Elemental 8.1 PTR Changes

[RuneDK]

I mean....being brought is still more fun than NOT being brought?

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Agreed...especially since they just keep putting Elemental Blast on the same talent tier as Echo. No one is going to take it when it competes with that. Echo just makes the spec feel somewhat fluid and most people are just so used to it based on the way the FS/FvB/Lava Surge procs work.

And of course now they are throwing another talent a lot of people took with Earthen Fury onto that SAME tier. Meaning that people are now also not taking Earthen Fury.

I didn't think so then, yes it's overall good being brought in...but i like being competitive within the people i play with. It's not fun when you aren't to me and thats where both dps shaman specs fall right now.

[Ragnarocket]

I didn't think so then, yes it's overall good being brought in...but i like being competitive within the people i play with. It's not fun when you aren't to me and thats where both dps shaman specs fall right now.

Fair point, being at the bottom or middle of the damage meters all run while parsing high percents in Uldir right now I see where you are coming from.

[Deleted]

instead i think call of thunder it is good means that you can use 2 earthshock ...
I do not think they can be added, but if used correctly you can take advantage of two different buffs for the Surge of Power ...
in this case you go in the combo with 1 stormkeeper and two the LB or other 3 LB ...
would know if the Surge of Power on FS means that I can keep two dots on the same target and if so it would be very promising

and if I can give my small opinion I would prefer a lightning-based build.
being the only class that uses lightning, I would not find myself having to shoot fire and ice if not reroll a mage

[Ragnarocket]

instead i think call of thunder it is good means that you can use 2 earthshock ...
I do not think they can be added, but if used correctly you can take advantage of two different buffs for the Surge of Power ...
in this case you go in the combo with 1 stormkeeper and two the LB or other 3 LB ...
would know if the Surge of Power on FS means that I can keep two dots on the same target and if so it would be very promising

and if I can give my small opinion I would prefer a lightning-based build.
being the only class that uses lightning, I would not find myself having to shoot fire and ice if not reroll a mage

I think a few of us can agree with that but the problem is that we're very tied to our Lava Burst/Flame Shock/Earthquake spells to round out our rotations at the moment. I know it was mentioned in the changes for 8.1 that we're the ONLY lightning based caster. That's totally a theme they could double down on eventually. Unfortunately overhauling a spec that much visually/mechanically probably means it's not likely for hot-fixes or a minor patch. That amount of changes I could see in an expansion.

[surgency]

As soon as they start parsing high, everyone in this thread complaining will pick ele back up again. Don't kid yourselves.

[Deleted]

I think a few of us can agree with that but the problem is that we're very tied to our Lava Burst/Flame Shock/Earthquake spells to round out our rotations at the moment. I know it was mentioned in the changes for 8.1 that we're the ONLY lightning based caster. That's totally a theme they could double down on eventually. Unfortunately overhauling a spec that much visually/mechanically probably means it's not likely for hot-fixes or a minor patch. That amount of changes I could see in an expansion.

a caster full lighting I see it as a dream, but already be able to create two different revolutions one based more on lb and fl and one on lb and es could be a way to overcome this thing

[Coldfrostzero]

I think a few of us can agree with that but the problem is that we're very tied to our Lava Burst/Flame Shock/Earthquake spells to round out our rotations at the moment. I know it was mentioned in the changes for 8.1 that we're the ONLY lightning based caster. That's totally a theme they could double down on eventually. Unfortunately overhauling a spec that much visually/mechanically probably means it's not likely for hot-fixes or a minor patch. That amount of changes I could see in an expansion.

As a former paladin player, I can say you don't fully grasp what you are asking for. Getting interrupted and being completely locked out of every single spell does not feel good. Having a couple spell school choices isn't bad at all. Thematically, it might not be as pleasing, but to be completely shut down for 2-3 seconds is extremely frustrating.

[woopytywoop]

Overall class balance is just shit this expansion.

If they want pure dps classes to be better dps in all area's than they should not provide PASSIVE buffs to the whole raid. You take them for their dps.

If they want hybrid classes to be taken for their utility, than it should not be SITUATIONAL utility, but utility that is ALWAYS useful. Like the PASSIVE buffs pure dps classes provide now.

Honestly, these buff/debuff vs utility is just a bag full of horseshit. Design intention is that a raid would want at least 1 of every class in their raid, but no one wants a shaman and these changes won't change one tiny bit about that. Remove drums, TW/BL from mages/hunters and everyone would want a shaman in their group.

[Voltsmasher]

The turret concept is dumb. All of our spells are a baseline cast of 2+ seconds. If our damage is going to require us not to move then our lightning bolts better be a freaking storm with something more like a 1.5 at least.

My main problem with the spec is that it feels like a punishment to need to cast lightning bolt and feels like I'm charging the freaking spirit bomb from DBZ to cast my worth while spells.

[Kralljin]

Those just aren't coming together for me.

Call the Thunder - as someone on the US forums pointed out, naming a Talent "Call the Thunder" which then proceeds to enhance two Earth based abilities is a already quite a joke.

Talent like this don't work on Elemental, as there is no "burst generation" for Maelstrom besides Stormkeeper and even that is avoidable due simply using EQ inbetween.
The cost reduction is questionable, Earth shock will get weaker, therefore the ST gain is not as big, Earthquake reduction competes against LMT and will most likely only win out in full blown AoE.

