I actually really like BfA, since I moved to casual play

[Zorachus]

I have been playing WoW since launch, never a super [H]ardcore player, but I would say more than casual. I am a serious casual player, if there is such a thing. I play 6 nights week, after the kiddies go to bed, I play for 90 min or so, and then longer on a weekend night or two.

In Legion I ran current Normal raids, and partial heroic raids, when they were fresh and new. And I always ran M+, typically in the M+10 to +13 range.

I had 4 level 110 mains I played almost equally, in Legion, they were ok geared, like i955 - i960 or so towards the end.


Fast forward to BfA, I roll a fresh boosted level 110 Blood Elf Rogue, and I rush through to get to 120. Start doing end game, and gearing up in dungeon runs, etc...I get to i340 or so pretty quickly after launch, and start feeling sort of burned out, and frustrated with BfA, and then I start nitpicking the expansion and getting upset with it. After week 2, I was mad about BfA, and not a happy camper.

That has all changed now...

I said WTF, let's take a different approach here. I put the brakes on, and SLOWED down. I faction changed two of my mains from Horde to Alliance, to get a different perspective ( I have been with Horde since BC, haven't played an Alliance character since vanilla ) and I LOVE the change of scenery and different take on the Alliance side, and I really really like the Alliance zones in BfA for leveling, much more so than the Horde zones.

Right now my Night Elf Unholy DK is 118, and my Night Elf Fury Warrior is 111, and I am taking it slow, and enjoying each zone, and in no hurry to get to 120. And I also really really want a Void Elf bad, so I dusted off my Paladin, that was 10k / 21k revered with Arguss Reach in Legion, so I am playing my Paladin in Argus zones again each night, getting the rep up, to be able to unlock the Void Elf's. Right now I am 14k / 21k revered after 3 nights.

And this laid back relaxed play, and switch to Alliance has been a pleasant experience. I look at it this way, BfA is brand new, there's no rush to end game and to be i370 geared immediately, because why ? There will be a new patch with a new Raid and catch up gear, etc...happens each expansion, Blizzard makes catching up pretty easy and quick.

[arr0gance]

Congratulations, you enjoy an expansion that was designed with your exact demographic in mind.

[Zorachus]

I didn't really start Raiding in Legion until Nighthold, I was too busy leveling up several characters, and doing the Class Hall quests and Artifact stuff the first few months of Legion.

Seems to be the same now, I rather level up my alts and get them to 120 first, and then dungeon run to gear them up, etc...and then I will be ready for Raiding. So for me, looks like next Raid release will be perfect timing.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Congratulations, you enjoy an expansion that was designed with your exact demographic in mind.

If it was designed with our demographic in mind, open world would drop 300 gear with a chance to proc 340 kinda like the skill in the class hall. Chance for loot to upgrade to Rare or Epic.

[GenesisZero]

If it was designed with our demographic in mind, open world would drop 300 gear with a chance to proc 340 kinda like the skill in the class hall. Chance for loot to upgrade to Rare or Epic.

Not really understanding your point, your unhappy that WQ gear isn't LOWER than it currently is? Or that you should inherently have a chance to TF 40 ilvl for the thrill?

The guy isn't wrong though is he? Pretty demonstrable that the game has severely diminished complexity and depth in favour of broad appeal, arguably too broad depending on who you ask.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Not really understanding your point, your unhappy that WQ gear isn't LOWER than it currently is? Or that you should inherently have a chance to TF 40 ilvl for the thrill?

The guy isn't wrong though is he? Pretty demonstrable that the game has severely diminished complexity and depth in favour of broad appeal, arguably too broad depending on who you ask.

I can't speak for all casuals, only myself. So allow me to answer from my own perspective. As a casual, in Legion, there was a chance for ALL world gear to proc in both quality and iLvL. So when it comes to current WQs, instead of iLvL 320 or 340, I would love to have the chance to proc take that gear to either 345 or 360 based on whether is comes out Blue or Purple. As it stands, drops are just drops and the ilvls don't have a chance to change when dropping. Also as a casual, I would love to see all secondary trade skills and ALL reps to be account wide, so all my alts instantly match my main. As a casual, I would love to see the ilvl to enter dungeons and raids dropping by 20+ points making it easier to get into dungeons that should not be as overtuned as they are.

Again, this is my opinion, and mine alone. I've never petitioned to have any of these things, but I felt it was necessary to share my wishlist.

[Deleted]

I can't speak for all casuals, only myself. So allow me to answer from my own perspective. As a casual, in Legion, there was a chance for ALL world gear to proc in both quality and iLvL. So when it comes to current WQs, instead of iLvL 320 or 340, I would love to have the chance to proc take that gear to either 345 or 360 based on whether is comes out Blue or Purple. As it stands, drops are just drops and the ilvls don't have a chance to change when dropping. Also as a casual, I would love to see all secondary trade skills and ALL reps to be account wide, so all my alts instantly match my main. As a casual, I would love to see the ilvl to enter dungeons and raids dropping by 20+ points making it easier to get into dungeons that should not be as overtuned as they are.

