Shrouded Suffocation next on the chopping block?

[Mafic]

There will always be talents/azerite traits/relics/stats that are the best. If blizz's solution is to make everything equally shit, that is a very poor decision. With the nerf to shroud and thunderous blast Laser Matrix is now the strongest trait for nearly all dps classes. Will that be "overpowerd" b/c it is the best now?

The more annoying part is that laser matrix is a generic trait with no class/spec interaction. I don't know about you, but I find the class specific interactions the most fun. Class trinkets or specific trinkets that interact with your spec, tier sets that effect game play, class/spec specific azerite trait, etc are great. Most of the nerfed traits, not just those for rogues, are those that are specific to that class/spec which with the already pruned classes makes the classes even less interesting.

As for quitting, I stay for the same reason many others do--we have guilds and friends we enjoy playing with. That does not mean we enjoy the changes to gameplay and classes seen in BFA. This is especially galling since we pointed out many of these issues during the beta.

Good post.

Your value to the community is immense. This is because you are able to see the big picture that everyone having laser matrix will be boring.

[exzol94]

I’m actually relieved they only nerfed the trait and not the spec itself.

that trait was the spec lol, now sin is dead more or less

[Swineflew]

that trait was the spec lol, now sin is dead more or less

I mean, maybe in M+

[Aurrora]

OMG BLIZZARD I CANT EQUIP A 370 AZERITE COS MY 340 IS BETTER COS THE 370 PIECES TRAIT IS PURE GARBAGE

ftfy

But I know, fixing the ~10 traits per class that are garbage and make no notable changes to your playstyle is harder than just nerfing the one trait that actually feels good.

[begemoc]

Looking at the least SimC build for traits. I see that Lesser Matrix + 10 is at the top.

What does the +10 mean? I'm guessing that it means "at 10 or more targets". Should would make sense as to why it would be at the top of the Sim.

If I understand correctly, once you kill 3 bosses in Uldir in a week for any consecutive kill you get a stack which increases your Laser Matrix damage, however, the stacks don't work outside Uldir making it useless and if they do work this is just blizzard forcing you to raid in order to be "effective" with your class.
I raided alot last expansion, but in BFA I just want to PVP and run occasion m+. I really can't be bothered to find a guild and follow a set schedule or enjoy wipefest with pugs trying to progress through normal.

[shaunika123]

ftfy

But I know, fixing the ~10 traits per class that are garbage and make no notable changes to your playstyle is harder than just nerfing the one trait that actually feels good.

yes, garrote ticking twice as big as an envenom is totally fine

relative to all other traits of all other classes SS was broken

and even nerfed, it's one of the best traits of the spec

so quit whining.

[begemoc]

Can somebody explain to me, why this trait is regarded as the best and gets a nerf now? Can't wrap my head around the math.
When I tested it on a dummy, each garrote from stealth did like 15-20k extra damage. Vanish is 2min, so it's like 150dps.

Sims like https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#r...tacking&tier=3 tell me it's way more. What am I missing, where is this damage(ps) supposed to be coming from?

Basically, the regular Garrote ticks for 1k standard and 2k crits, however, the empowered Garrote ticks for 5k and 10k crits. That's only with 2 traits, so potentially would be even higher with 3.
Now, this was a very nice opener that gave us empowered Garrote for roughly 35-40seconds if played right.
I'm doing basic math and I find that even post nerf we still aren't that far behind, meaning our empowered Garrote hits for 3k (5k -40%) and crits for 6k (10k -40%) which is still 3x stronger than regular Garrote application...

[Aurrora]

yes, garrote ticking twice as big as an envenom is totally fine

You should get your envenom looked at, sounds like it's broken. Garrote was never ticking twice as hard as envenom.

relative to all other traits of all other classes SS was broken

And yet it only brought up assassination aoe on mythic trash to being comparable to other classes... and only excelled when the trash pulls were groups of 3-4 that lasted around 20 seconds.

and even nerfed, it's one of the best traits of the spec

You must be looking at some different math than I am, it's completely fallen out of the running for aoe damage, and it wasn't even the best trait for aoe to begin with.

