What previously added element do you wish could be removed from the game today?

[Deleted]

By the end of an expansion almost everybody could see later / latest raids. Even bad guilds set a foot into MH / BT (maybe not Sunwell) and could achieve something because Blizzard implemented catch up mechanics with 2.4 (excellent token equipment).

And yes, that's exactly what I want. A story mode LFR with really bad loot so that everybody can progress through the story and a raiding system that's build on progress and not gets resetted with every new content patch.

I'd be perfectly ok with LFR being removed from the gearing curve tbh. Not the reason I do it anyway. But I think that if you do that, that after 1 or 2 months it will be impossible to find a LFR group. Probably not the best idea either.

[RoKPaNda]

LFR brings way too much of bad than it gives good. Normal mod is alredy super easy. You have 2y to finish about 12 hours of play time in normal mod for all tiers. You dont need LFR anymore. Specialy not with flwx tech. As for me LFR is actualy what killed raiding for me. And btw people run LFR no becouse it is fun or becouse they want to see raid content. They do it becouse it drops free gear.

It's like you didn't even read the post you quoted. I already explained why the pros of LFR outweigh the cons. If you don't like LFR there is zero reason to run it anymore. It's still great for its target audience. They're not going to jump into normal mode any more than people who run normal or heroic are going to suddenly jump into Mythic. As an actual raider, LFR is one of the best things that Blizzard ever added to this game even though it's not directly content for me, it makes my content better.

[Deleted]

Titanforge and rng legendaries like legion that were only in bfa prepatch as they shouldve been on day 1 of expac.

[LuminaL]

Flying, but not because I'm against flying.

I'm against the incredibly cheap and crap way Blizzard implemented flying, which is as a sort of high-speed swimming in the air. It was clearly half-arsed, even at the time, ill-considered, and just sort of slapped into the game. There are indications that they were planning a more complex system (in both TBC and WotLK), but that never materialized. I'd go back in time and have flying not get added until Blizzard were ready to do it justice, give it an actual flight model, maybe even different models for different creatures, and a revision of the mount system in general (another thing Blizzard have considered a few times but never done).



This is such a weird half-truth or reverse-truth. It's like people almost get it, but not quite.

WoW launched as a casual game. Vanilla was super-fucking-casual, in terms of the people who played the game, and the way they played the game. You can see that, very easily, if you look at videos of raids, including server-firsts, from Vanilla. I was there on a bunch a realm-firsts, for example, and like, we usually had about 35-37 people (pretty much never 40), and 10-15 of them were basically barely playing the game. Either they were chatting, or totally half-arsing it or whatever.

Hell, my very first raid in WoW, I was literally playing the character of one of the officers, who wanted the night off but hadn't been able to get it so he asked me to pretend to be him. I had no idea what I was doing. I'd never played a character about level 40 before in WoW. We did great, and downed every boss we attempted that night.

So this idea that WoW "became casual" is just complete and utter nuclear-grade horseshit. Even in TBC and WotLK, the average level of play, even from quite "advanced" guilds and players was not terribly high.

And in Vanilla-WotLK everyone and their grandma was playing. Literally. I played with people of all ages and backgrounds, most of them were terrible players but there was little correlation between that and their age group or whatever.

But in late TBC a change had started, and it progressed verrrrrrry slowly through WotLK, and then very quickly through Cataclysm.

And that changes was not "casualization", it was DRAWING A BIG CLEAR LINE between "casuals" and "experts" (we'll call them). In Vanilla-WotLK, you often played with very casual players, whatever you were doing. Long before LFD this was true. You needed 5 people do do a dungeon, you probably ended up bringing at least one person who barely knew how to play, but was like, easy to get along with, or fun to have around, or just well-behaved and not going to do anything dumb. In a raid you probably had some slightly questionable players - in Vanilla you probably had a ton, even - and it didn't stop you doing even HMs or Heroics for the most part (the biggest barrier in Vanilla and TBC was gearing people up, more than anything else).

Cataclysm shat all over that. It was all about drawing the line between casual and experts. If you brought casuals with you, it was likely to be a big problem, whether it was Heroic Dungeons, or raids (even Normal, arguably).

