Raider IO.. Love it/Hate it?

[Chingylol]

Personally I like it since it shows instantly what mythics someone has done if you're pugging. So you can pick someone thats more experienced. Alot of people seem to really hate it thouhg since it's like gearscore addon 2.0.

[Taenaeris]

I believe there have been like a million threads on this topic before ...

While it may not absolutely reflect somebody's personal skill very well, it still gives you quite a decent hint of who has already done a certain dungeon on a certain level and how often they've done it. And those who hate it are essentially those with shitty scores who're just looking to get some easy loot.

[arboachg]

I believe there have been like a million threads on this topic before ...

While it may not absolutely reflect somebody's personal skill very well, it still gives you quite a decent hint of who has already done a certain dungeon on a certain level and how often they've done it. And those who hate it are essentially those with shitty scores who're just looking to get some easy loot.

Or those with shitty scores that can't get into groups, whether due to the self-fulfilling prophecy or not.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I love it and somethign else would just take it's place.

[Very Tired]

Improves your odds are finding better pug members. I've found the people who hate it don't really want to put in the effort to grind and learn dungeons. More or less just expect to be carried through high level mythics.

[Deleted]

As long as it's used for high keys, it's a great tool. BUT knowing the WoW community, it might start being used for +3s too...

[Otimus]

As long as it's used for high keys, it's a great tool. BUT knowing the WoW community, it might start being used for +3s too...

Given enough tools to exclude people, people in WoW would want to exclude people from normal dungeons if they had an efficient enough way/reason to.

[Goldielocks]

The only justified dislike of the system would be for the people who want to learn but can't because even the lowest keys require a good enough score. It's like how a job application requires years of experience but you can't get that experience without that specific job.

[Jngizu]

I believe there have been like a million threads on this topic before ...

While it may not absolutely reflect somebody's personal skill very well, it still gives you quite a decent hint of who has already done a certain dungeon on a certain level and how often they've done it. And those who hate it are essentially those with shitty scores who're just looking to get some easy loot.

It's actually terrible, because the addon isn't consistent. My in-game score is different than my score on the website for example. Not to mention, it only counts the dungeons that appear in the leaderboard. So if you're on a high pop server and tend to do your keys later on in the week, you end up with a score that doesn't reflect your skill level at all.

I'm sure it makes tracking for them easier, but it means you can't rely on the addon for people with a lower score. I think it would be a great addon if it scanned your character in-game. But I guess it would take more resources and scores might be faked (no idea)?

Personally I like it since it shows instantly what mythics someone has done if you're pugging. So you can pick someone thats more experienced. Alot of people seem to really hate it thouhg since it's like gearscore addon 2.0.

Except that as I explained above, it doesn't really. At least for people on high-pop servers.

[IAmJakub]

I used to do pretty high keys in Legion, when BFA came I had a son and I have not been on for a single of the +10s that guild has done and trying to pug I literally cannot get an invite into anything pass +7 because of raider IO, never mind I got the ilvl and raid progression to back it up. Over the past two weeks I found it impossible to simply get the score up by myself through pugging, so there is the flip side of this thing.

[MrExcelion]

Like another poster said, something else would take its place. If you're a DPS apping to a key, you're probably going to have a bad time since I've commonly seen 30-50 apps for a single DPS spot. Group organizers will always look for metrics to filter

To anyone that pugs, you have to accept the entire pugging experience for what it is. If the pug M+ experience isn't for you, then don't do it. Don't feel forced. That's all the advice I can really offer. That's where I'm currently at with the system in BFA. I'll do a couple keys a week max, but won't be devoting a whole lot of time into it. Pugging and apping to keys with all the declines can take far more time than what I can allot. I'm "behind the curve" this xpac, like the poster above me, and won't have the time to maintain score. And I think that's fine. I'll stick to primarily mythic raiding and get geared that way.

[Taenaeris]

It's actually terrible, because the addon isn't consistent. My in-game score is different than my score on the website for example. Not to mention, it only counts the dungeons that appear in the leaderboard. So if you're on a high pop server and tend to do your keys later on in the week, you end up with a score that doesn't reflect your skill level at all.

I'm sure it makes tracking for them easier, but it means you can't rely on the addon for people with a lower score. I think it would be a great addon if it scanned your character in-game. But I guess it would take more resources and scores might be faked (no idea)?

Except that as I explained above, it doesn't really. At least for people on high-pop servers.

The in-game addon is only updated once a day, though you can update it more frequently when using the desktop app. And with the mass lookup button that they added to the group finder, using the web sites isn't actually all that bad.

About high pop servers, I played on both Thrall and Zul'jin in Legion - and while this was actually a problem prior to the Antorus release on Zul'jin, I've never really had any problems with runs not counting after Blizzard increased the size of their leaderboard. This is obviously a Blizzard API problem and not something the website / addon could do anything about.

And it can also be completely circumvented by inviting somebody from a low-pop realm into your group.

I used to do pretty high keys in Legion, when BFA came I had a son and I have not been on for a single of the +10s that guild has done and trying to pug I literally cannot get an invite into anything pass +7 because of raider IO, never mind I got the ilvl and raid progression to back it up. Over the past two weeks I found it impossible to simply get the score up by myself through pugging, so there is the flip side of this thing.

The only thing you can "back up" is that you have a very fundamental misunderstanding about M+'s and therefore probably shouldn't be invited into any of them. You can be ilvl 370 and link me both Cutting Edge Argus and AOTC Gul'dan and I will still not invite you into any of my runs if you have not at least completed that dungeon on a reasonable level before.

