Mag'har priests

[Trassk]

When I knew I could play an orc priest I jumped at the chance, and now have one. But i'm still trying to figure out how best to work out the lore around this.

Straightforward it might seem simple, the shadowmoon clan had priests or voidmancers or anyone who messed around with the shadows, since thats what happened with the clans and the dark star.

In the scenario of us getting the mag'har, we see how several orcs have become light bound by the lightbound draenei lead by Yrel, who we fight.

By the end of it, Geya'rah declares given what the lightbound did, and seeing how the alliance are afflicated with the draenei and the light, she will join the horde and the mag'har.

But this creates a bit of a problem. Sure the alliance now have light forged draenei (that are a different kind of light follower to light bound), and the rest of the alliance have races that follow the light in some way or other (humans follow generic light, night elves follow the light of Elune, dwarfs and worgen do the same as humans).

The problem I have is getting to grips with how if the mag'har have declared the light the draenei followed as much an enemy as the Fel, how do they get around the fact several horde races follow the light also? Tauren sunwalkers follow An'she, Blood elves follow the sunwell, not to mention several priests in the horde who can follow the light in some capacity (besides lorewise the forsaken).

So how would an orc priest get around this. It seems like one of those annoying aspects were by a certain class needs more depth to how they function in their own society. Human warlocks for example function by operating in the shadows away from he light loving folk.

And since a priest is pretty much 2 holy specs and one shadow, its harder to work around an orc priest, especially when blizzard set the bar on how they should be hating the light now given what it did to them on their homeworld.

Really I'm just trying to figure out how to work this or make sense of it.

[Ilfayt]

When I knew I could play an orc priest I jumped at the chance, and now have one. But i'm still trying to figure out how best to work out the lore around this.

Straightforward it might seem simple, the shadowmoon clan had priests or voidmancers or anyone who messed around with the shadows, since thats what happened with the clans and the dark star.

In the scenario of us getting the mag'har, we see how several orcs have become light bound by the lightbound draenei lead by Yrel, who we fight.

By the end of it, Geya'rah declares given what the lightbound did, and seeing how the alliance are afflicated with the draenei and the light, she will join the horde and the mag'har.

But this creates a bit of a problem. Sure the alliance now have light forged draenei (that are a different kind of light follower to light bound), and the rest of the alliance have races that follow the light in some way or other (humans follow generic light, night elves follow the light of Elune, dwarfs and worgen do the same as humans).

The problem I have is getting to grips with how if the mag'har have declared the light the draenei followed as much an enemy as the Fel, how do they get around the fact several horde races follow the light also? Tauren sunwalkers follow An'she, Blood elves follow the sunwell, not to mention several priests in the horde who can follow the light in some capacity (besides lorewise the forsaken).

So how would an orc priest get around this. It seems like one of those annoying aspects were by a certain class needs more depth to how they function in their own society. Human warlocks for example function by operating in the shadows away from he light loving folk.

And since a priest is pretty much 2 holy specs and one shadow, its harder to work around an orc priest, especially when blizzard set the bar on how they should be hating the light now given what it did to them on their homeworld.

Really I'm just trying to figure out how to work this or make sense of it.

I have a feeling it's probably gonna end up being like how the modern/green orcs treated warlocks, a 'nice tool' to have, even if they despised demons for what they did. Doesn't mean they all support it, let alone 'glorify' it's presence in their forces.

That would actually be kinda nifty, if say Mag'har get their own little town later, to have a place like the Cleft of Shadows...except, reverse, where the priests gather away from the rest of their clan.

[AbalDarkwind]

It's mentioned in the Mag'har scenario that Grommash and Yrel worked together for many years before she became a zealot. My guess is that the Mag'har understand the difference between using the Light and zealously following it. After all, we saw such nuance when Xe'ra tried to forcibly convert Illidan. Velen, one of the premier followers of the Light in lore, essentially shrugged when Illidan roasted one of the most powerful Naaru alive. I would assume Mag'har Orc Priests are likely in the same boat.