And THAT was why they ended up having to create LFR, because Blizzard themselves created a situation where instead of casuals being in your raid, it was increasingly experts-only or "serious" players only, or however you want to put it. TBC and WotLK each made the problem a little worse and Cataclysm made it WAY worse. This crashed the number of people raiding, and Blizzard found their own metrics showed they had a problem, so to try and fix it they came up with LFR.

Which was a bandage for a chopped-off leg. It stopped the bleeding but it didn't bring the leg back. Those players were gone. The guilds that supported them had broken up, for the most part, either becoming invite-everyone guilds, or becoming "SRS RAIDING" guilds, instead of the general guilds which used to be common.

And Blizzard has been trying to fix that problem since, with limited success.

LFD certainly didn't help casual players, either. All it did was get anyone who was a non-expert abused and treated like shit. I was an expert when it came in, and whilst I was always polite to players who weren't experts, a lot of people weren't, and the obsession with rushing or doing stupid shit that LFD created - something pushed by expert players, not "casuals". Almost all the really bad behaviour in LFD wasn't from "casuals", it was from l337 idiots who though they were hot shit because they had a couple of bits of 25-man gear or whatever - rudeness, DPS who pulled, DPS who didn't know what aggro was, healers who never cast a heal, tanks who pulled way more than they could possibly survive?

You think that's casuals?

Wrong. That's bad experts. Incompetent experts. None of them are "casual". They don't play like casuals. They don't think like casuals. They play badly and aggressively, and that's the real problem with LFD - it didn't encourage "casuals". It encouraged, rude, stupid idiots who got kicked out of normal, pre-LFD groups for being rude, stupid idiots.

So LFD and LFR were real problems, but "casualization" was not. It was drawing a line between casuals and non-casuals that was the real problem, that an LFD encouraging really shitty behaviour from non-casuals.

I call it the best describing post about the whole wow situation we have now. I enjoyed reading this to be honest. someone who gets the REAL situation.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Many of those points are just meme-worthy nonsense having been spouted for a decade by now.

As for the real features: Nothing. I don't wish for the removal of things simply because I don't enjoy/partake in them.

That being said, I think flying should be reworked in terms of physics and how we fly. Think, ArcheAge gliding. THAT is engaging and fun! And while they're at it, they could also implement actual physics to the water environment, like in GW2!

[Deleted]

I want more than one. But if I had to choose, I'd choose how we became heroes, it really killed a lot of the fun for me, and it's the largest reason I didn't touch the game in patch 7.x outside of leveling from 100 to 110 during last year's blizzcon because I was super excited about the classic announcement. I played all of 3 days.

Let me be a random adventurer again, not speaker of the horde or champion of the alliance.

[Thenatural]

I like how the results of this poll imply that combat and ability use was ever complex and intricate

[iamthedevil]

LFR literally has zero effect on you if you don't do it. All it does is get people into raiding that wouldn't have raided otherwise. This is in turn a good thing for normal+ raids because it brings more people into the mix.

[docterfreeze]

Pruning closely followed by CRZ. Pruning murdered PvP and CRZ murdered server communities.

I'll never forget MoP alter time, scare beast, deep freeze, and spectral guise. All fun spells that added to the skill it took to master a class.

[Shockzalot]

The current class design philosophies are shitty. Pruning worthless abilities was fine, but making every dps class a 2 spell/attack hero was a mind boggling decision. My ele shammy is Lightning bolt spam, refresh flame shock, cast lava burst and use Earth shock when I have enough Maelstrom that's it.

[Champagne Supernova]

Those Objective zone 'quests', its not so bad now...but WoD zones.... Christ :P

[Paperfox]

Flying, but not because I'm against flying.

I'm against the incredibly cheap and crap way Blizzard implemented flying, which is as a sort of high-speed swimming in the air. It was clearly half-arsed, even at the time, ill-considered, and just sort of slapped into the game. There are indications that they were planning a more complex system (in both TBC and WotLK), but that never materialized. I'd go back in time and have flying not get added until Blizzard were ready to do it justice, give it an actual flight model, maybe even different models for different creatures, and a revision of the mount system in general (another thing Blizzard have considered a few times but never done).



