WoW's economy is beyond redemption at this point

[Finear]

<.< how about buying the needed gold to get a darkmoon deck : fathom? BiS for different classes , superior to raid trinkets ? seems pretty P2W to me.

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darkmoon decks dude , bis and stuff

it isnt p2w because these items are avaible for everyone for gold that is normally obtainable in-game
and people have shit loads of gold without paying $$ so it's not like you have to sell tokens for gold to buy Darkmoon trinkets

quite the opposite actually

For me it's anything you can pay money for to skip the grind of the game, whereas others work for it. So character boosts, buying gold through token selling and all that shit.

cool but you are not the one defining what is p2w and wow isn't by definition

how you feel about it is a completely different story but in general yeah its fine

[Deleted]

It's only a good thing when it makes Activision money, not when it made the Chinese farmers money.

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You make a very good point actually, skipping a grind IS pay-to-win, I never thought of it that way.

I have been arguing this in this forum at end of Legion - Blizz is making it easier and easier for whales to get what they want without getting good AND without an obvious p2w implementation. They just allow whales to make any mass of gold with RL money to pay for anything - including player sold/bought services like paid raids and m+ runs. Even such small and relatively unrelated changes like enforced PL make whale life easier by making sure they don’t have to get good or rely on other players’ honesty to get their shinies (PL = guaranteed loot in lower numbers but can be easily set off by buying more boosts during which the whale sits at dungeon entrance anyway). Whales are happy. Blizz financials are happy. Non-whales are part of the product.

Welcome to WoW, Neo.

[Lochton]

When even the devs are encouraging and happy that people are buying gold and pay2winning their way in the game, you know any hope of balancing it is out the window. From he front page:

"This means that more people are buying the Tokens with real money faster than those buying the token with gold. Thus causing the price to fall. It unfortunately means a little less gold for your token, but the market dictates that is how much it's worth at the moment. Lot's of gold is moving around as its still the start of an expansion. It's pretty normal.

In fact it means the opposite of what you're proposing, its good for WoW as a whole because it means people are buying plenty of tokens to sell for gold. Slightly negative for token sellers if anything.

I totally see the point you're making though, in that it implies less people are buying tokens with gold. Which isn't necessarily the truth but rather the value of those selling them for gold has drastically changed causing the price to fall."

It's good for WoW as a whole...how in the unholy fuck is gold buying a good thing?
Negative for gold sellers...you ARE gold sellers.

And of course the usual PR bullshit, they can "totally see what we're saying" and "isn't necessarily the truth" and "it's pretty normal". It's fine. Everything is fine.

It's "fine". The game is in a "good spot".

Uhm, not really any P2W still. Unless you are one of the lot who believes that mounts/pets/transmog helmets are P2W.

The tokens are purchased for real money by players, sold on the auction for gold by players, purchased on auction with gold by players.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I sat out almost the entirety of WoD and Legion. Last I played seriously a gold stash of 50-100k was rather impressive.

Coming back in BfA where people are literally swimming in gold from the mission tables of two expansions while I've got fuckall and there's no real way to make money outside of AH (which requires investment capital to begin with, besides I've always loathed the AH) really does suck.

I have no idea how they'll drain the billionaires without screwing over the penniless however.

The 5M mount seems to be the way... the BMAH also works fairly well when rare stuff comes up.

[Deleted]

wow isn’t by definition

That’s the beauty. I admire how they did it. They’d get impressive backlash for anything more direct but now - people like you are gladly defending them along with semantics they don’t understand. Great job well done by Blizz. Not for the players though, aside from the critically important whales.

I know how OP feels though - I came back to WoW after years and it was WoD. I had 10.000gold total across all alts when I sold everything. Then I got rich af in WoD and even more in Legion with alts, companion app and gold missions. Never been a whale but didn’t pay RL money for a sub in months. I’m part of their product and I am aware of that.

[Demetrion]

Wow 750g for one herb? What magical realm are you on? Herbs are worth around 50g if that. And boe farming. Yeah, gotta get that sweet sweet rng profit. Oh look, you've been farming for 10 hours, 2 people in your group got 2-3 boes, and one guy got the mount twice while you got vendor trash.

Tarren Mill, EU, one Anchor Weed costs from 650-750G

Anchor Weed as of this writing, is 749G, so it's not magical.

Also, Siren's Pollen as of this writing, one herb is 91G, and Riverbud 67G.

I took only these 2 herbs since they're used for majority of flasks/potions.

Made over half of million gold from only selling these 3 in past 4 days.

[Deleted]

What do you even need money for in this game? Also, if you're only getting 10 anchorweed an hour you're absolutely terrible.

Sub? Other Blizz games? Server transfers? Faction changes? Boosts (I don’t but you can)? BoE? Name changes? Pets? Mounts? Whatever tickles your pickle not only “in this game”. That’s how well thought out their RL money sink model is without semantically falling into the p2w backlash category.

[Planetdune]

people are willing to pay the 20 euros for the 170-200k to get some new shiny. It is not pay to win in any way...

How is buying a "new shiny" with real money not "pay to win". It's unbelievable how people twist themselves in trying to defend Blizzard.

[Deeth]

P2W is having items in game that are only obtainable by spending real money. Nothing in wow, except cosmetics, is only available in the shop. Stop twisting the definition to fit your agenda.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't see a problem.