Besides, Forsaken Priests have had this problem forever, and no one really questions it anymore.

[Trassk]

It's mentioned in the Mag'har scenario that Grommash and Yrel worked together for many years before she became a zealot. My guess is that the Mag'har understand the difference between using the Light and zealously following it. After all, we saw such nuance when Xe'ra tried to forcibly convert Illidan. Velen, one of the premier followers of the Light in lore, essentially shrugged when Illidan roasted one of the most powerful Naaru alive. I would assume Mag'har Orc Priests are likely in the same boat.

Besides, Forsaken Priests have had this problem forever, and no one really questions it anymore.

yeah, just seems one of those lore loopholes blizzard never answers.

But yours makes a lot of sense, the idea that the orcs did begin to understand the light and how it worked. Looking into the shadowmoon clans outlook, they were astrologers who only followed void magic because a corrupted narru landing on draenor, so it makes as much sense that the same kind of orcs would begin to understand how the light worked in the universe along with the shadows, before yrel's side became zealots.

Like to imagine orcs making a pack with the draenei after the war and travelled to meet with the draenei for some years and learn from them, but then things turned south, so the orcs know how to call on the light as they do the void.

I suppose taking a page from the void elves lore, they know how to control and use the void without becoming consumed by it (sort of), so if the light works in the same way, you don't actually need a religious outlook in warcraft in order to use it, since the light exists simply as a power the same as fire or water.
What actually matters in that degree is how the power effects the user, such as a forsaken can summon the light, but it harms them because of their state, so its not a belief that harms them, rather a physical aspect of themselves.
And since orcs wouldn't have that problem they could summon it the same way without needing a faith.

[Syegfryed]

maghar priests prob don't see the light as the subject of adoration or faith

they work pretty much like trolls or taurens priests, they do not have faith in the light but other things, this faith grant then the "holy magic/power"

this already happened with MU orcs who also can be priests in the shadowmoon clan

orcs have faith in their ancestors like trolls with loas, this give then the background and reason to use light magic without being connive to the Draeneis and their light zealotry

the point is they don't share religion, faith or anything else, and this thing of "orcs living with draeneis starting to take their customs and use the light" sounds bad, awkward and a bit out or reality and rly not necessary when orcs already have a perfect background for priests

[Trassk]

the point is they don't share religion, faith or anything else, and this thing of "orcs living with draeneis starting to take their customs and use the light" sounds bad, awkward and a bit out or reality and rly not necessary when orcs already have a perfect background for priests

In regards to how the lightbound orcs came into it, we've already seen blizzard wanted to push the idea that narru and its followers want to force others to adhere to the lights rule or die, so the lightbound orcs have the light infused into them like xe'ra tried to do with illidan.

In regards to orcs learning from draenei, this isn't a new concept, even way back with the MU timeline with rise of the horde, young durotan and orgrim meet velen, he seemed to want to teach them some things about his culture to them, though certain he'd never have been one to force others to adhere to the light, so its not beyond possibility to imagine orcs and draenei sharing wisdom for some of them. After all there was a exile group of shadowmoon orcs in shadowmoon valley who some even joined your alliance garrison.

[Syegfryed]

In regards to how the lightbound orcs came into it, we've already seen blizzard wanted to push the idea that narru and its followers want to force others to adhere to the lights rule or die, so the lightbound orcs have the light infused into them like xe'ra tried to do with illidan.

In regards to orcs learning from draenei, this isn't a new concept, even way back with the MU timeline with rise of the horde, young durotan and orgrim meet velen, he seemed to want to teach them some things about his culture to them, though certain he'd never have been one to force others to adhere to the light, so its not beyond possibility to imagine orcs and draenei sharing wisdom for some of them. After all there was a exile group of shadowmoon orcs in shadowmoon valley who some even joined your alliance garrison.

sure, but the point still stand, ogres priests don't necessary come to be from orcs and draenei friendship

Orcs priests were something who existed before this "union", so we can safe say they are priests like trolls and taurens, with faith in their ancestors and not related with human/draenei style of light worship

[Trassk]

sure, but the point still stand, ogres priests don't necessary come to be from orcs and draenei friendship

Orcs priests were something who existed before this "union", so we can safe say they are priests like trolls and taurens, with faith in their ancestors and not related with human/draenei style of light worship

suppose so. But how then would the concept of holy work for an orc priest then? Because short of just saying 'they wouldn't have holy magic', which is just dismissing 2 specs to the class itself for lore convenience, there has to be a better explanation for how they can summon holy magic.

