Removal of templates...can't do rbg's

[Demetrion]

Correct.

But that shouldn't happen if ilv/hp doesn't have an impact on your bg/arena HP.

There's an explanation on front page of mmo-champion how does that scaling thing work. It matters. Your HP matters, but the difference isn't as huge as it was before.

OT: Well it's the same as wanting to get into mythic Uldir with 330 ilvl when you haven't even cleared normal. You don't have to go into 2,1K RBGs right away. Do some arenas, cap conquest, you'll get gear very fast.

[Caprix]

Correct.

But that shouldn't happen if ilv/hp doesn't have an impact on your bg/arena HP.

Scaling is supposed to impact your damage/healing. Applying to hp too would make it count "twice".

Not sure how it works for healing btw, does it scale depending on your ilvl versus the friendly player ilvl that you are healing? I would have done it that way so that it's consistent with scaling on damage but hey...

[dcc626]

as shocking as it may seem, not everyone wanted a return of pve gear to pvp

so what you are saying is that there are people unhappy that they were removed and there would be people unhappy if they had stayed.

how precisely do you solve that problem then?

[Sosua]

you're going to have to pve to pvp. I absolutely hate it and after 9 years of doing pretty much nothing but pvp, I am seriously contemplating quitting WOW.

Agreed, foundationally, it is pretty stupid that if you want to be engaged in the PvP side of the game, you NEED TO PvE to gear. They should have a point system in regular battlegrounds that allows you to purchase gear.

[Tyrannica]

So... I have a question.

I was arenaing on my rogue, right now 353, and he sits at around 114.5k hp, about 126 buffed with fort.

I was running priest rogue against priest rogue when my healer said, "Oh god, look at their hp." The other rogue had about 150k hp.

How...
The...
Hell...
Is that possible?

PS: Some high rated rogues have 138 base, so they might be reaching that high with fort... but that's only if HP from gear matters.

I linked this in my first post in this thread, somehow it works only on smartphone, so people seem to ignore it.

can't explain right now why that other rogue had that much hp right now, you both did see this? At least combat logs are different when damage is calculated the hp bars are different to each other, the guy with more hp will see more dmg done to him since dmg is a % value based on the total amount of Hp.

Just watch the video - also the fort buff might actually hurt, since more heals/mana is required to heal you up, while dmg is still % based, think about it, actually this might an advantage, if the other rogue has a higher hp stat, the other priest will have to spend more mana as heals are not % based, unlike dmg.

This system how dmg is calculated in PvP might ridiculue, stamina buffs, abilities and skill traits, too, but its not definately confirmed yet.

Time will tell, if this pvp system is a complete waste, but so far i think it does not look too good as gear progression goes and stamina enhancing mechanics?

[Demetrion]

Agreed, foundationally, it is pretty stupid that if you want to be engaged in the PvP side of the game, you NEED TO PvE to gear. They should have a point system in regular battlegrounds that allows you to purchase gear.

You don't have to PVE to be engaged with PVP.

As soon as you get level 120, you can get a partner and go straight into arena/rbg. Now problem is that you have to find suitable partner for your gear level and progress. What OP want is to go into highest level of PVP as soon as he got to level 120.

[Deleted]

There's an explanation on front page of mmo-champion how does that scaling thing work. It matters. Your HP matters, but the difference isn't as huge as it was before.

OT: Well it's the same as wanting to get into mythic Uldir with 330 ilvl when you haven't even cleared normal. You don't have to go into 2,1K RBGs right away. Do some arenas, cap conquest, you'll get gear very fast.

Right, because we get to choose our bracket when we queue right? Just right click on our portrait and select "DOUBLE CLOTHIE DPS -1400 MMR" as your arena difficulty?

You can be severely outgeared at entry level if the opponent has low enough MMR (which can be for a number of reasons, not just GIT GUD).

[Didly]

Currently players are expected to use wooden baseball bats against opponents with aluminum baseball bats because reasons.

Templates need to come back asap for rated content. Want to warrior smash kids in your mythic gear? Fine, do it in unrated arena, battlegrounds, or out in the world. The Arena is supposed to be about players competing and using their skills to best each other, not a competition between who has the most free time to devote to raid content.

The current system is silly and negates any sort of legitimacy Arenas had as an e-sport.

[Sosua]

You don't have to PVE to be engaged with PVP.

As soon as you get level 120, you can get a partner and go straight into arena/rbg. Now problem is that you have to find suitable partner for your gear level and progress. What OP want is to go into highest level of PVP as soon as he got to level 120.

Really?? why would I do that when I can do a few WQ's and Dungeons, then Warfronts, and get handed a 340+ gear score within 8 hours? The amount of time to find suitable partner and gaining SQUAT in points for loses, why would I, you wouldnt...

[Demetrion]

Right, because we get to choose our bracket when we queue right? Just right click on our portrait and select "DOUBLE CLOTHIE DPS -1400 MMR" as your arena difficulty?