[shaunika123]

You should get your envenom looked at, sounds like it's broken. Garrote was never ticking twice as hard as envenom.

okay maybe slight exaggeration, but got garrote ticks as high as 21-22k

when envenom is barely similar.

And yet it only brought up assassination aoe on mythic trash to being comparable to other classes... and only excelled when the trash pulls were groups of 3-4 that lasted around 20 seconds.

well maybe assa is not supposed to be amazing at AOE?
it was also broken on single target dude and it was insane there, it was quite literally 40% above any other trait
and btw, scent of blood was barely underperforming it in m+ it's just harder to maximize, so assa is still gonna be fine in high keys

You must be looking at some different math than I am, it's completely fallen out of the running for aoe damage, and it wasn't even the best trait for aoe to begin with.

again, it was broken on single target too.
in fact it was so broken that it pushed assa in to one of the best aoe specs in the game when it was never supposed to be that.

[Aurrora]

okay maybe slight exaggeration, but got garrote ticks as high as 21-22k

when envenom is barely similar.

No seriously, get your envenom looked at, my envenoms hit twice as hard as garrote ticks before the nerf.

well maybe assa is not supposed to be amazing at AOE?

Is there some reason a spec capable of multi-dotting shouldn't be good in a multiple target situation? AOE has always been one of Assassination's strengths.

it was also broken on single target dude and it was insane there

Hardly insane, it starts out strong because all of your azerite trait damage is frontloaded, but damage is comparable with other classes as you reach the two minute mark.

[shaunika123]

Is there some reason a spec capable of multi-dotting shouldn't be good in a multiple target situation? AOE has always been one of Assassination's strengths.

because it was already amazing at cleave AND single target and it's also the most forgiving raidspec out of the 3 to top it off.

why does it need to be amazing at aoe also?

Hardly insane, it starts out strong because all of your azerite trait damage is frontloaded, but damage is comparable with other classes as you reach the two minute mark.

it was literally 40% ahead of the 2nd trait in a 5 minute sim...


assa is still demonstrably fine post nerf

even in m+ just get scent of blood stacks instead (and one shrouded)

and you're fine.

No seriously, get your envenom looked at, my envenoms hit twice as hard as garrote ticks before the nerf.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=9

guess we were both wrong

highest garrote 26k
highest envenom 31k

[shaunika123]

Simply parroting what you heard somebody else say without thinking about your comment is not useful.

First, azerite gear is not rng on top of rng. There is no WF or TF. Every piece is specific with specific traits attached to it. And you can look in the journal to see exactly where every item drops. So, if you have a piece you want to farm ... you can ... and you'll get exactly what you are trying to get.

As well, thinking that a game as deep and complex as wow won't need major tuning 247/365 is naive. Of course it will. There are literally thousands of moving parts, all of which affect each other. And at some point, you need to see things in action across a large sample of players to know how it actually plays out. The alternative is a company that does not give a shit and never tunes, and that would be much worse.

And for the record, let me clear up this idiotic comment that people make so often about "they do it to keep you subbed". The only thing that keeps you subbed is "you". The minute you decide not to be subbed, you aren't. Get it?

as much as I agree with the rest, that's just very naive
blizzard even admitted they put in certain mechanics to just prolong your playtime pointlessly.

they put in personal loot for that reason
they put in azerite for that reason

and a bunch of other shit

[shaunika123]

Yep.
But that is literally the heart of an mmo ... design the game to keep players engaged long term.
Now, do they always do it in an interesting way? Nope.
But ...
This is what an mmo is about ( esp from a for-profit company ), and I think people tend to forget that.

there's a difference between doing it organically though, and just forcing it on you
early wow used to do the former, now it does the latter.

[mcrx]

Reorigination Array doesn't increase Laser Matrix damage.

It only gives 75 of your highest secondary stat per stack

[Knslyr]

because it was already amazing at cleave AND single target and it's also the most forgiving raidspec out of the 3 to top it off.

why does it need to be amazing at aoe also?

Sounds like you are talking about combat rogue in most expansions.