Again, this is my opinion, and mine alone. I've never petitioned to have any of these things, but I felt it was necessary to share my wishlist.

I'm not sure I understand. Quest rewards from WQs can proc. I think Azerite armor can't, but normal items do?

[OMGTwitchTV]

I'm not sure I understand. Quest rewards from WQs can proc. I think Azerite armor can't, but normal items do?

They might proc 5 or 10 levels. I want them to proc 20-40 points. Like I said. Casual.

[Zorachus]

Congratulations, you enjoy an expansion that was designed with your exact demographic in mind.

Vanilla and BC were geared towards casuals #1, never the [H]ardcore. Most players just getting into WoW at launch were mostly casual players. I would say the game has been geared more towards the hard Raiders more recently, with Mythic Raids and M+, etc...

[GenesisZero]

I can't speak for all casuals, only myself. So allow me to answer from my own perspective. As a casual, in Legion, there was a chance for ALL world gear to proc in both quality and iLvL. So when it comes to current WQs, instead of iLvL 320 or 340, I would love to have the chance to proc take that gear to either 345 or 360 based on whether is comes out Blue or Purple. As it stands, drops are just drops and the ilvls don't have a chance to change when dropping. Also as a casual, I would love to see all secondary trade skills and ALL reps to be account wide, so all my alts instantly match my main. As a casual, I would love to see the ilvl to enter dungeons and raids dropping by 20+ points making it easier to get into dungeons that should not be as overtuned as they are.

Again, this is my opinion, and mine alone. I've never petitioned to have any of these things, but I felt it was necessary to share my wishlist.

Fair enough, I get where your coming from.
To share my own perspective I consider myself Semi-HC to HC, though currently not playing due to circumstances in life. To me this means optimizing my output down to the very little details as best as possible and prepping my character as well as possible for my considered endgame, Raiding.

Its OT so I will try to not go over it too much but I posit that the problems you find are as a result of the over generosity of gear in the game, and what gear SHOULD signify. Broadly speaking scarcity in terms of quantity doesn't exist, but the relative quality still does. It's plenty easy enough to hit 340 without touching M0 given WF, WQ, Crafting and luck, but the luck factor dictates the norms of the individual. Take a 355 TF Warfront piece for example, the relative difficulty doesn't match the reward, which makes the reward ill-fitting for the effort. You encourage the skipping of logical progression steps that gear SHOULD signify.

You clear Dungeons HCs, you get your 325, now your ready for M0s, then M+ then +5-6/Normal Raid then +10/Heroic Raids. That is a defined progression path for someone to follow and your skill and/or dedication to improvement dictate how far you get. It ultimately comes down to the actions of the player being misaligned with the requirements the goal in mind requires. It applies to anything else in life or any other game with a sense of progression. Now I am not trying to say stay in your lane or anything, just that goals have requirements and you need to decide what more important to you - Enjoying the present and where you are, or shooting higher and improving. Nothing is promised to you, what you make of the game is down to you, hence (whilst no longer as true as it use to be) Sandbox MMO.

All that being said, will people still over ask for things? Yeah, of-course. Just plain entitlement to earn with achieving, always been the case. It's simply been signal boosted due to the excessively blurred lines between the meaning of gear and its acquisition. Maybe that means very little to you, but gear has an intrinsic value as a tool to me, and misapplying it hurts getting people to use it correctly.

[IIamaKing]

Meh, Im pretty casual myself, and I dont see shit worth doing. Im going to grind the (essentially) same quests I've been grinding for 14 years? More 5 mans over and over for 2 years? Some LFR or pug raiding? There is nothing new or exciting to do, its all more of the same. THe stuff that is new is boring AF. I tend to unsub a couple months after the .1 patch then resub after the last patch. My sub lapses' today.

- - - Updated - - -

Vanilla and BC were geared towards casuals #1, never the [H]ardcore. Most players just getting into WoW at launch were mostly casual players. I would say the game has been geared more towards the hard Raiders more recently, with Mythic Raids and M+, etc...

I agree with this.

[Voidwielder]

Yeah I too ''downgraded'' to casual and I am liking BfA a lot. Still have to pug last three HC bosses, need to get my 10 done, level Horde just to experience that side of the fence.

Lots to do!

[RoKPaNda]

As a Mythic raider I'm enjoying it quite a bit also.

Congratulations, you enjoy an expansion that was designed with your exact demographic in mind.

Implying that it's ever bad for those of us that are hardcore. Lul.

[GenesisZero]

Vanilla and BC were geared towards casuals #1, never the [H]ardcore. Most players just getting into WoW at launch were mostly casual players. I would say the game has been geared more towards the hard Raiders more recently, with Mythic Raids and M+, etc...

