How to get rid of Voidform?

[Xanesh]

Well tbh, Shadow Word: Void should simply be the transformation of Mind Blast when we're in Voidform.
The simple fact the Voidform is nearly 100% flavor with no utility and no spell changing is boring. The only Void spell we "gain" is Void Bolt, and it's actually Void Eruption transforming to a boring single bolt.
When in Voidform, every spell should change to an enhanced one. DoTs, Dispersion (an improved one not silencing you, at least), Mind Blast (SWV), Mind Flay (Void Torrent or Void Ray talent from Legion), Mind Sear... Everything. As if, you know, we actually became more powerful.

I've wanted this too, makes sense if we are in a void form. I think they were really lazy by just giving us void bolt in it.

[Nixl]

I only started to play shadow 2 weeks ago, but I love how it currently plays out (This coming from not experiencing previous incarnations.) However, I do agree that voidform gets problematic the more you min max.

It'll be interesting to see what route they go. Improve on current design, introduce completely new options, change how void form functions. or just tuning I doubt they're planning on discarding the insanity mechanic but we will see on tuesday potentially.

[Thelyron]

I have absolutely no words to describe how much i disagree with you. Your post basically boils down to "remove everything that makes shadow actually fun". The only changes needed are that void bolt refreshes dot duration once more, and numbers tuning. Nothing more.

[Spicymemer]

People want to remove or completely change voidform mechanics and i understand why, it has such a bad taste in the mouth because of its erratic potential and now seemingly useless gate keeping.

While some people prefer shadow/vampiric focused spriest, void/shadow spriest is here to stay for now.

Voidform isnt a terrible thing, its been utterly violated by blizzard, but the basic 3 principles should guide shadows playstyle;
Voidform should bring increased intensity,
Uptime/Duration/Optimisation is rewarding,
Give structure to our spellcasting/rotation/priority,

The truest intended version of Shadow was Mid-Late NH era, S2M nor 60 second rotations were a gimmick, raid dps (for the most part) was viable with a few niches (Augar, Tich, Botanist, Elisande) and a rotation (with tier 19 in mind) was interactive, not hugely punishing but also rewarding.

Shadow had huge issues at this point anyway because affliction came to the table and offered far more utility, while shadow still had fundamental issues.

1. Shit mobility
2. Shit utility
3. Shit burst
4. Shit target swap
5. Shit AoE

TLDR; A well designed Void Form would be completely okay, blizzard just dont respect the spec.

[sd2400533]

I actually like Shadow Priests and Void Form overall.

3. Dots and Mindflay
I feel like the Dots aren't exactly all that exciting nor meaningful designs for this spec.

This. I like Void form too, I got into Shadow because of it. However, I totally agree that DoTs are not for Shadow. We already have Affliction which is a DoT spec that can always do better than Shadow, besides given the spec fantasy currently for Shadow is void theme, its a lot more fitting to use the old god powered spells, such as summon tentacles, big eyes, void creatures, etc.

I would love to see Shadow become a range spell version of a fury warrior. You gain a lot of haste as you play, and you need to hit buttons fast because you are getting crazier and more fanatic as void energy taking over your body.

[Nemui]

This. I like Void form too, I got into Shadow because of it. However, I totally agree that DoTs are not for Shadow. We already have Affliction which is a DoT spec that can always do better than Shadow, besides given the spec fantasy currently for Shadow is void theme, its a lot more fitting to use the old god powered spells, such as summon tentacles, big eyes, void creatures, etc.

Spriest has always been a dot spec though.

Current Spriest spec has the same problem that Warlock demonology had, in that it got the Demon Hunter demon form, which had little to do with Warlock demonology in the first place. Although Spriest's problem is that that they released a whole lot of lore tying shadow to the void, and thus they'd have a hard time undoing that and do like they did with demonology; take a step back and see what the spec was supposed to be in the first place. And making room for Demon Hunters of course. But the spec was better for it.

[wholol]

Warlocks share similar problems to spriests atm, though the other specs' flaws are overshadowed by affliction's success
right now ( even affliction's own flaws).

A lot of warlock veterans wish for older versions of each spec and I'm sure this problem doesn't simply stop with locks,
class design in general is abysmally poor ( and has been getting worse with every passing expansion).