Though this is more the impact of the nerfing of the mission tables.

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<.< how about buying the needed gold to get a darkmoon deck : fathom? BiS for different classes , superior to raid trinkets ? seems pretty P2W to me.

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darkmoon decks dude , bis and stuff

You mean... the trinket from the same ilv that normal uldir drops? Oh the humanity! The terrible P2W!

You guys don't have a clue what true P2W is. Believe me, when we are there everyone will know without a doubt.

[slime]

It's not the guilds generating billions of gold selling runs daily. What in the hell do they even do with this gold? They have enough gold for years of raid mats... what do they do with all this gold?>

[kamuimac]

What do you even need money for in this game? Also, if you're only getting 10 anchorweed an hour you're absolutely terrible.

isnt it obvious ? other blizzard games and generaly battlenet balance. most of wow "milionaires" have hundreds of euro/ dollars worth of balance thx to gold.

thing is - it may seem not much but after few years its stacks. just gametime alone for 4 years is nearly 500 euro , in my case i also bought all shop mounts , helms , pets , all other blizzard games so i easily "saved" at least 1000 euro by doin it.

yes its not specially impressive amount of money but its something which i dont mind haveing in my pocket

[Caprix]

It's not the guilds generating billions of gold selling runs daily. What in the hell do they even do with this gold? They have enough gold for years of raid mats... what do they do with all this gold?>

One Cauldron is like 30-40k in mat, 2 cauldrons per 3h raid + repair bills + fucking pots you can say a raid evening costs in the ballpark of 100k-200k overall.

[nocturnus]

For me it's anything you can pay money for to skip the grind of the game, whereas others work for it. So character boosts, buying gold through token selling and all that shit. Grind is a big part of what WoW is, by paying money to skip it you're "winning" the game faster.

Not that I give a shit, I don't measure the size of my dick and wealth by the amount of purple pixels I amass in video games, just saying, this is how I see it.

I can see your point, but no, "grind" is not a big part of what WoW is, even if it might be to you.

I wouldn't even see it as winning the game. If a few euros can put you in a position where playing the game is more enjoyable to you, why wouldn't you do it? Paying for a boost is much cheaper than leveling a character from 1 to 120, for example, so unless you like the journey, why not?

[spleen1015]

If you don't have gold, you're not trying hard enough. I spent 20k yesterday morning, came home to 70k from the items I spent that 20k on.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

When you play a lot you get a lot of gold which you spend on tokens.
When you don't play a lot you get tokens to sell for gold.

There's not really a problem here, Many people in my guild have 3 or more characters they boost mythic + or other content with, earning them tokens or gold.
My guild has since Warlords sold boost spots in our raids for gear and/or mount, after Legion I think the GM and officers had like 80m gold across their characters which in the end was spread across all the people who took part in the raids. On average the raiders got like 2.5m gold, each.

A friend of mine is selling mythic+ 10 boosts with his guild group for 2 tokens, each run taking around 40 minutes. Depending on region token prices that's pretty good.

[Deleted]

We are in a transition period currently. Blizzard has removed most sources of in-game generated gold - missions are almost worthless, WQs don't offer as much gold as before, and are as an income not as stable as daily quests back then, because they have randomised rewards. Many items which would have been sold in previous expansions (useless quest rewards, discarded gear) are not sold anymore, but scrapped, which does not generate gold in the system, but only can be sold for gold from other players (as in selling materials or crafted items). Vendor junk does not sell for more than that in Legion. Random epics and mounts are not a relieble source of income, have never been. And they also don't create gold in the system, they just move gold from player to player when they are sold and not used by the player who got them.

While the in-game generated gold sources have mostly dried up, there is a huge pool of gold on the player side remaining from former expansions, which leads to prices being overblown in comparison to the gold generated in-game. Some share of that gold will probably leave the game via gold sinks like the 5 mio mount, or BMAH, or tokens. The question is how long will it take for the economy to settle at a new equilibrium, and how will this look like, and will it be disturbed by the next expansion or not.

[valax]

I honestly don't see a problem.

Though this is more the impact of the nerfing of the mission tables.

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You mean... the trinket from the same ilv that normal uldir drops? Oh the humanity! The terrible P2W!

You guys don't have a clue what true P2W is. Believe me, when we are there everyone will know without a doubt.

yes specifically that 355 AH trinket that is so good that Uldir HC / M+10 trinkets in comparison suck big dick , that trinket , the same selling for the exact price of a WoW token .

[Navitas]

Don't forget the the majority of the player base is much older than at the start of Vanilla. A lot of people with jobs and families still play (I'm one of these people) and they don't have time to farm, farm, farm. A token costs me £17 and gives ~180k gold, it takes me ~an hour (after tax) to earn £17 so it stands to reason that buying a token is a much more efficient use of my time.

That said ~£2k for a flask and the same again for a feast is pretty expensive, but not ridiculous. Plus prices will drop off as the expansion goes on.

[Planetdune]

If you don't have gold, you're not trying hard enough. I spent 20k yesterday morning, came home to 70k from the items I spent that 20k on.

I always hear these stories, I once told one of those guys that he could log into my account and make me a million in a week (which he claimed he could do) but suddenly he couldn't..