Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #51301
    Quote Originally Posted by italian american View Post
    While you whip out 750 euros for nvidia 2080 gpu or something new, im paying only 550 bucks.

    Much better living conditions here than where you live. I moved here from italy 7 years ago and im loving every moment of it. #AmericanPower
    I almost chocked laughing from the example you gave ;-)

    World Happiness Report 2018 supports your conclusion that the US is a better place to live then Italy though. US is 18th, Italy is at 47th place. I live in the Netherlands (6th) and i wouldn't want to be found dead in the USA.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    We do not shoot each other all over the place. You are being misled by the over hyped media. You have a greater chance of being killed in a automobile accident here than being shot by a criminal.
    Son, i know you're persistent but you're not convincing me. I have (+/-) 2x more chance of being in a fatal traffic accident in your country compared to mine and 10-20x more chance to be shot (to death or not).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I have no fear of a tyrannical government to use my weapons on. I posses and carry a firearm for one main reason. Personal, family and home defense.
    You ain't stopping Trump with your pee-shooter.
    Last edited by Adolecent; 2018-09-21 at 07:13 PM.
    "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference."

    Elie Wiesel (1928 – 2016)

  2. #51302
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    Son, i know you're persistent but you're not convincing me. I have (+/-) 2x more chance of being in a fatal traffic accident in your country compared to mine and 10-20x more chance to be shot (to death or not).
    My father came over from the Netherlands decades ago. Certainly not for everyone, the USA, but a lot of the traffic/ gunfire is locale based. I would hope you wouldn't come here to live in the inner cities or the trailer parks, so it's really not a big thing. Stuff does seem to be getting worse this past decade, I'll grant you that, but guns haven't become more accessible in that time.

    In 1968, the 4473 (form to buy a gun) was created. It asked you a bunch of questions. In 94, they added the background check to actually see if your answers were true. There is currently the box for "has identified himself with " and the ID requirements, but it used to also have a box that said "is known to me"...
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  3. #51303
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The conclusion of the research is more research is required.

    My opinion of US social is problems is that you're a major trading partner and I'd rather not have you guys killing each other. And quite frankly, widespread gun use in the US partially stems from white people wanting to keep themselves safe from black people.

    Its appalling because self defense incidents occurring as often as it does implies widespread crime is happening. Just because it was stopped doesn't mean there wasn't an attempt.
    Such racists bullshit.

    Only about 10 - 15% of the population carries firearms for self defense. You are overreacting to the media reports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I almost chocked laughing from the example you gave ;-)

    World Happiness Report 2018 supports your conclusion that the US is a better place to live then Italy though. US is 18th, Italy is at 47th place. I live in the Netherlands (6th) and i wouldn't want to be found dead in the USA.


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    Son, i know you're persistent but you're not convincing me. I have (+/-) 2x more chance of being in a fatal traffic accident in your country compared to mine and 10-20x more chance to be shot (to death or not).




    You ain't stopping Trump with your pee-shooter.
    yeah, we know, this is your chance to bash the US, which is common on this forum.

    Son? Odds are, I am twice your age. You over 60? And it only stands to reason, the more automobiles in a country, the more likely you are to have a accident from them. Same goes for guns. But if it makes you that afraid, stay out.

    You are having issues with English? I did say I do not posses and carry my firearms out of fear of a tyrannical government. I felt the same way when Obama was President.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  4. #51304
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Such racists bullshit.

    Only about 10 - 15% of the population carries firearms for self defense. You are overreacting to the media reports.
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...gun-ownership/
    30% of the adult population owns a gun. Another 11% lives with someone who owns a gun.
    36% of the white adult population owns a gun. Another 13% lives with someone who owns a gun.
    48% of white adult men own a gun.

    71% of Urban and Sub-urban gun owners primarily own a gun for protection. 62% of Rural gun owners do.

  5. #51305
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...gun-ownership/
    30% of the adult population owns a gun. Another 11% lives with someone who owns a gun.
    36% of the white adult population owns a gun. Another 13% lives with someone who owns a gun.
    48% of white adult men own a gun.