I'm not sure if their goal to reduce costs shifted their resources towards better graphical quality at the cost of quality
towards class design.

[Spicymemer]

Some people seem to forget that shadow was the better dot spec until MoP. Mostly even during cata.

[Keltas]

Easy solution I've thought about a lot lately is pretty simple.

Remove void form.
Keep insanity, everything generates it, including DoT ticks, and you passively gain 5~ a second in combat (scaling with haste?).
Make void bolt baseline, no cooldown, costs some insanity. Adds 3+ seconds to dots on all targets. Every secondary target with SWP takes a 30% damage void bolt.
If you cap insanity, you go back to 0 and generate none for 3 seconds. Possibly locked out of shadow for 1-3 seconds too.


Now you still get the "going insane" fantasy they want, you get a way to pump damage into a priority target, and you get some pretty good AoE/cleave if you can manage a bunch of dots and dumping void bolts.


Probably a shit idea, but meh. I enjoy shadow the way it is, and the way it was. So I'll probably enjoy whatever they do to it.

[sd2400533]

Spriest has always been a dot spec though.

Although Spriest's problem is that that they released a whole lot of lore tying shadow to the void, and thus they'd have a hard time undoing that and do like they did with demonology

Same can be said about: Survial was about Dots, Enhancement was about Windfury extra hits, Assassination was all about bleed, Combat was all about weapons, etc.
The point is, they all got changed/reworked, WHY NOT Shadow??

Just make Shadow a fast pace spell caster like a fury warrior's playstyle, it resonates perfectly with the "going crazy" void theme. They should combine DoTs within direct damaging spells, such as mind blast apply pain etc.

[Crazywheels]

First thing i want to say is please God if we go back to devouring plague shadow orbs playstlye make them more like destruction lock embers so we don't get wasted procs when min maxing. Personally this update what I want since it will be fairly limited (I guess that is) I hope the bring VF back to 2% a stack, increase VB damage slightly and 5 second refresh instead of 3 second (seriously fuck whoever made that change). I like that we actually have some aoe options now but it would be nice to have possibly 5% more baseline haste. In the future however I do think a shadow orb kit will be much better. Much more control over on demand burst for target swapping and handling adds back then. Something for now though also would be StM to be a CD let's say for example a 5 min CD where we have no drain on insanity for 20 seconds and then the good players make the CD better but not silly like in legion.

Edit: Also I really believe with the lack of baseline ape shadow crash and SW:V should be baseline with talents that alter their power and or spell interactions

[Priestiality]

Snip

So basically you want to remove a bunch of stuff, buff the crumbs we have left, then add a bunch of extremely broken stuff on top of it.

5% Haste buff passive with a 15% buff on top of the permanent 5%? Do you even play this game? Do you have any idea how obscenely overpowered that is? There would literally never be a reason to bring any other caster.

[WhiteUsedSocks]

-Cascade (talent)
-Devouring Plague
-Spectral guise (talent?)
-Mind Spike
-Shadow word: death (baseline)
-Twist of fate (baseline)
-Dark archangel (the new voidform, more control)
-Fear Ward
-Void Shift
-huge buff to Vampiric Embrace
-give us hymn of hope
-tentacles roots!
-orbs instead of insanity

-Remove Voidform

AOE TALENT should be like this - Cascade / Mind Sear (buffed, because its shit right now) / Shadow Crash 2-3x charges

[Jedimindtrx]

The OP is "How to get rid of VF" but the thread's concern is "How to fix VF" which is really "How to fix fluidity". I can side both ways fix VF or rid of VF, either works.

Personally, I think VF should be a glyph. VF disappearing is not going to happen since Blizzard put manpower and man hours into making new animations so I accept that, BUT....

I'll remain OnT: "HOW TO GET RID OF VOIDFORM".
I've always thought Void magic and Shadow magic draw from different schools of magic. Void draws from that nether and shadow draws from the dark. Which is why VF exist when while there is Shadowform. I'm very shaky and ill advised on lore. Correct me if I'm wrong, even if I'm wrong, why not? If locked out of your shadow school, you still can cast from your void and discipline schools. I think that makes sense. Back OnT...