LMT scales with Haste and roughly does 16k in total (w/o crit) for me currently, EQ does 11k, so just with some quick math, Call the Thunder only pays off once you casted your 6-7th EQ compared to LMT, ignoring Aftershock procs.

Due the fact that Elemental already has a 40 Maelstrom "safe zone", the additional Maelstrom portion is just worthless at face value (ignoring talent synergy).


Surge of Power - i appreciate complex talents but that one is just...no.

FS Empowerment - That just feels like an insult and you're only going to use it in straight multi dot situations, without cleave.

Lvb / LB Empowerment - Sims will tell us which one is stronger, then you're going to ditch the other one.

The issue here that the talent can be decent but it creates this extremely unhealthy talent synergy.
To make safe use out of the Lvb Empowerment, you need EotE or Call the Thunder.

The LB Empowerment obviously has synergy with the Stormkeeper change but that just fuels the problem above:
You're going to need Stormkeeper, what further buffs nature spells? Master of the Elements! What do you need to make Master of the Elements work? EotE!

A talent build that makes full usage out of Surge of Power literally locks you on every talent choice.
Tier 15: EotE
Tier 30: Master of the Elements
Tier 60: Call the Thunder (possibly "weakest" depending on Maelstrom generation / Lvb CD)
Tier 90: Surge of Power
Tier 100: Stormkeeper

Obviously, big question is whether it will be worth it, but even if just the Lvb Empowerment makes Surge of power "being worth", it will still lock on you on EotE.
Also, it competes with PE, that will be difficult because PE is (at least for me) the one good thing about Elemental in BfA, i like that my FE feels powerful and has a decent burst AoE spell to top things off, not even talking about the additional defense via EE.

Surge of power being pretty much a pure ST talent is also not good, during Cleave, those empowerments are worth a lot less, especially since you need to press ES to trigger it, during AoE, Surge of Power is close to useless unless you want to throw 60 Maelstrom away for 3 Cl's with Overload, which doesn't sound good unless those Cl's all work like Stormkeeper.

Going "Full Surge of Power" actually piqued my interest, just looking at it in theory sounds like way too much reliance on Lava Surge procs.

[Ele man]

mana tide to the dps specs will make them only be brought because of that utility....if you never played a DK...then you wouldn't know what it's like...but during siege DKs were only brought cause of gorefiends grasp...both damage specs were garbage in SoO but the utility was needed and it wasn't fun.

Hey, utility like MTT is also available in other specs. gorefiends? That is one of the most important utilities in this game.

[The Stormbringer]

Can you cast Lightning Bolt while moving again? Because it was a thing back in MoP.

[Voltsmasher]

Can you cast Lightning Bolt while moving again? Because it was a thing back in MoP.

Nope that would ruin the class fantasy of dial up dps

[Nyel]

You dont know if the changes are shit, You have as you would say it "NO CLUE" stop with the crying and whining

I know that they're shit because - except making LB better (from hitting like a wet noodle to hitting like a not so wet noodle maybe?) - they don't tackle any of our problems.

[The Stormbringer]

Nope that would ruin the class fantasy of dial up dps

That's pretty terrible class fantasy. Why can't you build up power while also being able to move around? It was great back in MoP, just like BM Hunter with Steady Shot back in WoD.

[Kralljin]

That's pretty terrible class fantasy. Why can't you build up power while also being able to move around? It was great back in MoP, just like BM Hunter with Steady Shot back in WoD.

The pessimistic answer is that Shaman class fantasy is a freeware toolkit that any class can use.

Case in point, Bloodlust, Purge, Curse dispel, ranged interrupts.

[Voltsmasher]

That's pretty terrible class fantasy. Why can't you build up power while also being able to move around? It was great back in MoP, just like BM Hunter with Steady Shot back in WoD.

I wouldn't take as much issue with the turret type build if our casts weren't all a base line of 2+seconds.

If we are going to be expected to do dmg without moving then we need spells we can complete the cast on before needing to move.

Basically if lightning bolt cast was way faster then it would probably fix a lot of issues.

[The Stormbringer]

I wouldn't take as much issue with the turret type build if our casts weren't all a base line of 2+seconds.

If we are going to be expected to do dmg without moving then we need spells we can complete the cast on before needing to move.

Basically if lightning bolt cast was way faster then it would probably fix a lot of issues.

Yeah, turrets should be fast. Spamming and shooting all the dakka, not sitting there slowly reloading, firing off a shot, and repeating.

[Voltsmasher]

Yeah, turrets should be fast. Spamming and shooting all the dakka, not sitting there slowly reloading, firing off a shot, and repeating.

More specifically, it feels bad to do lava burst at a 2.3 sec then finish out to go to another 2sec filler. That's not even taking into account needing to interrupt those cast times constantly to keep from incurring avoidable damage

[The Stormbringer]

More specifically, it feels bad to do lava burst at a 2.3 sec then finish out to go to another 2sec filler. That's not even taking into account needing to interrupt those cast times constantly to keep from incurring avoidable damage

Maybe they could give Shamans a passive that reduces damage taken from AoE while casting spells?