This is not about how well you can play your class or how much dps you're doing - if you don't know the dungeon, then you're just going to slow everybody down. Your raid progression or fantastic dps or whatever is not going to put you more than 10%-15% above everybody else - a single wipe can easily negate all of that. You need to know which path to take in a dungeon, which trash can be skipped, which packs the tanks is going to pull, what needs interrupting, etc. - and several bosses have mechanics that need to be dealt with.

Why exactly should you get invited into even a +7 when there are plenty of others who have spent considerable time running these over and over again and thus have far more experience?

[Cosmic Janitor]

I only play with guildies and FL anyway, but overall I think it's another negative example about missing the point in social features of the game and frankly another case of blizzrad exposing too much information about characters via armory and their APIs than they should.

[jasoncb]

I mean you can understand for higher level keys, but when people are asking for high item level AND high raider IO for a +3. That is fiking hilarious.

[schwarzkopf]

Or those with shitty scores that can't get into groups, whether due to the self-fulfilling prophecy or not.

The issue I had with it is that it gave you a generic score that was lower just because you'd not done ALL of the mythic runs.

Tanks and healers by definition will get into more runs than DPS (simple maths), so lowering the score of high performing DPS because they'd only completed 6 of the 10 available runs at the high level was what put me off.

They should change it to add instance specific scores (e.g. Waycrest Manor : 1200) rather than downgrading your whole score just because you'd not done MOTHERLOAD

[Darkke]

Like any tool before it it's fine as a tool, but some people using it are idiots. I'm already seeing groups ask 600+ score for +5 so I can only imagine what it must be to try to do Mythics as a new player and get denied because some website says you're not good enough.

[Deleted]

As someone who doesn't do very high keys, my personal skill level caps at about +9 or +10, I sit at around +- 600 in score, as a tank I am always invited, very rarely am I rejected.

I don't think it requires very much of you to get to where I am either, I am by far not the best at what I do.

That said, when I make my own groups I check your raider.io, obviously I want my runs and my keys to be as smooth, fast as possible.

[Taenaeris]

Like another poster said, something else would take its place. If you're a DPS apping to a key, you're probably going to have a bad time since I've commonly seen 30-50 apps for a single DPS spot. Group organizers will always look for metrics to filter

To anyone that pugs, you have to accept the entire pugging experience for what it is. If the pug M+ experience isn't for you, then don't do it. Don't feel forced. That's all the advice I can really offer. That's where I'm currently at with the system in BFA. I'll do a couple keys a week max, but won't be devoting a whole lot of time into it. Pugging and apping to keys with all the declines can take far more time than what I can allot. I'm "behind the curve" this xpac, like the poster above me, and won't have the time to maintain score. And I think that's fine. I'll stick to primarily mythic raiding and get geared that way.

Depending on score, it might make sense to just run your own keys. You will obviously spend quite some time looking for Tanks and Healers but at least it's in your own control whom you invite and run with. It also may make sense to downgrade your key a few levels if it's one of the highly unpopular ones that nobody wants to do and you're score on that particular key isn't very good. A good example for this week is something like let's say a +8 Shrine. You might want to downgrade that to a +5 as you're pretty much not going to find a group that's going to help you get your +8 upgraded if your score is too bad.

If you want to push your own key, then having a lower but very popular key will be far better than having a higher key that nobody wants to run. When listing your group, look for people who're willing to run the upgrades with you instead of quitting after the single run. For this purpose, having an easy key (that you know how to run) is important as your performance will greatly influence the other's willingness to run another instance with you.

PUG'ing is hard, very hard - and you will actually have a much harder time getting invited into a Heroic Raid with a decent raid leader than finding M+ groups.

Another important aspect of good PUG'ing is knowing which groups to join and which to avoid - this takes a lot of practice. In the concept on M+'s, if you're having problems getting invited into any +7's, then a group that instantly invites you into their +9 is probably a group that you should avoid as you're likely only going to waste time in it. Similarly, a group that instantly invites the first tank / healer that applies might have some difficulties in certain dungeons, especially on higher-level tyrannical keys. Whenever that happens, I generally whisper the group leader and tell him why I believe that waiting for another tank / healer would be better. This could, of course, get you kicked from that group - but getting kicked is still better than spending an hour in a dungeon that you cannot complete.

[IAmJakub]

The only thing you can "back up" is that you have a very fundamental misunderstanding about M+'s and therefore probably shouldn't be invited into any of them. You can be ilvl 370 and link me both Cutting Edge Argus and AOTC Gul'dan and I will still not invite you into any of my runs if you have not at least completed that dungeon on a reasonable level before.

This is not about how well you can play your class or how much dps you're doing - if you don't know the dungeon, then you're just going to slow everybody down. Your raid progression or fantastic dps or whatever is not going to put you more than 10%-15% above everybody else - a single wipe can easily negate all of that. You need to know which path to take in a dungeon, which trash can be skipped, which packs the tanks is going to pull, what needs interrupting, etc. - and several bosses have mechanics that need to be dealt with.

Why exactly should you get invited into even a +7 when there are plenty of others who have spent considerable time running these over and over again and thus have far more experience?

Oh please, did you just came up with that on the spot to justify this whole nonsense. You talk of knowing the dungeon like you did a degree on it, what exactly does make an experience on M0 or M+3 or M+6 not applicable to M+10. Last time I checked its nothing like raiding where new mechanics appear the higher the difficulty. I challenge you to make a character with no IO rating and WITHOUT help of your friends/guildies and only through M+ pugging do what you must to get into M+10, all I am saying a dps its pretty tough.

[Kalcifur]

You can't love or hate any systems like io, you can only learn to live with them. Because, much like Lich Kings, there must always be a gatekeeping tool. If not raider.io, something else must rise to take it's place, or the unwashed masses will rush across the forums like locusts, leaving naught but rage posts and shitstorms in their wake.