How to rid of VF WHILE keeping our current BFA strength(s) while fixing weaknesses
PROS
+ AOE burst
+ B-tier Cleave
NEGS
- Fluidity known as the cliche of being clunky (misaligned cds, base haste, VF management)
- Overstated utility. Priests bring Fort, MD, offensive dispel, shacklol, but specifically SP brings ???. A weak VEmbrace. Sanlayn nerfed hard in Alpha/Beta.
- Mobility/Survivability

AOE BURST
Keep Void Eruptionbut reworked:
2 charges, 20 sec recharge, 60 resource, instant cast and tooltip# same as live.
Think about it! At 60 resource, VEruption. You keep a charge in the "bank", 2nd charge acts the same DAscension, save it for add spawns or double dip on the charge for burst to keep current SP PVP burst. Current live VF lasts for 25-30s, so the recharge time is basically the same.

FLUIDITY
Without VoidBolt we are missing something to press and we’re missing an instant GCD where we can move in between using the next spel. Some things need to change or be added to the gameplay
(1) Mindflay is castable while moving. This can be baseline, talented, whatever. This would promote fullcasted Mindflays.
(2) Mindspike is back (as you mentioned) % chance procs Instant MSpikes on resource gained. Proc based similar to that of Frost Mages Flurry or Demolock’s Demonfire. Point is to never cast it, but use it on instant cast proc. Reworked, no longer removes instead. Does +dmg when target inflicted by VT+SWP.
(3) Voidbolt. I get it’s purpose. +DOT duration. Instant global to move. Downside is the CD alignment with MB. Make it a long casted spell like Pyroblast. Fully casted Mindflays or Mindflay ticks gives stacks to make it instant. The animation would need to be reworked as it looks like I'm throwing purple confetti at you. +6 sec for DOT duration since you're casting it less, but now it's a higher priority. MB increases DOT duration +3 secs.
(4) Bigboy DOT Devouring Plague. The Big DOT with Big Leech. 60-100 resource, instant cast. DP should strike fear in an opponent PVP wise like an incoming Glacial Spike or buffed Chaos Bolt. PVE wise it it's what you leave on a Main Target, Kill Target, or for added "burst" to actually put dmg on spawning mobs. Multiple can be used. It would be resource spender.

The fluidity is in the core MB, SWP, VT. Mflay filler, with Void Eruption for AOE or DP for ST dmg when you have enough resource. VB and MSpike for instant cast mobility. SWD for execution. Various CDs listed below for fun.

Everything below are just additionals. Would be nice, I'N NOT ASKING FOR EVERYTHING. Throwing ideas around centered around a non VF SP. Wrote additional comments for explanation of synergy and coolness.

I really did like the Execution niche SP had but I do not mind going for a more upfront dmg style.

MAJOR COOLDOWN IDEAS
+Voidform - talent choice, replaces DArchangel, (really just a filler, trying to rid of it right? idc what it does)
+Dark Archangel - baseline, DA cosmetic wings, Increase Haste + Shadow/Void dmg by X% for Xsecs.
+Dark Archon - talent choice, replaces Dark ArchAngel, basically you look like a Shadow-Apotheosis. Damn that's cool. Think of it like Boomkin Incarn vs Armored Boomkin Incarn.
+Shadow Word: Suffering - talent choice. 2-3 min CD. All targets 10 yrds of target affected with SWP experience Suffering. Dmg done equal to the entire duration left of SWP. Think of it like like how Unholy pops VirulentPlagues, except it's a BIG CD, remaining DOT duration is done instantly. All SWPs are removed.

MINOR CDs + TALENTS IDEAS
+ Summon Shadowfiend - baseline 1min CD. Nothing justifies it’s 3min CD right now.
+ Summon Void Revenant - replaces SFiend, 3min CD, Summon both Nhalathoth (melee) and Nhalalish (caster)
+ Summon Voidfiends- your fully channel MFlays have a X% chance to summon MBender or MTentacle. Similar to Demonology passive.


