6 years of vanilla talent system vs 8 years of current talent system

[Eazy]

No. The old Talent System was boring and no Choice at all

Yeah, keep saying that to yourself.

[Deleted]

Well, many of the old talents were fillers, so no, don't miss them. Beside, the "new" system isn't that fun for builds.
What could have been a good thing is a mix of what we have now. A set of talents "per spec" and a common set of "class" talents to choose from, whatever spec we are, a bit like what we have now for pvp.

[sam86]

There isn't those but there is talent changes depending on what your doing, leveling/solo/m+/raid, all which have their best spec... just like vanilla.

except there isn't
there was a never ending argument about which is better for holy priest during entire TBC, go advanced spirit in disc tree or get circle of heal in holy instead, one give u a new very strong group-heal spell (back then there was almost no raid healing spells) or having mana since mana was serious problem to everyone, and it boiled out to literally each guild raid group
that one example i can name out in TBC, and wrath really opened the flood to insane builds for pve and pvp, a mage and hunter can spec aoe farming solo pve or go normal questing talent pve (also hunter had more options than mage, he was still worse and weaker, mage was able to gather farms for aoe), and i LOVED trying that to lvl, it was one of reasons that i literally re-lvled a mage just to check it

[micwini]

No. The old Talent System was boring and no Choice at all

What Blizzard failed to do was introducing new Talents with Legion/BFA

Objectively speaking, you had more choice in the old talent tree than the new one.

[Rhall]

yeah that's just BS

in vanilla rogues had like 5 different builds (seal fate backstab, prep backstab, hemo, combat and combat daggers) and all of them were good for something
mages also had liek 5 (deep fire, deep frost, elemental, arcane power fire and arcane power frost) and again, all good for something
warlocks had SM ruin, DM ruin, SL/SB SL/NF again, all good for something

and I could go on..

I really miss playing a sealfate rogue on Vaelestraz. I was always middle of the pack in dps then suddenly leagues ahead of everyone else. That is until I got Chromatically Tempered Sword

[Jingoism]

The old system was way more interesting. That's why all the dullards around here love the new system so much.

[Nightstalker]

Apples and oranges again. I also liked the illusion of choice during the early years of cookie cutter specs.

- - - Updated - - -

The old system was way more interesting. That's why all the dullards around here love the new system so much.

1% more crit and that 5 times, wow. So great. 3 core talents that actually change your playstyle while the rest is just minimalistic performance tuning. It was 90% placebo and you just won't admit it.

[shaunika123]

You realize many of these different builds you’re treating so differently would be like 2-3 talent changes in current WoW? Only difference is there’s a bit less hybrid to it, but they have struck a good balance for class wide skills on basically every class except Mage who could use a bit more fire throughout.

again, I wasnt comparing to current wow, I was just pointing out the fallacy in saying "one viable build/class in the old system" which is just straight up false.

the major difference is back then there werent really "specs" just classes which you customized over three talent trees.

whereas now you're locked into one definite spec. it's a lot less fluid.

and no, they were pretty different

[Deleted]

First video is from a couple of months into vanilla.
Second video is from a few days ago.

Not biased at all.

Also OP switched around the numbers of years, we had the old system for 8, current for 6. A lot of people tend to forget that we still had the old system in Cata, albeit with points/trees squished a little bit. The current iteration came with MoP.

1% more crit and that 5 times, wow. So great. 3 core talents that actually change your playstyle while the rest is just minimalistic performance tuning. It was 90% placebo and you just won't admit it.

This is only somewhat true. That's how it worked from vanilla to wotlk, but cata brought great improvements on that front, MOST talent choices were actually interesting, and MOST of the dull "1% crit" talents had been purged.
And that's the version they should have built on, instead of scrapping it completely.