    71% of Urban and Sub-urban gun owners primarily own a gun for protection. 62% of Rural gun owners do.
    Yes. But I was referring to those who carry ones out in the public. In Ohio, it is less than 15% who do. Which is about average for the US. Some States, it is less than 10%.
    The highest percentage of the states is Alabama and Indiana, with around 20% which do.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  6. #51306
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Yes. But I was referring to those who carry ones out in the public. In Ohio, it is less than 15% who do. Which is about average for the US. Some States, it is less than 10%.
    The highest percentage of the states is Alabama and Indiana, with around 20% which do.
    I was not referring to open carry in my statements regarding self-defense. Self-defense can happen on your own property where open carry does not apply.

  7. #51307
    What is an "assault weapon"? The term is emotionally charged and undefinable for a reason. Ignorance and "muh feels" is being manipulated in order to grant the totalitarians more power.

  8. #51308
    some one may have posted this in another thread but interesting.

    t's also unclear how he acquired the pistol since he couldn't legally purchase firearms. A search warrant unsealed Friday afternoon shows Tong had a cache of gun parts in his home, suggesting he may have built the pistol himself. Foulke said federal authorities were having trouble tracing the gun's origin, calling the weapon "unique.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/3-workers...152809013.html

  9. #51309
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    You are having issues with English? I did say I do not posses and carry my firearms out of fear of a tyrannical government. I felt the same way when Obama was President.
    Mabey you have an issue expressing yourself son.
    "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference."

    Elie Wiesel (1928 – 2016)

  10. #51310
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I was not referring to open carry in my statements regarding self-defense. Self-defense can happen on your own property where open carry does not apply.
    Fair enough. But even home invasions are not something likely to happen to any one here. And even those are mostly concentrated in certain high crime areas. But like a lot of unknown bad shit, best to be prepared if it does. There is no such thing as complete immunity to threats to a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    Mabey you have an issue expressing yourself son.
    And you are here not to have a serous discussion on the topic, but to troll? Come back when you make a comment which is related to the topic of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    some one may have posted this in another thread but interesting.

    t's also unclear how he acquired the pistol since he couldn't legally purchase firearms. A search warrant unsealed Friday afternoon shows Tong had a cache of gun parts in his home, suggesting he may have built the pistol himself. Foulke said federal authorities were having trouble tracing the gun's origin, calling the weapon "unique.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/3-workers...152809013.html
    There are firearms out in the public available for purchase from private individuals and the black markets. There needs to be stronger penalties for selling a firearm to a prohibited individual and all firearm sales should go thru a back ground check. But this is not the case sometimes.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  11. #51311
    Herald of the Titans Roxinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I almost chocked laughing from the example you gave ;-)

    World Happiness Report 2018 supports your conclusion that the US is a better place to live then Italy though. US is 18th, Italy is at 47th place. I live in the Netherlands (6th) and i wouldn't want to be found dead in the USA.


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    Son, i know you're persistent but you're not convincing me. I have (+/-) 2x more chance of being in a fatal traffic accident in your country compared to mine and 10-20x more chance to be shot (to death or not).




    You ain't stopping Trump with your pee-shooter.
    you have the reading comprehension of a 3 year old
    Last edited by Citizen T; 2018-09-22 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Well then get your shit together.
    Get it all together. And put it in a backpack. All your shit. So it’s together. And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in a shit museum, I don’t care what you do, you just gotta get it together.
    Get your shit together

  12. #51312
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Fair enough. But even home invasions are not something likely to happen to any one here. And even those are mostly concentrated in certain high crime areas. But like a lot of unknown bad shit, best to be prepared if it does. There is no such thing as complete immunity to threats to a person.

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    And you are here not to have a serous discussion on the topic, but to troll? Come back when you make a comment which is related to the topic of the thread.

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    There are firearms out in the public available for purchase from private individuals and the black markets. There needs to be stronger penalties for selling a firearm to a prohibited individual and all firearm sales should go thru a back ground check. But this is not the case sometimes.
    I understand that, older guns sold, some states you can sell between buyers with out a dealer involved inside state lines but this almost makes it sound like it's home made.

  13. #51313
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    I understand that, older guns sold, some states you can sell between buyers with out a dealer involved inside state lines but this almost makes it sound like it's home made.
    Sure, could be. Companies make 80% pistol frames just like they make 80% AR-15/10 lower receivers. Grab a drill and a jig, buy a barrel/slide and parts kit: homemade handgun.

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    An interesting read on the topic of defensive gun usage:

    A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use

    In April, criminologist Gary Kleck reported that he had uncovered evidence supporting his contention that Americans use firearms in self defense over 2 million a times a year. The survey he discovered had not been previously analyzed, but he reported that it matched what he found in the 1993 survey he conducted with Marc Gertz and published in 1995, known as the National Self-Defense Survey (NSDS).