[Deleted]

suppose so. But how then would the concept of holy work for an orc priest then? Because short of just saying 'they wouldn't have holy magic', which is just dismissing 2 specs to the class itself for lore convenience, there has to be a better explanation for how they can summon holy magic.

They simply don't use it. It's that simple. Just like lorewise, nearly all human, dwarf, blood elf or draenei priests are holy. Or how all Lightforged Priests are holy and all Void elf Priests are shadow.

We see Mar'ghar priest NPCs in the scenario and they are shadow priests of the Shadowmoon clan. It's that simple, if you RP a priest, you will be most likely a shadow priest.

[Jastall]

No weirder than Tauren or Lightforged priests using the Shadow, Undead priests using the Light, or NE ones using any of the specs considering they're supposed to worship a moon goddess and should by all rights use spells that look like they belong to Balance druids.

Priests are the class with most gameplay and story segregation by far. Just roll with the fact that the class's specs and visuals are almost entirely gameplay conventions rather than lore-based.

[Noomz]

When I knew I could play an orc priest I jumped at the chance, and now have one. But i'm still trying to figure out how best to work out the lore around this.

Straightforward it might seem simple, the shadowmoon clan had priests or voidmancers or anyone who messed around with the shadows, since thats what happened with the clans and the dark star.

In the scenario of us getting the mag'har, we see how several orcs have become light bound by the lightbound draenei lead by Yrel, who we fight.

By the end of it, Geya'rah declares given what the lightbound did, and seeing how the alliance are afflicated with the draenei and the light, she will join the horde and the mag'har.

But this creates a bit of a problem. Sure the alliance now have light forged draenei (that are a different kind of light follower to light bound), and the rest of the alliance have races that follow the light in some way or other (humans follow generic light, night elves follow the light of Elune, dwarfs and worgen do the same as humans).

The problem I have is getting to grips with how if the mag'har have declared the light the draenei followed as much an enemy as the Fel, how do they get around the fact several horde races follow the light also? Tauren sunwalkers follow An'she, Blood elves follow the sunwell, not to mention several priests in the horde who can follow the light in some capacity (besides lorewise the forsaken).

So how would an orc priest get around this. It seems like one of those annoying aspects were by a certain class needs more depth to how they function in their own society. Human warlocks for example function by operating in the shadows away from he light loving folk.

And since a priest is pretty much 2 holy specs and one shadow, its harder to work around an orc priest, especially when blizzard set the bar on how they should be hating the light now given what it did to them on their homeworld.

Really I'm just trying to figure out how to work this or make sense of it.

It's shit writing, that's all. The Alliance has as much diversity in their magic as the Horde does, and it's hypocritical as fuck that the Mag'har condemn the Alliance. Typical orc stupidity.

[Trassk]

They simply don't use it. It's that simple. Just like lorewise, nearly all human, dwarf, blood elf or draenei priests are holy. Or how all Lightforged Priests are holy and all Void elf Priests are shadow.

We see Mar'ghar priest NPCs in the scenario and they are shadow priests of the Shadowmoon clan. It's that simple, if you RP a priest, you will be most likely a shadow priest.

not quite. If your remember examples in outland like the auchanei, they were priests who developed darker magics in line with their death worship. Humans and dwarves easily can adopt shadow magic they are not bound to holy, same with blood elves.