AOE & CLEAVE IDEAS
+ Orb of Insanity - talent choice. Anyone remember this Artifact talent? Orb of pew pew that became invisible because people were annoyed of the pew pew noises. Anyway just change the sound. Orb shoots a voidbolts at targets affected by VT/SWP every Xsecs.
+Psychic Link - talent choice. Make it a PVE talent choice. MB hits all targets with VT for X% dmg.
+Dark Void - talent choice. Same application as live but add VT. This solves ramp up.
+Void Bomb - talent choice. Place a Void Bomb that pulse void dmg at target location.
+ Auspicious Spirits. SWP AND VT crits summon an Shadowy Apparition (Legion Artifact talent). Apparitions now explode for XX% of spellpower.

ADDED UTILITY
+ Black/Void Hole - talent choice. Gorefiend Grasp with Black Hole animation. Summon a Black Hole, after 2s, all enemies within X yds are pulled to the center. This CC would give SP something unique to bring to raid and m+ that their healing brethren cannot.
+ Vampiric Embrace - baseline, on use. Mana and Leech regen by X% of ST dmg done split amongst group/raid for X secs. (basically buff live version)

SURVIVABILITY
+ Vampiric Embrace/Sanlayn - baseline spec passive. X% of ST dmg done split amongst group/raid.
+ Dispersion - 90% dmg redux. PVP version should heal you during Dispersion
+ Spectral Guise. Shadow Clone jutsu, hmm shadow clones for a shadow priest, seems fitting.
+ Return to the Void: Basically the Void Elf Racial but instead of a skill shot teleport. You pick the location similar to a lock gate. A void portal opens. You have a choice after 5 secs to teleport to it, otherwise the portal disappears.
+ Become Shadow - You turn in a shadow for 1-2 seconds. Like a black circle on ground, un-targetable, but Movement Speed increased by XX%
+ Void Recall - Disappear into the void. Go stealth/invis for 2-5secs

I have ideas to fix current VF, but I think there's another thread on that.

[Deleted]

You won't get rid of voidform this expansion, the best you can hope for is in 9.0 we would see a complete rework that removed it, but i doubt they will go back on it now and probably force it for another expansion or two.

[Jervaise]

I think they should add a new form: Darker Voider Shadowy Form.

Here is how it goes,

Shadow Form: 10% Increased Damage 10% Reduced Physical Damage Taken

Use Void Eruption at 60 Insanity and do area damage, switch to Void Form

Void Form: 10% Increased Damage (Doesn't Stack with Shadow Form. You thought it did? No no, it doesn't.)

Use Darkerer Voider Eruptioner (10 second cast, 9 second talented) at 160 Insanity and do area healing (cause hybrid class), switch to Darker Voider Shadowy Form

Darker Voider Shadowy Form: 5% Increased Damage 10% Increased Physical Damage Taken (cause lore)

Now your Void Bolt is replaced by Void Bolt 2. Same damage, however its cooldown is locked to mind blast, comes off CD always at the same time, clearing all the confusion.

[Deleted]

Void form needs to go. We are not void priests, but shadow priests.
Bring back shadow orbs and let us consume them for a new impactful shadow spell (Something like void bolt reworked into a shadow bolt with a visual that doesn't suck).

[Ophenia]

So basically you want to remove a bunch of stuff, buff the crumbs we have left, then add a bunch of extremely broken stuff on top of it.

5% Haste buff passive with a 15% buff on top of the permanent 5%? Do you even play this game? Do you have any idea how obscenely overpowered that is? There would literally never be a reason to bring any other caster.

Are you serious ?

Shadow Priest with 40% haste baseline and 50 stacks of Voidform (so nearby 100% haste) was dealing approximately the same amount of damage as all the other specs in the end of legion, and you think that with 20% haste we would be insanely broken ?

Damn son...

[Priestiality]

Are you serious ?

Shadow Priest with 40% haste baseline and 50 stacks of Voidform (so nearby 100% haste) was dealing approximately the same amount of damage as all the other specs in the end of legion, and you think that with 20% haste we would be insanely broken ?

Damn son...

No, I'm saying it would be broken if added on top of buffing damage without the void abilities to what we do with them. Maybe re-read my post before you comment.

[Pratt]

I just want it gone and I don't really care how it's done. After playing shadow since vanilla, voidform and surrender made me quit.