    His new report was based on surveys conducted by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) survey in the years 1996-98. This finding was touted by many outlets—including Reason—as evidence in support of the utility of private gun ownership.

    Shortly after that study was released, however, Robert VerBruggen of National Review (who has been of inestimable help in thinking through these issues) tweeted that he noticed, by studying the raw survey data himself, that Kleck had mistaken what were in fact surveys limited to small numbers of states per year for a national survey, analogous to Kleck/Gertz's own national surveys.

    in direct response to queries from Reason, who first directly notified Kleck of his error, he worked through and has since issued a revised version of the paper, published as was the original as a working paper on the Social Science Research Network. In the new version, Kleck re-analyzes the BRFSS survey data accurately as limited to a small number of states, and ultimately concludes, when their surveys are analyzed in conjunction with his NSDS, that their surveys indicate likely over 1 million defensive uses of guns (DGUs) a year nationally, compared to the over 2 million of his own NSDS.

    Here's how Kleck got to that new conclusion. The BRFSS, as Kleck describes it in his paper, "are high-quality telephone surveys of very large probability samples of U.S. adults...even just the subset of four to seven state surveys that asked about DGU in 1996-1998 interviewed 3,197-4,500 adults, depending on the year. This is more people than were asked about this topic in any other surveys, other than the National Self-Defense Survey conducted in 1993 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), who asked DGU questions of 4,977 people." The BRFSS asked about defensive uses of guns in seven states in 1996, seven in 1997, and four in 1998.

    Kleck judged the "wording of the DGU question in the BRFSS surveys" as "also excellent, avoiding many problems with the wording that afflicted the DGU questions used in other surveys."

    The BRFSS results were designed to exclude "uses by military, police and others with firearm-related jobs" and "uses against animals." The survey was designed to garner "yes" answers as long as a gun was used in presumed self-defense in any location (not just the home), whether or not the gun was actually fired (as, per Kleck's survey, around 3/4 of the time one needn't fire the gun to have found it useful in deterring an intruder or attacker).

    Since Kleck's survey did not include Alaska and Hawaii and the BRFSS did (in 1996 and 1997 respectively), he kept them out of the comparison. The states for which a meaningful comparison could be made between his NSDS and this CDC survey, then, were, in 1996, Kentucky, Louisiana (also surveyed in 1998), Maryland, New Hampshire (also surveyed in 1997), New York, and West Virginia; in 1997, Colorado, Missouri, New Jersey (also surveyed in 1998), North Dakota, and Ohio; and in 1998, Montana and Pennsylvania.

    Kleck notes that it's simply impossible to extrapolate meaningfully from the small set of states surveyed over the course of those three years to a solid national DGU figure from the BRFSS itself: "We cannot directly apply these estimates to the U.S. because the sets of states do not constitute a probability sample of the U.S. The prevalence of DGU could be far higher in some states than in the nation as a whole if the states have higher-than-average rates of gun ownership and/or crime, or could be far lower if the set of states had lower gun ownership or crime rates."

    But he does think by comparing the national results from his NSDS to the results in the BRFSS-surveyed set of states in his NSDS you can make a tentative extrapolation (after adjusting for the fact that the BRFSS only asked the DGU question to households that had already said they had a gun, while his surveys "found that 21% of persons who reported a DGU had denied having a gun in their household at the time of the interview.")

    In the group of states (minus Alaska and Hawaii) that BRFSS surveyed over those three years, the BRFSS found raw numbers of 55 (1996), 29 (1997), and 33 (1998) DGUs.

    After a series of adjustments and weightings described at length in the paper, Kleck concludes the BRFSS survey indicates that the percentage of adults in gun-owning households who experienced a DGU in the states they surveyed were 1.33 percent for 1996, 0.89 percent for 1997, and 1.04 percent for 1998.

    Again, while a straight national extrapolation for the BRFSS data alone can't be meaningfully done, Kleck tries, presuming that the ratio of the national DGU rate over the rate in the specific group of states that BRFSS happened to survey found in his NSDS should hold for the BRFSS as well, to make a national DGU rate guess from the BRFSS data. He ends up calculating national percentage rates for adults in gun-owning households nationally of 0.59 percent based on the 1996 states, 0.81 percent based on the 1997 states, and 1.82 percent based on the 1998 states.