Also as its already been established we fight against light bound orcs in that scenario showing orcs can use holy magic, so whatever outdated piece of lore claiming that can't do because of faction principles (you know the one that also claimed shamans only belonged in the horde and paladins in the alliance), its showing now they just about anyone can use holy magic and it isn't restricted, its just another source of power to be manipulated like shadow magic.

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It's shit writing, that's all. The Alliance has as much diversity in their magic as the Horde does, and it's hypocritical as fuck that the Mag'har condemn the Alliance. Typical orc stupidity.

think your find equal levels of stupidity is on both sides of the factions these days.

[Noomz]

not quite. If your remember examples in outland like the auchanei, they were priests who developed darker magics in line with their death worship. Humans and dwarves easily can adopt shadow magic they are not bound to holy, same with blood elves.

Also as its already been established we fight against light bound orcs in that scenario showing orcs can use holy magic, so whatever outdated piece of lore claiming that can't do because of faction principles (you know the one that also claimed shamans only belonged in the horde and paladins in the alliance), its showing now they just about anyone can use holy magic and it isn't restricted, its just another source of power to be manipulated like shadow magic.

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think your find equal levels of stupidity is on both sides of the factions these days.

Yes, but this is a case of orcs going "ME ANGRY! SMASH!". Without looking at themselves, or even at those around them. Again. Really just proving Yrel entirely right about them being destructive and chaotic.

[veovis]

It would be cool if mag’har priests could have joined the alliance. You could play as one of the priests that was working with the dranaei trying to force the light on the other orcs.

[Kathranis]

I think it's pretty easy to work out a personal Priest story for them, Shadowmoon Clan or not.

The Shadowmoon Clan already had priests who were delving into the Void when we first went to Draenor, so that alone is justification for a Mag'har Shadow Priest. However, the Dark Star was purified in this timeline, becoming K'ara once again, and they spent a few decades working together with the draenei. It stands to reason that during that time, they would have developed a more rounded understanding of Light and Shadow, and probably spread their teachings amongst other clans within the now-unified Mag'har.

However, Grommash and many of the other Mag'har recognize that the Lightbound are slaves to the Light, and they will never allow themselves to be slaves. That doesn't necessarily mean that they won't wield the Light, but it means that they won't turn themselves over to its tyranny.

[A Chozo]

You are struggling to understand why a Orc Priest exists? In a world of corruption? It's all about LOK'TAR OGAR!

First, learn a bit about Priest lore.

They don't serve the Light. Some do, but most Priest simply have faith, in whatever they want to. Even faith in their Warchief could work. They are similar to a Shaman, but they can't work with forces around them - no, Light and Void manifest from nowhere. From the Will, and/or from Faith.

Now, consider your Mag'har. You'r an uncorrupted Orc, from the United Clans - no more Blackrocks, or Shadowmoon, no: You are from the UNITED CLANS. You unite the culture of several clans, coupled with the last remnants of Blackfuse's Engineerings. That's mostly it. Now, you live in a World constantly attacked by Corruptive Forces: Fel of the Burning Legion, Void of the Pale Orcs, Nature of the Botani and their plant masters, and most recently, Light from the Draenei.

What could you, a spellcasting Orc, do? Become a Shaman, of course. Or, as you learned with the Draenei before they became zealots, you could become a Priest, and learn about the importance of the balance between Light and Shadow.

Being a Priest isn't about being a Shadow Priest, or a Holy Priest - no, you are a full Priest, and by default you know how to wield Holy and Shadow magic.. And you do have faith: In the Ancestrals, and in the Elemental Spirits (or in something else - maybe the Stars if you are Shadowmoon, or maybe in your old Clan, if you are, let's say, a Blackrock.). As a Mag'har Priest, it is your duty to study the forces that those Draenei are misusing, and bring back the balance to Draenor.

From a tactical point of view, a Mag'har Priest is very usefull in the battlefield against corruptive forces: they can work as field medics and purifiers using Holy magic (but never submiting to the "Light" - the Naaru, in this case), and Shadow magic to amplify damage against Holy-infused enemies. It's simple as that. The Light heals and purifies - but the traitorous Draenei use it to subdue. The Mag'har Priest must fight against such heresy.