This is such a weird half-truth or reverse-truth. It's like people almost get it, but not quite.

WoW launched as a casual game. Vanilla was super-fucking-casual, in terms of the people who played the game, and the way they played the game. You can see that, very easily, if you look at videos of raids, including server-firsts, from Vanilla. I was there on a bunch a realm-firsts, for example, and like, we usually had about 35-37 people (pretty much never 40), and 10-15 of them were basically barely playing the game. Either they were chatting, or totally half-arsing it or whatever.

Hell, my very first raid in WoW, I was literally playing the character of one of the officers, who wanted the night off but hadn't been able to get it so he asked me to pretend to be him. I had no idea what I was doing. I'd never played a character about level 40 before in WoW. We did great, and downed every boss we attempted that night.

So this idea that WoW "became casual" is just complete and utter nuclear-grade horseshit. Even in TBC and WotLK, the average level of play, even from quite "advanced" guilds and players was not terribly high.

And in Vanilla-WotLK everyone and their grandma was playing. Literally. I played with people of all ages and backgrounds, most of them were terrible players but there was little correlation between that and their age group or whatever.

But in late TBC a change had started, and it progressed verrrrrrry slowly through WotLK, and then very quickly through Cataclysm.

And that changes was not "casualization", it was DRAWING A BIG CLEAR LINE between "casuals" and "experts" (we'll call them). In Vanilla-WotLK, you often played with very casual players, whatever you were doing. Long before LFD this was true. You needed 5 people do do a dungeon, you probably ended up bringing at least one person who barely knew how to play, but was like, easy to get along with, or fun to have around, or just well-behaved and not going to do anything dumb. In a raid you probably had some slightly questionable players - in Vanilla you probably had a ton, even - and it didn't stop you doing even HMs or Heroics for the most part (the biggest barrier in Vanilla and TBC was gearing people up, more than anything else).

Cataclysm shat all over that. It was all about drawing the line between casual and experts. If you brought casuals with you, it was likely to be a big problem, whether it was Heroic Dungeons, or raids (even Normal, arguably).

And THAT was why they ended up having to create LFR, because Blizzard themselves created a situation where instead of casuals being in your raid, it was increasingly experts-only or "serious" players only, or however you want to put it. TBC and WotLK each made the problem a little worse and Cataclysm made it WAY worse. This crashed the number of people raiding, and Blizzard found their own metrics showed they had a problem, so to try and fix it they came up with LFR.

Which was a bandage for a chopped-off leg. It stopped the bleeding but it didn't bring the leg back. Those players were gone. The guilds that supported them had broken up, for the most part, either becoming invite-everyone guilds, or becoming "SRS RAIDING" guilds, instead of the general guilds which used to be common.

And Blizzard has been trying to fix that problem since, with limited success.

LFD certainly didn't help casual players, either. All it did was get anyone who was a non-expert abused and treated like shit. I was an expert when it came in, and whilst I was always polite to players who weren't experts, a lot of people weren't, and the obsession with rushing or doing stupid shit that LFD created - something pushed by expert players, not "casuals". Almost all the really bad behaviour in LFD wasn't from "casuals", it was from l337 idiots who though they were hot shit because they had a couple of bits of 25-man gear or whatever - rudeness, DPS who pulled, DPS who didn't know what aggro was, healers who never cast a heal, tanks who pulled way more than they could possibly survive?

You think that's casuals?

Wrong. That's bad experts. Incompetent experts. None of them are "casual". They don't play like casuals. They don't think like casuals. They play badly and aggressively, and that's the real problem with LFD - it didn't encourage "casuals". It encouraged, rude, stupid idiots who got kicked out of normal, pre-LFD groups for being rude, stupid idiots.

So LFD and LFR were real problems, but "casualization" was not. It was drawing a line between casuals and non-casuals that was the real problem, that an LFD encouraging really shitty behaviour from non-casuals.

This is a great post.

I would add that I think it is a mistake for Blizz to have a primary focus on, what I call, tourist players. Those who leave the game and come back when an expansion comes out and then leave two months later. The people who play all the time should be focused on as well.