    After adjustments to get a guess for total adults, not just adults in gun-owning households, the range of total DGUs Kleck estimates for the nation with the above methods from the CDC's state-level surveys range from a low of 620,648 for 1996 to 1.9 million in 1998, for an average over the years of 1.1 million.

    In Kleck and Gertz's NSDS, 10, 8, and 4 "weighted past year DGU cases" were found in the states BRFSS surveyed in the years 1996, '97, and '98 respectively. Given that very small number of actual pre-extrapolation DGUs Kleck found in the states that both he and the BRFSS covered in 1998, just four, making extrapolative adjustments based on them might seem to overstate his case.

    As the adjustments work, for example, as spelled out for me initially by VerBruggen, had Kleck/Gertz found just two more DGUs in their surveys over the four 1998 states, the adjustments downward for the ratio of total U.S. DGUs over that group of states would be from 1.7 to 1.1, meaning that the national extrapolation for the BRFSS based on the NSDS for that year would be a whole number around 600,000 DGUs lower, and for that three-year average around 200,000 lower. That seems a lot of weight to place on such a tiny initial count. (There is also the wrinkle, as drawn out by economist Alex Tabarrok when discussing Kleck's first version of this paper, that with surveys regarding rare events, even a small percentage of liars, if the lies are distributed without any particular bias one way or the other, can very much overstate the phenomenon.)

    A CDC representative, when asked about why no study using or publicizing the raw data on this DGU survey was ever issued, a matter Kleck speculates on quite a bit, wrote merely that "Data from the optional module data [asking the questions for those years' BRFSS were optional to the states, which is why only a few did] were made available to the public to analyze via the BRFSS public use dataset online" which is where Kleck eventually found them, though CDC never otherwise drew any conclusions from them in any publication nor drew anyone's attention to them.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  14. #51314
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Sure, could be. Companies make 80% pistol frames just like they make 80% AR-15/10 lower receivers. Grab a drill and a jig, buy a barrel/slide and parts kit: homemade handgun.

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    [/B]
    Seems if someone wants to get one it's not hard ( the plastic parts easy enough to print and the main parts some basic machinery) and as the Tech gets better even easier.

  15. #51315
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    some one may have posted this in another thread but interesting.

    t's also unclear how he acquired the pistol since he couldn't legally purchase firearms. A search warrant unsealed Friday afternoon shows Tong had a cache of gun parts in his home, suggesting he may have built the pistol himself. Foulke said federal authorities were having trouble tracing the gun's origin, calling the weapon "unique.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/3-workers...152809013.html
    Odd case, given the terminology. "calling the weapon unique" sort of undermines things. ATF knows what 80% frames are, they're the ones that okay them as non firearms. If it's made from parts and isn't an actual purchased firearm, there'd be no problem tracing it since they wouldn't trace it. There's also some firearms which are serial numbered on the frame, slide and barrel (since some countries register the slide or barrel or whatever instead of what the USA does as a frame), so maybe it's a frame with a different number than the slide and barrel or something, but ATF should know how to handle that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Seems if someone wants to get one it's not hard ( the plastic parts easy enough to print and the main parts some basic machinery) and as the Tech gets better even easier.
    If you're actually interested in such things, there's articles about some of the bazaars overseas where back street makers crank out copies of all sorts of firearms. In the USA it's not as common since we can just buy real guns. Lately, "80% frames" have become popular, which are basic frames that aren't finished (like none of the holes are drilled or rails milled or whatnot).

    As I said in my post though, ATF knows the 80% market, they wouldn't call them "unique".
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  16. #51316
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Odd case, given the terminology. "calling the weapon unique" sort of undermines things. ATF knows what 80% frames are, they're the ones that okay them as non firearms. If it's made from parts and isn't an actual purchased firearm, there'd be no problem tracing it since they wouldn't trace it. There's also some firearms which are serial numbered on the frame, slide and barrel (since some countries register the slide or barrel or whatever instead of what the USA does as a frame), so maybe it's a frame with a different number than the slide and barrel or something, but ATF should know how to handle that.

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    If you're actually interested in such things, there's articles about some of the bazaars overseas where back street makers crank out copies of all sorts of firearms. In the USA it's not as common since we can just buy real guns. Lately, "80% frames" have become popular, which are basic frames that aren't finished (like none of the holes are drilled or rails milled or whatnot).