At least assassination has to work for great multi target dmg, Combat/Outlaw just pops Blade Flurry.

[nocturnus]

There will always be talents/azerite traits/relics/stats that are the best. If blizz's solution is to make everything equally shit, that is a very poor decision. With the nerf to shroud and thunderous blast Laser Matrix is now the strongest trait for nearly all dps classes. Will that be "overpowerd" b/c it is the best now?

The more annoying part is that laser matrix is a generic trait with no class/spec interaction. I don't know about you, but I find the class specific interactions the most fun. Class trinkets or specific trinkets that interact with your spec, tier sets that effect game play, class/spec specific azerite trait, etc are great. Most of the nerfed traits, not just those for rogues, are those that are specific to that class/spec which with the already pruned classes makes the classes even less interesting.

As for quitting, I stay for the same reason many others do--we have guilds and friends we enjoy playing with. That does not mean we enjoy the changes to gameplay and classes seen in BFA. This is especially galling since we pointed out many of these issues during the beta.

Again, SS hasn't been made shit; it's still good. Besides the fact that laser matrix has also been nerfed, it only surpasses SS on single target encounters.

[Sinte]

that trait was the spec lol, now sin is dead more or less

Not sure what you're talking about. Yes we took a hit but I'm still pushing good numbers in heroic/mythic. The only thing that changed is that I can't out-cleave a demon hunter now. Which we shouldn't be able to in the first place ,that's their niche.

The biggest hit we took was in cleave for M+ but SS is still good there. In one more week, anyone with half a brain will be wearing matrix/archive in uldir so in raiding it doesn't even matter. Only thing I'll miss about the SS is the opener.



P.S That said, I agree, I think it is silly that generic zone traits are outperforming class traits. Class traits should always be either competitive or better than generic, because it adds flavor (or even changes some parts of your rotation).

[Deleted]

Simply parroting what you heard somebody else say without thinking about your comment is not useful.

First, azerite gear is not rng on top of rng. There is no WF or TF. Every piece is specific with specific traits attached to it. And you can look in the journal to see exactly where every item drops. So, if you have a piece you want to farm ... you can ... and you'll get exactly what you are trying to get.

As well, thinking that a game as deep and complex as wow won't need major tuning 247/365 is naive. Of course it will. There are literally thousands of moving parts, all of which affect each other. And at some point, you need to see things in action across a large sample of players to know how it actually plays out. The alternative is a company that does not give a shit and never tunes, and that would be much worse.

And for the record, let me clear up this idiotic comment that people make so often about "they do it to keep you subbed". The only thing that keeps you subbed is "you". The minute you decide not to be subbed, you aren't. Get it?

Thanks for the reply 1$ has been deposited to your battle.net account

[Kaver]

Simply parroting what you heard somebody else say without thinking about your comment is not useful.

First, azerite gear is not rng on top of rng. There is no WF or TF. Every piece is specific with specific traits attached to it. And you can look in the journal to see exactly where every item drops. So, if you have a piece you want to farm ... you can ... and you'll get exactly what you are trying to get.

As well, thinking that a game as deep and complex as wow won't need major tuning 247/365 is naive. Of course it will. There are literally thousands of moving parts, all of which affect each other. And at some point, you need to see things in action across a large sample of players to know how it actually plays out. The alternative is a company that does not give a shit and never tunes, and that would be much worse.

And for the record, let me clear up this idiotic comment that people make so often about "they do it to keep you subbed". The only thing that keeps you subbed is "you". The minute you decide not to be subbed, you aren't. Get it?

Azerite gear doesn’t drop from mythic+ so you can’t really target it. And you can’t really target a raid boss. You can argue that it is rng on top on rng due to the fact that if you get 385 Azerite gear it’s not certain you can use it.

[nocturnus]

With all the difficulty:
1. Getting the piece from the limited various sources
2. Piece being proper
3. Piece not being garbage item level

I find it crazy that on top of that they come and nerf traits that is obvious someone worked hard to get. I think effort should not be punished.

Effort shouldn't be punished, but broken traits should be fixed. That's all they did.