[Aqua]

So... you want to remove raiding? Or have it go back to the Cata times of mini 2-boss raids, cut raids, small raids, and raids with no new models, art assets, and such? Cause that's what you're asking for.

Wh... no that is not how a slippery slide argument even works, what you've got there is a slippery landslide into the valley of hyperbole and complete void of reason. I want Looking for raid removed and raiding to continue working as it does minus it. What even gave you the idea I'd want it to go to that.

Cata INTRODUCED Looking for raid (and the raiding scene was cut down because of the split focus on revamping the leveling system, not anything to do with the actual raiding scene, WoTLK raiding was as popular as anything) so how did you even get any of that out of what I said?

[Deleted]

Not sure what you talking about. Becouse ghostclawler posted that he regret of creating LFR. It was in time where Blizz didnt had flex tech. Yes LFR does open raids to lower bottom of players. But for huge prize. LFR brings lot ot toxic behavirour into the game when comes to players and progression itself that it really wasny worth having such system in first place.

this is wrong on so many levels:
#1 I was talking about the horrid tbc raid system where you would have to do raid 1 to do raid 2 to do raid 3 and so on
#2 lfr is what keeps this game alive no matter how much YOU hate casuals (for whom this game was created from the start)
#3 lfr doesnt bring toxic behaviour people do (what you tried here is like sayin guns kill people when it truth its people again)
#4 you can hate lfr as much as you want but even blizzard themself stated that without it there wouldnt be ANY raids anymore because the participation is low.

- - - Updated - - -

Dazed is aids and that stupid mission table shit should go too.

I dunno why you hate on the bfa table all you get is some rep, more fp and lil sums of gold and azerith so no way to use it to get rich.

- - - Updated - - -

In regard to needing to clear older raids before being geared enough to do new ones...there is a case there for sure as to why that would make sense, but it's not going to happen. Not with these players.

fixed your logic flaw there. the catchup mechanism are because of the players that play patch x.y for 1 month and them come back for patch x.y+1 for a month and so on....

WoW is never going to be a hardcore mmo, ever again.

Sorry to burst your bubble but in whicch Elseworld do YOU live? WoW was NEVER hardcore! from the get go it was made to be CASUAL since them creators came from a REAL HC mmo called Everquest. So they created WoW which everyone and his granny could play

[cparle87]

Wh... no that is not how a slippery slide argument even works, what you've got there is a slippery landslide into the valley of hyperbole and complete void of reason. I want Looking for raid removed and raiding to continue working as it does minus it. What even gave you the idea I'd want it to go to that.

Cata INTRODUCED Looking for raid (and the raiding scene was cut down because of the split focus on revamping the leveling system, not anything to do with the actual raiding scene, WoTLK raiding was as popular as anything) so how did you even get any of that out of what I said?

The thing you're missing is that raiding was dying before LFR saved it. Look at Cata's tiers. BoT was the only original raid, BWD used same assets as BWL, To4W was a 2-boss raid with same assets as the dungeon. Firelands was a small raid and its counterpart was cut. And then DS with again, 0 new assets. We get LFR, and look at the huge increase in both quality, art assets, and lengths of raids in MoP. LFR justifies the creation of better, longer raids.

[Aydinx2]

Why aren't Pet Battles on the list?
They're a completely new form of content (seperate from dungeons/raids, save a few rare pets), but you still get world quests and weekly quests for...

[Tic Tacs]

Flying in major cities, miss the days of wall jumping, I'm not against flying in general though, like the idea of you traveling around the world by yourself instead of using flight master. Make ground mounts great again. #MGGA

[Phoef]

That is just a rephrasing of the exact same mechanic. It doesn't change anything.
It is the 'theme' of the expansion, and Blizzard will nudge/push/carrot & stick you until you comply.

Yeah, its rephrasing towards a positive outlook.
You are not LOSING 10%, you are GAINING 10% for turning it on.

[Lasting Journey]

Automated groupings of any kind. I think that is when everything slowly started to go wrong as it breed the " we have to win" mentality.

[Al Gorefiend]

Are blood elves considered an element?