    As I said in my post though, ATF knows the 80% market, they wouldn't call them "unique".
    so this may be an entirely home made gun. I know people with Machine shops that would have the know how easily to make them.

  17. #51317
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    so this may be an entirely home made gun. I know people with Machine shops that would have the know how easily to make them.
    Really, it's not like a home made gun is hard to make from scratch. Sure, the barrel should be well made if you want any sort of accuracy, but otherwise supplies can be bought at Lowes.

    It still seems like if you put some parts together and made a gun with a rubber band and a couple pipes or whatever, ATF should look at it and go "this is made by a couple pipes and a rubber band" not "we're having trouble tracing it due to unique". ATF does have some shoddy information at times though, and some of their agents are just not knowledgeable for an agency dedicated to the task. Aside from the shoelace machinegun, and them going back and forth on silencer parts.

    OOh, or that time they seized all those pellet guns because they thought they were machineguns!!!
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  18. #51318
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Really, it's not like a home made gun is hard to make from scratch. Sure, the barrel should be well made if you want any sort of accuracy, but otherwise supplies can be bought at Lowes.

    It still seems like if you put some parts together and made a gun with a rubber band and a couple pipes or whatever, ATF should look at it and go "this is made by a couple pipes and a rubber band" not "we're having trouble tracing it due to unique". ATF does have some shoddy information at times though, and some of their agents are just not knowledgeable for an agency dedicated to the task. Aside from the shoelace machinegun, and them going back and forth on silencer parts.

    OOh, or that time they seized all those pellet guns because they thought they were machineguns!!!
    If it was a simple zip gun I doubt they would have called it unique, at one time Pellet guns were more powerful than the guns held by the armies (look at the one Lewis and Clark took with them)

  19. #51319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    If it was a simple zip gun I doubt they would have called it unique, at one time Pellet guns were more powerful than the guns held by the armies (look at the one Lewis and Clark took with them)
    These were a big shipment of airsoft guns that some ATF agents seized as illegal machineguns and then fought it for a while, doubling down on their error until finally having to release them to the importer.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  20. #51320
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodaline View Post
    Yes, that is the point. It IS part of a larger sentence, however, the fundamental part of the Amendment is the independent clause of



    It does not matter why other than that's the reason for it. Here's an example. Let's say I am setting up a government on my island, and I like you.
    In the Kodaline Constitution it says:



    The dependent clause talks about your johnson, the independent clause talks about you getting a hooker. Now, observe this:






    All of those things, it doesn't matter, you get a hooker a day, forever.

    Same thing with the 2nd Amendment, it absolutely does not matter WHY it is in the Constitution, all that matters is that is IS. Since it IS, it cannot be judicially legislated legally, and the only thing to do is pass another Amendment. This is why the 1903 Act you keep citing, which doesn't even say what you claim it says, absolutely does not matter, even if it did say what you imply. Laws can be BASED OFF the Constitution (in fact, all are), but they CANNOT modify it unless you ratify an amendment, and that takes 75% of the states voting for it. This was designed this way because of people like you, who refuse to see the truth, and try to get others to believe their shit.

    I think I have won, now. Can I get an independent confirmation that Daelak has been destroyed and needs to shut up?
    A law can easily contradict or be passed without recourse if the other branches of government don't contest it. It's exactly why the Militia Acts have not been challenged on constitutional grounds, because the people have voluntarily superseded the 2nd amendment language and federalized control of well regulated militias.

    You can deflect and ignore the rest of the language of the 2nd amendment all you want, your ideological predecessors have done the exact same thing for decades, but the constitution is crystal clear on having the people's ability to assemble community-based militias shall not be infringed. If they said what you wanted the 2nd amendment to say, They would have done so; but since proper functioning militias were one of the overriding reasons why the defeated the world's largest superpower at the time, they put it in context of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    umm no even in the paper work at the time the Militia was every able body person and you still didn't answer my question who trains equips and holds the guns for the "militia if it's not meaning for people just to have their own? and again properly function for them was for all free man to be armed and ready to come to the defence of the state (or against the state to keep it free)
    Right, a militia, not a well regulated one, considered all men a part of it. However to become a proper functioning militia, the community must maintain and train them, equip them, and afford them uniforms, just like what occurred during the revolutionary war. The communities fund and maintain their own militias, definitely not the state, and never ever be subject to federalization, as they are now.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

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