Lorewise, why are Pandas still with the Horde?

[Toppy]

Because they're hoping you forgot pandas exist, plus they ran out of shitty kung fu jokes. Before anyone starts bitching at me, I remind you that Blizz put in direct references and jokes, rather than follow their own pandaren writing.

You mean the same sort that could be found for other races?

If anything Pandaren were very short in terms of jokes.

[Feanoro]

You mean the same sort that could be found for other races?

Good Lord, Hordies are touchy, it reminds me of Pesto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EuCOhT0Bg8

No, all I mean is that people usually bitch if you say "kung fu" in relation to the pandas, when Blizz specifically put in jokes about that.

[Deleted]

they dont know how to kick them out.

[Toppy]

Good Lord, Hordies are touchy, it reminds me of Pesto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EuCOhT0Bg8

No, all I mean is that people usually bitch if you say "kung fu" in relation to the pandas, when Blizz specifically put in jokes about that.

About Kung Fu what? Kung Fu panda? Because they dont reference that at all. Kung Fu movies? Because there are actually incredibly few references to that as well, and I say that as a major kung fu movie buff.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

They had weeks to evacuate the city and i guess they went with the Aysa philosophy where if you stick your head in the sand long enough a solution will miraculously appear!!

According to the official book, they began evacuations immediately and were still far from having all the civilians out. Blizz may not have explained this well in game, but this is the cannon - that evacuations were done as well as possible but getting all the civilians out was impossible.

[Aleksej89]

Creating undead, spreading plague, destroying sacred natural places, slaughtering civilians and consorting with voodoo trolls is exactly what the pandaren like.

Also lore is dead xD

[Malikath]

please show where the whole bit is in the name of death.

what loa did zul'jin deal with?

[mickybrighteyes]

what loa did zul'jin deal with?

zul'jin was brought up and killed multiple years before the Huo'jin and Tushui ever heard about the alliance or horde.

Vol'jin's following of Bwonsamdi was a minor thing and he was never leading campaigns with the intent to kill everything.

My statement was in regards to the war of thorns which the poster specifically referred to.

[rowaasr13]

aside from the tauren, can you pick groups that weren't all nearly wiped out by human forces acting in the name of the alliance?

That's quite reckless question for a hordie. You're just asking for it aren't you? How about "any group that bothers to talk instead of attacking Alliance first"?

Let's start with Horde newcomers:
Zandalari - Alliance cooperated with them in Classic and WotLK, without any tries to "wipe out" them, despite bad relations with other trolls.
Nightborne - Alliance pretty much saved them (yes, Horde was there too, but I won't add it everywhere, because we talking about Alliance)
Highmountain - same
Mag'har - Alliance cooperated with them at start of WoD campaign, didn't do any "wiping out" durning campaign, and left them alone after taking care of demons.

Now to the older races:
Goblins - Alliance works with goblins all the time. There's numerous goblin traders in Alliance territory. SI:7's second-in-command is a goblin. Actually there weren't "Horde-only" goblins until Cataclysm.
Blood Elves - Alliance didn't attack them even after their betrayal to the Horde, instead Velen re-ignited the Sunwell, pretty much saving entire BE race. Also remaining High Elves and exiled Voids are welcome.
Troll - Alliance directly responded to call for help of playable Troll faction leader. Twice. Because, as I've already said, Darkspears had enough sense to come and actually TALK about it.
Tauren - Alliance-affiliated (affiliated enough, acording to hordies to be "legitimate target") city provided shelter for Tauren and support in retaking their capital while they was wary(!) to ask their "home" faction for help. Wait, I just refreshed my memory with online docs. Scratch that "affiliated enough". Anduin himself helped with that too.
Undead - that's the single group I can't remember anything good about until BtS. However I don't think ANY race of both factions out there enjoys corpse raising and blight. I've just replayed SoO yesterday and Lor'themar says it out very clear.
Orcs - do you need a reminder that some members initially left Alliance EXACTLY because majority refused to "wipe out" them? After that, Alliance time after time shown that they're ready to work together or to simply forgive Orcs even without need to work with them as long as they stop behaving like bloodthirsty murderous backstabing scum they are? (End of SoO, for example.)

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To OP:

Because they're masochists? Setting what Horde did to Pandaria aside, Ji must have enjoyed being beaten half to death (and actually murdered if you wait near gates in SoO and watch the scene until candle actually burns out).

[cronotose]

It seems like every Horde decision as of late goes against all of what the Pandas stand for.

They are warmongering, killing civilians, allying with the Zandalari which were their mortal enemies in MoP and they didn't even bother to invite Firepaw to the party at the end of Legion.

So right now, what is keeping Firepaw from just straight up leaving the Horde and joining his loved one over at the Alliance? I'm guessing the only reason why Horde still has Pandas is because of game play reasons.

Blizzard, due to the negative reactions to pandas, pretend really hard that they don't exist.

[Deleted]

Lorewise, why is anyone still with the Horde? Even if I was an orc, I'd want to get out of there.

[cronotose]

That's quite reckless question for a hordie. You're just asking for it aren't you? How about "any group that bothers to talk instead of attacking Alliance first"?