Again, head this carefuly: SERVING THE HOLY LIGHT OF CREATION IS OPTIONAL. Blizzard hammered this in our heads during the Argus Campaign. The Light and Void are just forces - but some beings, attuned to those forces (Void Lords, Naaru, etc) preach their specific ways of life. It's in those beings nature. The Light doesn't want you to burn the infidels - that's the will of something else. The Light is just a thing that usually makes you feed all warm and good inside.

So, be you a Blackrock'ish, Shadowmoon or Bleeding Hollow, it doesn't matter: You united with all the Clans, and you became a lvl 20 Priest before learning more complicated spells from Azerothian teachers.

Now go forth. Bring back the balance. Purge the corruption. Kill the alien. And, hopefully, someday you'll be powerful enough to free the Green Orcs from their tainted blood that plague generations of Orcs in Durotar.

[Syegfryed]

suppose so. But how then would the concept of holy work for an orc priest then? Because short of just saying 'they wouldn't have holy magic', which is just dismissing 2 specs to the class itself for lore convenience, there has to be a better explanation for how they can summon holy magic.

It greatly depends

What is holy for you? what is holy for a troll or orc? the holy concept is not something only realted to light followers

for then holy is their ancestors, their spirits, their sacred grounds, their faith.

Different viewpoints, different cultures, religions and ideologies can access the same kind of power and not be strict the same

[Trassk]

It greatly depends

What is holy for you? what is holy for a troll or orc? the holy concept is not something only realted to light followers

for then holy is their ancestors, their spirits, their sacred grounds, their faith.

Different viewpoints, different cultures, religions and ideologies can access the same kind of power and not be strict the same

yeah. the problem is, blizzards not done much to establish if it could work this way though. Could holy magic be accessed on the faith someone has for their ancestors, and if so, why didn't the orcs do it before. As it goes with the shadowmoon clan they only started to use shadow magic when the dark star fell to draenor, before that they were star gazers, so its not that deep in their culture.

The problem with blizzards contrived writing is they miss out important details that could just briefly explain how these things work, doesn't even have to be a thing in the game, could just be a mention in one of their warchief graphic novels or guides, like how it was discovered by brann that orcs were distant ancestors to the Gronn.

[A Chozo]

yeah. the problem is, blizzards not done much to establish if it could work this way though. Could holy magic be accessed on the faith someone has for their ancestors, and if so, why didn't the orcs do it before. As it goes with the shadowmoon clan they only started to use shadow magic when the dark star fell to draenor, before that they were star gazers, so its not that deep in their culture.

The problem with blizzards contrived writing is they miss out important details that could just briefly explain how these things work, doesn't even have to be a thing in the game, could just be a mention in one of their warchief graphic novels or guides, like how it was discovered by brann that orcs were distant ancestors to the Gronn.

It never needed mentioning. Still doesn't need further explanation since Holy and Shadow magic usage in WoW are already stabilished.

We even have examples of Fel Orcs using Holy Spells, or Blackrocks doing that too. Similar to Zabra Hexx learning Holy sorcery: You read a book, or someone teach you. You just need Faith or Willpower.

Ya guys need to disassociate the Priest Profession from the Priest WoW Class. Priests are more similar to mages using Holy/Shadow than anything else. You train to use those spells - in-game, and in the lore. Like a Warrior training their techniques.

[Trassk]

I actually think I found something, bearing in mind this is for rp purposes, that fits in with what I was looking for.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Nethermancer

A nethermancer is likely a mage who focuses on magic from other worlds, or the nether itself.

and when you follow the link to the nether itself, you find:

The Twisting Nether is an astral dimension that lies in parallel with the Great Dark Beyond. The forces of Light and Void bleed together at the boundaries of the Twisting Nether, engulfing this realm in perpetual strife.

this works out pretty well, and i think would suit a character who can use holy and void magics without being bound to either.