[Lodreh]

This is a loaded question. Ultimately, it is asking you to choose between two things... do you want 36 classes each with unique spells that may share flavor/lore but little else or 12 classes with a little more customization however that customization is immediately lost if you care about performance and use a "cookie cutter" build. In all honesty that is the question. Do you want to be a Fire Mage or just a Mage that has specced to use an occasional pyroblast?

[Chaelexi]

those 'trap' talents make u better in pvp than ppl who don't take the 'trap' talents, they did make difference
being full frost is viable as mage to have very high defense and good dmg, just for short time since u don't have mana regen, those talents for example help u to lvl by aoe farming if u want to do that (there were guides for that back then), instead of lvl by questing like most ppl, if u want to try a new challenge while lvling

I played warlock at a world top 5 level and PVPed to field marshal in Vanilla......I know what I am talking about. There were many complete trap talents in Vanilla, it was a poorly layed out talent tree and reason why many of the were completely redone in BC was due to lack of direction with in them.......There were a couple trap talents in vanilla that made a difference but in PVP but the vast majority of them were hot trash for everything. Prime example Affliction 31 point talent 1 GCD for 250 mana..... hmmm yup well designed talent there...... or how about improved firebolt in destro yes make you imp's fireball faster the pet that would get hit by any aoe and die and you lose the stam buff.... or even worse improved lash of pain......yup because that pet saw the light of day beyond cheesing PVP where it's only use was seduce. And those are just a few for warlock but every class had this. Then look at most of the old talents, increase damage of X by y, reduce CD of Z by y, there were very few rotation defining talents in vanilla beyond the 31 point talent for some classes(the ones that went that deep in the tree, ex MS or bloodthirst).

Now you have 4 or 5 rows that make rotation defining decisions on top of the biggest on the spec you choose. And there still are AOE farming guides but it is not built into the class guises if the class has the ability to do that(druid, warlock, DH to name a few) and it wasn't because you need a challenge while leveling in vanilla it was because there was a lack of quests in certain level ranges. And pulling 20 mobs with corruption, COA and Siphon life and not stopping running is not a challenge it was a necessity(once again poor game design)

[sam86]

yeah that's just BS

in vanilla rogues had like 5 different builds (seal fate backstab, prep backstab, hemo, combat and combat daggers) and all of them were good for something
mages also had liek 5 (deep fire, deep frost, elemental, arcane power fire and arcane power frost) and again, all good for something
warlocks had SM ruin, DM ruin, SL/SB SL/NF again, all good for something

and I could go on..

I can confirm that from TBC+, glad to see that this system was working even in vanilla too
Wrath however was the best (worst?) that it opened endless floods of weird specs

[Chaelexi]

except there isn't
there was a never ending argument about which is better for holy priest during entire TBC, go advanced spirit in disc tree or get circle of heal in holy instead, one give u a new very strong group-heal spell (back then there was almost no raid healing spells) or having mana since mana was serious problem to everyone, and it boiled out to literally each guild raid group
that one example i can name out in TBC, and wrath really opened the flood to insane builds for pve and pvp, a mage and hunter can spec aoe farming solo pve or go normal questing talent pve (also hunter had more options than mage, he was still worse and weaker, mage was able to gather farms for aoe), and i LOVED trying that to lvl, it was one of reasons that i literally re-lvled a mage just to check it

Mana a problem in BC.......my alt was a rest shaman put totems down spam rank 3 chain heal, it was easy as can be then. And right now you do have talents that are design around situations. Take demon hunter for example. You are looking for situational burst AOE you go Fel Barrage, you need consistent AOE you go Trail of Ruin, First Blood and Immo Aura. Or Destro lock where from single target to aoe you swap 3-4 talents again. Seems like your argument just fell flat on it's face.

[bufferunderrun]

Apples and oranges again. I also liked the illusion of choice during the early years of cookie cutter specs.