Define casuals, and the content they consume. Old school wow had a tight rein on the dolling out of things that casual take for granted such as Epics, Mounts and rewards in general. Everything was a task and required plenty of grinding, grinding of which most would and could attribute to Hardcore minded.

The game most certainly in the details of the game has not been catered too on the top-end nearly as much, its just not as apparent or under appreciated. Min/Maxing and the concept of realistic BiS has been hit extremely hard since starting with WoD to a degree (WF and Socket change) and really expanded upon in Legion (TF, no hard cap attainable items) and BFA as well. This is where a huge chunk of the Azerite dissatisfaction is coming from, there is no realist way to -

- Undertake the action to earn the pieces with traits you want.
- Undertake the actions to earn the pieces at the ilvl you can best play at (370 for those who can farm 10+ reliably), at least at the higher end of things.

This simply is talking about performance based on gearing and stating let alone class design. Highly subjective is the enjoyment you find, but the fact is the classes broadly have gotten immediately worse compared to their Legion counterparts or iterations prior to that.

There is a lot of other things like the new loot rules enforced and general balance, but the compounding effect of it all is a much lesser experience for those inclined, at least from my prospective.

It's also not like the outdoor and more casual orientated players haven't received anything at all such as WQ, Warfronts and Islands, Ignoring poor implementation. The concepts are there so the desire is there as well.

I am not saying quantity for the top end is missing, that's not the case at all. I simply express the idea that it came at a cost that didn't need to be frankly, overpaid.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

I think there's this weird mindset people get into where they read other people that are upset over some things, think about it, realize that they should be upset too, and internalize it to being their own, overall opinion of the game. It's an even worse version of "You made this? ... I made this." I'm somewhat guilty of it, having not renewed my subscription yet, which ran out the end of last week or so.

The game has plenty of fun things to do, depending on what you want to do. Is BfA the best content? No. It's universally agreed things need work and some things are bland. Before my sub ran out, though, I was having a blast doing old raids, learning about pet battles, discovering new transmog looks, all alongside trying to remember how to do actual content. I stopped at Mythic dungeons but could probably push myself further; even want to level a new character, which is more appealing with the upcoming changes.

The game has and always will be fun to me. Expansions certainly have their ups and downs (I played Vanilla, TBC, and Cataclysm before this), but the core game still has a truckload of fun things. BfA is a microcosm of that sentiment. Warfronts aren't the best, Azerite isn't that fun, class changes are weird...yes, lots to fix. But the zones are great, dungeons are pretty damn interesting, stories are impactful, etc. It's just a wild ride, I guess.

Make sure you don't let other people dictate your enjoyment, and actually discover for yourself if you're having a good time.

And before you question my opinion on the game being fun, note this perspective: I'm a Shaman main. Mostly Elemental since forever, but Restoration recently for...obvious reasons. Imagine if I were an actual class? The game might be AMAZING. I look forward to that!

[Powerogue]

Amen to that. I had a similar feeling when Legion finally got me to level alts of different classes and professions. "Oh, I didn't even know about this feature!" "What an interesting rotation, I might consider making this a new main!" and most of all "man that order hall questline was incredible! So worth all that leveling."

There's less of that in BFA, but still a strong reward for players leveling on both factions, and everything I mentioned before is still there for when I get the rep for my mag'har shaman.

[Zorachus]

Anyone else still working on unlocking Allied Races ?

[xcitng]

I'm the opposite.

I find it hard to log in because my guild died in the end of Legion, I haven't raided in BfA out side of pugs so for me there is no end goal in mind, I'd much rather not play.

[Zorachus]

I'm the opposite.

I find it hard to log in because my guild died in the end of Legion, I haven't raided in BfA out side of pugs so for me there is no end goal in mind, I'd much rather not play.

the thing is I thought exactly like that myself when I still had that raid mentality of rush to level 120 gear up right away and get prepared for the raid. And while waiting before the raid release I started to get really bored and upset with the poor content of BfA, and I almost unsubbed. And then the guild I was in which was a raiding Guild in Legion was already losing players and didn't look to have a full group for a weekly raid schedule, which got me depressed and wondering what I would do now?

I took a few days off WoW which I haven't done in years, and came back with a different mindset. I said fuck chasing this raid scene and being super hero gear character I said I'm going to faction transfer a couple of characters to Alliance and take my time and have the attitude of it's about the journey not the destination. I found a really friendly Alliance guild with some nice players, it's a casual Guild and they all have a million alts leveling up of all different types and I'm in no hurry to level up or be Max geared because I know this expansion is brand new it's only been out one month so there's plenty of time to get Max geared out.

and now with this more casual attitude and a few characters I'm leveling up on Alliance I'm having a lot of fun and not putting the pressure or stress on myself to be i370 and raiding a heroic every week.

Doing it this way for me is more of a good time now

[Sithalos]

Wow, you like BfA more when you play it less. What a shock.