Let's start with Horde newcomers:
Zandalari - Alliance cooperated with them in Classic and WotLK, without any tries to "wipe out" them, despite bad relations with other trolls.
Nightborne - Alliance pretty much saved them (yes, Horde was there too, but I won't add it everywhere, because we talking about Alliance)
Highmountain - same
Mag'har - Alliance cooperated with them at start of WoD campaign, didn't do any "wiping out" durning campaign, and left them alone after taking care of demons.

Now to the older races:
Goblins - Alliance works with goblins all the time. There's numerous goblin traders in Alliance territory. SI:7's second-in-command is a goblin. Actually there weren't "Horde-only" goblins until Cataclysm.
Blood Elves - Alliance didn't attack them even after their betrayal to the Horde, instead Velen re-ignited the Sunwell, pretty much saving entire BE race. Also remaining High Elves and exiled Voids are welcome.
Troll - Alliance directly responded to call for help of playable Troll faction leader. Twice. Because, as I've already said, Darkspears had enough sense to come and actually TALK about it.
Tauren - Alliance-affiliated (affiliated enough, acording to hordies to be "legitimate target") city provided shelter for Tauren and support in retaking their capital while they was wary(!) to ask their "home" faction for help. Wait, I just refreshed my memory with online docs. Scratch that "affiliated enough". Anduin himself helped with that too.
Undead - that's the single group I can't remember anything good about until BtS. However I don't think ANY race of both factions out there enjoys corpse raising and blight. I've just replayed SoO yesterday and Lor'themar says it out very clear.
Orcs - do you need a reminder that some members initially left Alliance EXACTLY because majority refused to "wipe out" them? After that, Alliance time after time shown that they're ready to work together or to simply forgive Orcs even without need to work with them as long as they stop behaving like bloodthirsty murderous backstabing scum they are? (End of SoO, for example.)

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To OP:

Because they're masochists? Setting what Horde did to Pandaria aside, Ji must have enjoyed being beaten half to death (and actually murdered if you wait near gates in SoO and watch the scene until candle actually burns out).

To be fair, Goblins fought against the Alliance in the Second War, but then that was the Alliance lead by Lordaeron, not Stormwind, so if anything they'd have a grudge against the Forsaken.

[Selastan]

Pandaren are all about individuality and freedom, something the Horde has as a founding principle, as opposed to the Alliance's value in unity and conformity. The Horde's pandaren are also specifically followers of the houjin philosophy, which believes in quick, decisive action. The ends always justify the means and inaction in the face of adversity is the greatest injustice. Take the Burning of Teldrassil, for instance. If the Horde never acted and was instead assaulted by the Alliance first, THEN the Houjin pandaren would find conflict with the Horde, because the Horde would have allowed the Alliance to build up Azerite and launch the attack first, costing too many Horde lives.

[rowaasr13]

First off the Horde Pandaren ARE NOT FROM FUCKING PANDARIA THEY ARE FROM THE WANDERING ISLE!!!

Secondly the Houjin philosophy is that you dont let fate decide your actions you go out and act which is what the Horde is doing they aint waiting for the Alliance to act first so its well in there philosophy to believe in a first strike philosophy.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Huojin_Pandaren

The Huojin firmly believe injustice must be met with a swift and decisive response, though this response should be flexible and calculated for the situation at hand; to the Huojin, the end will always ultimately justify the means.

I think that sums it quite well dont you think?

No. I don't see Huojin meeting Horde's injustice at all. Not with swift response, not with slow, not with any response.

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To be fair, Goblins fought against the Alliance in the Second War, but then that was the Alliance lead by Lordaeron, not Stormwind, so if anything they'd have a grudge against the Forsaken.

Those are canonically "mercenaries", not a race as a whole.

[Deleted]

We seen nothing about the pandaren race anymore after MoP.
But i guess alot of pandaren are in the Horde because Garrosh freed pandaria from the sha by removing the old gods heart.

Also to bent the knee to a 17 year old boy is not rly appealing to anybody so i guess they rather pick Horde and freedom over a high king that tells you what to do all the time.

[cronotose]

Those are canonically "mercenaries", not a race as a whole.

Nobody said "race as a whole". If we played the "race as a whole" game, the argument has no end, as in order to reuse art assets there will always be a forever splintering of different groups. I was giving a reason why the Goblins *might* have some issue with the Alliance that wasn't accounted for in your post. I didn't say I agreed with it. Just covering the bases.

In general, I find most of the Horde's faction writing incomprehensible. The Blood Elves bear a grudge because of a dead racist commander......from Lordaeron.....when they're allied right now with the Forsaken. Never mind that the Orcs themselves were enslaved again by Lordaeron.......so again, why does humanity in general bear this "guilt", but the literal people who did it can be your friends? Shoot, how on earth can you even have the Zandalari allied with not one but two races of elves?

[Beet]

Shhh Op. We pretend they don’t exist. That’s how come Firepaw is fine with everything.

[Kallisto]

Blood Elves - Alliance didn't attack them even after their betrayal to the Horde, instead Velen re-ignited the Sunwell, pretty much saving entire BE race. Also remaining High Elves and exiled Voids are welcome.