- - - Updated - - -



1% more crit and that 5 times, wow. So great. 3 core talents that actually change your playstyle while the rest is just minimalistic performance tuning. It was 90% placebo and you just won't admit it.

but the solution blizzard found is retarded they should have enlarged the talent tree, path of exile is a great example, isn't it full of 5% intellect/strength/dexterity? Yes it is but is fun to build up a character why same thing is not possible in wow?

Imho now that pvp has its own set of talent is possible to reimplement a pve tree like poe but the first requirement is that blizzard lose up a bit and stop being a control freak that always try to kill everything isn't aligned to "their way".

More choice guys more choices i don't even understand why this is not something peoples fight over with blizzard but even cheer when they remove them.

[sam86]

-snip-

the talk about old system is its entire existence up until it was dead totally in MoP, even Cata is more of old system than new one
So while counting old system stuck in vanilla, we also had argument of @shaunika123 claiming it wasn't for every spec, and i'd believe him but i - myself - even if i did play i know i can't comment on that since i thought throns talent were the tanking spec for druid :P

[ravell]

yeah that's just BS

in vanilla rogues had like 5 different builds (seal fate backstab, prep backstab, hemo, combat and combat daggers) and all of them were good for something
mages also had liek 5 (deep fire, deep frost, elemental, arcane power fire and arcane power frost) and again, all good for something
warlocks had SM ruin, DM ruin, SL/SB SL/NF again, all good for something

and I could go on..

Man! I miss rogue HEMOrrage build and mace stun lock build as well...good old days!

I miss also playing as a Shockadin on BGs and even dungeons! That was lot of fun...I wish they could do something like that.

[Chaelexi]

yeah that's just BS

in vanilla rogues had like 5 different builds (seal fate backstab, prep backstab, hemo, combat and combat daggers) and all of them were good for something
mages also had liek 5 (deep fire, deep frost, elemental, arcane power fire and arcane power frost) and again, all good for something
warlocks had SM ruin, DM ruin, SL/SB SL/NF again, all good for something

and I could go on..

Played warlock and there was 3 specs that had any use in Vanilla SM Ruin, DS Ruin for impoved healthstone and SL/NF for PVP and other coices were people doing wrong things, it does not make them good for something. But hey now as a DH I have 3 damage builds from one DPS spec that all play very differently from one and other. The is Demonic with Dark Slash, Demonic with Blade dance talents and Momentum. Demonic with dark slash is all about pooling for your DS window, Blade dance talents change the rotation by adding blade dance and not pooling and Momentum you have to manage you Momo uptime and pool fury for momentum dumps. And I could go on. It is the same between now and then it is just the got rid of the traps talents and the useless increase x by y talents that filled the old trees. THEY WERE NOT EXCITING BACK THEN......... Rose glasses need to be removed.

[Amali1232]

Wait, wait, wait. As somebody who played through the entirety of Vanilla hardcore (but has no desire to play on Classic, mind you), and considering the current lack of nuanced choice, it has to be said that the majority of people here are conflating the quality of talents and their respective viability for various specs with the underlying system design.

I felt like Legion is too limited, and as a PvP player, this is doubly true now that we can only pick 3 extra talents off the PvP menu. Vanilla talents being shit and needing a ton of work (e.g. make specs actually viable) and the system design of having a far deeper control over you class are two vastly different subjects.

The system was better. The implementation was dogshit.

[Kwaai]

I never swapped talents between fights in BC/Wrath/Cata.

I swap talents all the time now.

[Morbownz]

Neither. The old system was restricted in the sense that you would waste talent points trying to get that one big talent you had your eye on. The new talents are completely dull, all of the important spells are in your spell book, you just alter them for AoE or Single target with each boss, it literally comes down to numbers in the end and it doesn't really improve the issues with the original talent system from Vanilla.
Blizzard wanted to pull away from Cookie cutter spec's in PvE/PvP, which if my memory is correct was more of a TBC thing. Today, anyone that really cares just checks Warcraft logs and gets a full breakdown of the best performing spec's for each boss and then spec's accordingly.