Illegal and against the TOS means you can get everyone yourself with a simple report. This is an MMO, you can protect yourself and your community from these dregs with a blacklist AND a report.

  11. #31
    Yes, because it makes me realize how many stupid and gullible people play WoW.

    I've seen that sort of thing happening on my server and I can't believe people actually do it. Nobody stops to think about the fact that if they're doing something like that then the odds are likely slanted in their favor.
    If it's only for gold though I don't actually believe it's against the ToS. I could be wrong though.
    Last edited by Irian; 2018-09-16 at 07:58 PM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Stunstation View Post
    It’s called reading abilities, and it’s true all u get is mute for a day to begin with and then more days if you keep doing it.
    Report for spam gives silences, yes. In no way does that mean that other offenses do not get bans. So, where did you get that idea from?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Please tell me that exact one was a real scam? You'd have to be basically terrible at maths to fall for that, that's amazing.



    Only SINCE VANILLA son, try to keep up.



    Er, no.

    It's been against the TOS since Vanilla. People have been being suspended or banned for it since then. Particularly as it's risky for Blizzard due to the gambling laws of certain countries. So it's never "legitimate". It might be "honest" in some cases, but it's still against the TOS.
    No, I don't think my example was the exact scam, but I can't remember the specifics. The ones I've seen lately only advertise the casino, but not the exact rules and I didn't bother to ask

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by skannerz22 View Post
    they sit around everyday breaking the TOS by gambling/scamming people with /roll taking everyones gold and spamming /say /yell

    i rather the fly hacking corpse text of old gold sellers than these box humping gambling scammers

    they are on every server everywhere on those boxes or the barrel
    --- snip ---

    i feel like nixxiom has missed an opportunity to make a machinima about them
    I feel like if you get scammed by these people then you deserved to lose your money. You get to learn a valuable life lesson and at least it was just gold in a videogame.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    Report for spam gives silences, yes. In no way does that mean that other offenses do not get bans. So, where did you get that idea from?
    I´ve been botting before, and selling gold never have I ever recived anything else than silence, warnings.. So Im just lucky?

  15. #35
    Field Marshal Birdofgerror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrins View Post
    I feel like if you get scammed by these people then you deserved to lose your money. You get to learn a valuable life lesson and at least it was just gold in a videogame.
    That's victim blaming and generally extremely terrible advice. What you support is general anarchy, since any and all negative interactions can be "learned from" to not happen again. You're not WRONG per se, but you're missing the obvious extension of your philosophy. Someone gets scammed, and them makes it against the rules for anyone to scam, so 1 person learns a life lesson, then goes on to protect everyone else.

    Life is short, and humans can't learn every life lesson in one lifetime, so people exsanguinate the need for those lessons by simply employing the obvious solution. It's how we as a civilization survive, so people can benefit from electricity without having to learn how to generate it themselves, or watch television without having to learn how to make one. This is just one very small, cosmic example, but this is a general nuisance and harms people indirectly, so people take it upon themselves to remove the problem entirely instead of leaving it for "people to learn lessons". The lesson loses meaning if you simply remove the problem.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stunstation View Post
    I´ve been botting before, and selling gold never have I ever recived anything else than silence, warnings.. So Im just lucky?
    Yes. Unfortunately.

  17. #37
    Thats why I set the trade channel in another tab and left general channel... I guess I miss a lot of selling opportunities but you can't read anything with all the flood anyway

    People shouting "BFA sucks" while playing 18h/day, that's the people I hate

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Considering gambling online and in an environment populated by minors would break the laws of some countries WoW is sold in, yes, Blizzard will take these reports very seriously.
    Not some, all countries have an age limit for gambling (more than majority here in belgium (21 vs 18))

  19. #39
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    In the US it's allowed, but you're not allowed to advertise it. In the EU it's not allowed, period.. That said, if you only do it within your guild, no one will report you, so you can get away with it.

    Report them, put them on ignore, you no longer have to see them.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    I agree the game needs an official casino. You could tie it to the DMF, mogs and professions.Maybe there could be an arena there as well.
    It's not going to happen. Considering recent Belgium's investigation over EA FIFA's lootboxes looks like all the fascist states around the world will start to dig into the video games for gambling and no serious game company will introduce in-game casino's especially if you can buy gold for real money.
    S.H.

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