You can be severely outgeared at entry level if the opponent has low enough MMR (which can be for a number of reasons, not just GIT GUD).

Eventually you will win, eventually you will get conquest and you will get gear. It isn't the quickest way to gear up but it's there. Guy I quoted said "you need to PVE to PVP" where the statement was wrong.

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Really?? why would I do that when I can do a few WQ's and Dungeons, then Warfronts, and get handed a 340+ gear score within 8 hours? The amount of time to find suitable partner and gaining SQUAT in points for loses, why would I, you wouldnt...

Yes really. You said you NEED to PVE, where you don't. I would if it bothered me as much as it bothers you.

[SinR]

this really isn't a "GIT GUD" for OP, its a "Hunker down and work your way up" issue.

[Deleted]

Really?? why would I do that when I can do a few WQ's and Dungeons, then Warfronts, and get handed a 340+ gear score within 8 hours? The amount of time to find suitable partner and gaining SQUAT in points for loses, why would I, you wouldnt...

Because you like PvP? Arena is a great way of gearing right now, even with no rating you get 340 bases as soon as you ding. I went the PvE route on my first character and PvP on my alt and I definitely don't regret the arena, it was very fast even with a mediocre winrate because we're not particularly good. I do have a friend I always play with though, so that makes 2s very easy to set up and do with no pressure.

[Luxeley]

Agreed, foundationally, it is pretty stupid that if you want to be engaged in the PvP side of the game, you NEED TO PvE to gear. They should have a point system in regular battlegrounds that allows you to purchase gear.

This approach to gearing is not only a chore to a player who doesn't want to Pve, but it also dilutes the skill involved for high end pvp.

[Rollatorklm]

Funny how people whine about having to pve for pvp gear
as a former high rated arena player (2600 in multiple seasons) who turned to pve because of irl friends
found gearing through arena WAY easier and faster than spamming m+ once you hit the 1800-2100 marker you get insane amounts of gear at a really high ilvl thrown at you

[viridian-716]

Then why can't I get an invite with my 2k+ friends since they all claim my ilevel is too low atm?

If this is true, I wouldn't know, since I don't even get a chance to enter the group. I joined some yolos then logged off since I can't stand that type of frustration.

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It's not an "iquit"

I turned my account over to my sister during legion at the start of the legion expansion.

When she told me there were cathcup mechanics to max out my artifact traits I made a new account, boosted, chained random bg's until i was 900+ with all honor talents and artifact traits.

I reentered the RBG scene at virtually full power in one week.

If I have to wait til the middle/end of this expansion as well, so be it.

Hopefully this M0 PvE farm will help. Gonna hit LFR and island expos in between. This isn't PvP though

Those legion catch ups didnt come until 7.3, when Legion was over a year old and all content was released??? (0.o) WE ARE STILL IN 8.0! Pvp items, potions, flasks, will help you.

[Deleted]

Wait, when and why did they remove templates??

[Bearilla]

The lack of templates in rated PVP makes as much sense as forcing one baseball team to use wooden bats while the other is allowed to use aluminum mounts.

Terrible analogy... Do both teams have access to aluminum bats?

[Kagthul]

Funny how people whine about having to pve for pvp gear
as a former high rated arena player (2600 in multiple seasons) who turned to pve because of irl friends
found gearing through arena WAY easier and faster than spamming m+ once you hit the 1800-2100 marker you get insane amounts of gear at a really high ilvl thrown at you

The number of people who have no concept of how a pyramidal ladder system works is fucking staggering.

You realize that even if they were as good as you are, something like 80-82% of people can NEVER get gear better than what they can get from Mythic +2/3, right?

[Frosteye]

Got my first hero of the alliance in Legion but always been generally 2.2K+

Really liked stat templates because it allowed everyone to be on pretty even footing. Gear only gave a small incremental boost. You could just wear the gear that you got from winning the BG you didn't have to waste time enchanting it or other crap.

They could have improved stat templates by allowing us to custom allocate some secondary stat points, but getting rid of stat templates was a big mistake.

I really don't care for the GCD Changes, for mistweavers it feels slow/clunky. That on top of the class design (Azerite system did not fill the hole created by Artifacts) makes the gameplay really boring for me.

Already unsubbed as of 12 days ago

[lummiuster]

Yeah, I just hit 120 a few days ago, and even ilevel 330 isn't cutting it for RBg's.

I'm 2.2xp and I cannot compete at all.

Apparently I have to PvE farm to be competitive in RBGs

GG

Hit the unsub button until a decent catchup mechanism is implemented (guessing patch 8.1)

later

When I turned to 120, it took me 3days (playing 3h per day) to be 340il just by running 2s (even if i lost 70% of them lol im a warlock).
After having farmed for 3 days, start working on your network, join RBG community that knows you because you performed well in a BG and got invited. You absolutely dont have to do pve for pvp. stop overreacting.
Just do regular RPG stuff to get stronger and the right amount of social required for an MMO and you shouldnt have trouble with this MMORPG.