More like they joined the horde after constant betrayal by the alliance. First Garithos and then the fake ambassador sabotaging defense sanctums with invading Night elves. Sanctums that are required in defense against the scourge.

[mickybrighteyes]

That's quite reckless question for a hordie. You're just asking for it aren't you? How about "any group that bothers to talk instead of attacking Alliance first"?

Let's start with Horde newcomers:
Zandalari - Alliance cooperated with them in Classic and WotLK, without any tries to "wipe out" them, despite bad relations with other trolls.
Nightborne - Alliance pretty much saved them (yes, Horde was there too, but I won't add it everywhere, because we talking about Alliance)
Highmountain - same
Mag'har - Alliance cooperated with them at start of WoD campaign, didn't do any "wiping out" durning campaign, and left them alone after taking care of demons.

yes the alliance has done a good job not going on genocidal rampages post vanilla. hopefully they can maintain that streak. well the streak has been marred by Umbriss and Genn but most people don't seem to count them anyways.

Now to the older races:
Goblins - Alliance works with goblins all the time. There's numerous goblin traders in Alliance territory. SI:7's second-in-command is a goblin. Actually there weren't "Horde-only" goblins until Cataclysm.

nice, dance around the fact that all the bilgewater cartel was targetted for destruction by alliance naval forces. Note that the bilgewater are not all goblins, but the cartal that wound up in the horde was fighting of alliance military trying to ensure there were no witnesses

Blood Elves - Alliance didn't attack them even after their betrayal to the Horde, instead Velen re-ignited the Sunwell, pretty much saving entire BE race. Also remaining High Elves and exiled Voids are welcome.

alliance took the queldorei high command, locked them all up for bogus crimes and sentenced them to death... this is what spawned the blood elves. Now later on some elves are then targetted by members of the alliance in a purge conducted by the incredibly wishy washy Jaina as she teeteered between lawful stupid and chaotic grey. also do remember that the night elves weren't entirely diplomatic in their attempts to disable the rune wards safeguarding quel'thalas.

Troll - Alliance directly responded to call for help of playable Troll faction leader. Twice. Because, as I've already said, Darkspears had enough sense to come and actually TALK about it.

cool, doesn't exactly make up for the time the grand admiral decided to kill off any darkspear he set eyes on (a damn shame they didn't bring up THIS part when talking about the daughter of the dea)

Tauren - Alliance-affiliated (affiliated enough, acording to hordies to be "legitimate target") city provided shelter for Tauren and support in retaking their capital while they was wary(!) to ask their "home" faction for help. Wait, I just refreshed my memory with online docs. Scratch that "affiliated enough". Anduin himself helped with that too.

The main threat in the war at teh time was orgrimmar. Stormwind was taking action to hinder Garrosh's plans in Ashenvale (yea that makes a lot of sense when that's the story they're going with) At the time the tauren were mostly just trading water cause Garry can't keep his own supply clean and Stormwind rushes in to Leeroy Mulgore cause that makes so much sense

Undead - that's the single group I can't remember anything good about until BtS. However I don't think ANY race of both factions out there enjoys corpse raising and blight. I've just replayed SoO yesterday and Lor'themar says it out very clear.

the original story of the forsaken was that no one wanted them around, almost eveyrone saw them as a curse to be cleansed (usually by fire). Even when they went LOOKING for allies, they were killed on sight because their would be contacts assumed they were mindless scourge.

Honestlym they were never really shown in a 'good' light. Apathetic, angry, tired... more or less is the range of emotions or hellbent on vengeance.

Orcs - do you need a reminder that some members initially left Alliance EXACTLY because majority refused to "wipe out" them? After that, Alliance time after time shown that they're ready to work together or to simply forgive Orcs even without need to work with them as long as they stop behaving like bloodthirsty murderous backstabing scum they are? (End of SoO, for example.)

more like a large majority didn't think of them as anything. people were all on board to kill them and others were more worried about their current allies not being as friendly as they thought (see: Genn and how he wanted alterac or hell the whole Prestor thing)


Fact is that of the cast of horde members, baring the MOST recent additions (i.e. the BFA ones or late legion depending on how you classify allied races), were all subject to the worst aspects of the alliance. Orcs locked up in camps for existing. Trolls hunted because they existed. Goblins put on a hit list for possibly being aware of an event taking place. Elves put in their place because some big wig had it in for them. Undead because, hey, it's just what they are.

you can say it's a reckless question... but facts are, the origin of the horde race had them all in direct conflict with some one waiving blue colors and golden lions. The only exception being those that formed and flourished without ever meeting said blue banners and golden lions.


now lets watch the "days since genocidal rampage" ticker Stormwind has out of Anduin's field of view reset because Umbriss did just go on a wanton killing spree among a civilian populace because he didn't like the astroturf.

[Calfredd]

Maybe the pandaren are wise enough to know the value of the horde is more then what its current psychotic leader and his mindless followers represent

You kind of forgot the fact that Ji Firepaw and a few others were about to be executed for information under Garrosh's orders during Siege of Orgrimmar. So 2-for-2 for psychotic leaders.