Brett Kavanaugh Should be Impeached

[Spectral]

It's insane that we still have to deal with "X story element not being perfectly clear means it's not real" bullshit in this day and age. After the #MeToo movement of all things. Even Spectral, who I would still expect to be smarter than that despite his usual partisanship, has joined in on it.

For clarity's sake, I have no idea what happened those decades ago. There's nothing at all to go on. Nothing about her story strikes me as inherently implausible, since that sort of assault happens time and again all over the country. Nothing about having forgotten a bunch of details strikes me as particularly implausible, although it certainly does call the reality that memories are tenuous. The ephemeral nature is going to be a concern in any sort of report from 30+ years on without much that could even potentially corroborate any version of events.

What I've commented on isn't what happened, but whether Ford is behaving like I'd expect someone that thought they were telling the truth to behave. At this stage, I don't think she is doing so - she was invited to speak and replied with a set of conditions that read like an invitation to turn her demands down.

I'll certainly grant that it's weak Bayesian evidence though. Her actions are just about as consistent with being honest and genuinely reluctant as they are with being unsure and concerned that she'll look dishonest.

[BrerBear]

Well, well, well. Isn't this an interesting development this evening. From the Washington Post, "Kavanaugh ally says he did not communicate with White House or Supreme Court nominee about theory of another attacker".

Check this little tidbit.

On Sunday, Ford noticed that — even before her name became public — Whelan appeared to be seeking information about her.

That morning, Ford alerted an associate via email that Whelan had looked at her LinkedIn page, according to the email, which was reviewed by The Post. LinkedIn allows some subscribers to see who views their pages. Ford sent the email about 90 minutes after The Post shared her name with a White House spokesman and hours before her identity was revealed in a story posted on its website.

A White House spokesman said Friday that neither Kavanaugh nor anyone in the White House gave Ford’s name to Whelan before it was disclosed by The Post. Whelan did not respond to a request for comment on how he first learned of Ford’s identity.

Kavanaugh and his allies have privately discussed mounting a defense that would not question whether an incident involving Ford happened, but instead would raise doubts that the attacker was Kavanaugh, The Post reported Thursday.

So, somehow hours before Ford's name came out in the Washington Post story, when the Post had only contacted the White House, Ed Whelan was already checking out Ford's LinkedIn page. And the Whelan starts the "other guy" conspiracy investigation that the White House had been circulating.

Someone's got some splainin' to do.

[Kiri]

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Got a cite for that, Nostradamus?

Don't expect too much from this hit and run.
Though what I do find interesting (and by that I mean hypocritical) is how people like Jeezy all harp on the 'She doesn't remember something decades ago properly, so obviously she is lying', while cheering on the "I don't remember" squad that Trump calls a cabinet.

[Dacien]

The committee vote on Kavanaugh will happen on Monday if Ford's attorneys do not respond to their hearing offer by 10 PM tonight.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/s...69288579227648

[Edge-]

The committee vote on Kavanaugh will happen on Monday if Ford's attorneys do not respond to their hearing offer by 10 PM tonight.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/s...69288579227648

It's impressive the Republicans are still determined to rush this rather than even pretend like they're going to take her accusations credibly.

They have until the end of the year even if they lose the Senate in the midterms, they can spend a week or two letting the FBI look into it.

[Dacien]

It's impressive the Republicans are still determined to rush this rather than even pretend like they're going to take her accusations credibly.

I'm more shocked that Ford continues to demur at the offer to tell her story in sworn testimony about the man who attacked her and stands to be a Supreme Court Justice. I don't understand why it's like pulling teeth to get her to testify.

[Edge-]

I'm more shocked that Ford continues to demur at the offer to tell her story in sworn testimony about the man who attacked her and stands to be a Supreme Court Justice. I don't understand why it's like pulling teeth to get her to testify.

I'm not. We've seen what happens if you testify in front of congress about this with Anita Hill, I don't blame her for not wanting to go through the same kind of humiliation even behind doors.

It's hard because it's difficult to talk about traumatizing sexual assaults, something you'll hear echoed time and time again by victim after victim.

[Dacien]

I'm not. We've seen what happens if you testify in front of congress about this with Anita Hill, I don't blame her for not wanting to go through the same kind of humiliation even behind doors.

It's hard because it's difficult to talk about traumatizing sexual assaults, something you'll hear echoed time and time again by victim after victim.

Well, accusing Kavanaugh of attempted rape and then crouching in a defensive position isn't going to fly. She needs to testify.

[Edge-]

Well, accusing Kavanaugh of attempted rape and then crouching in a defensive position isn't going to fly. She needs to testify.

Agreed. But I don't think her asking for a FBI investigation - something that were she found to be intentionally lying would put her in considerable legal jeopardy and we've seen doesn't necessarily take too long - is asking too much.

Again - this is a man who is being nominated for a lifetime position to the highest court in the land. This is a man who, after her allegations, is discovered to have a less than stellar pattern of behavior in his youth that lends credibility to her allegations. Do they prove them? Absolutely not.

But I'd think that Republicans and every American would want to exercise an overabundance of caution even if there was the slightest chance that someone who attempted to rape a girl when he was a teenager would end up with one of the most powerful positions in the country for the rest of his life.

Especially, you know, with the heavy focus on morality etc. from the Republican party.

[Smitzelplix]

Agreed. But I don't think her asking for a FBI investigation - something that were she found to be intentionally lying would put her in considerable legal jeopardy and we've seen doesn't necessarily take too long - is asking too much.

Again - this is a man who is being nominated for a lifetime position to the highest court in the land. This is a man who, after her allegations, is discovered to have a less than stellar pattern of behavior in his youth that lends credibility to her allegations. Do they prove them? Absolutely not.

But I'd think that Republicans and every American would want to exercise an overabundance of caution even if there was the slightest chance that someone who attempted to rape a girl when he was a teenager would end up with one of the most powerful positions in the country for the rest of his life.

Especially, you know, with the heavy focus on morality etc. from the Republican party.

Pfftttt ha ha ha ha ha. They keep shooting their moral high horse again and again, one day the carcass of that horse is going to fall on top of them.

[Dacien]

Agreed. But I don't think her asking for a FBI investigation - something that were she found to be intentionally lying would put her in considerable legal jeopardy and we've seen doesn't necessarily take too long - is asking too much.

These are the same consequences she'd be facing by lying in sworn testimony before the Senate Committee. If the FBI would investigate it I'd be happy to see that done, but there's absolutely no reason that one needs to come before the other. In fact, having sworn testimony about what happened would help the FBI investigation narrow their focus. I don't see any reasonable argument that she should wait to testify until after an FBI investigation.

Again - this is a man who is being nominated for a lifetime position to the highest court in the land. This is a man who, after her allegations, is discovered to have a less than stellar pattern of behavior in his youth that lends credibility to her allegations. Do they prove them? Absolutely not.

But I'd think that Republicans and every American would want to exercise an overabundance of caution even if there was the slightest chance that someone who attempted to rape a girl when he was a teenager would end up with one of the most powerful positions in the country for the rest of his life.

Especially, you know, with the heavy focus on morality etc. from the Republican party.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. If he's found to be guilty of this, he should not be seated, and we should be exercising every avenue to find the truth. As I said, I'd be glad to hear that the FBI was willing to initiate a new background check involving these allegations (since as far as I understand it, a criminal investigation is simply not within their purview in this case). Everyone involved deserves the truth to be known.

[Shadowferal]

The committee vote on Kavanaugh will happen on Monday if Ford's attorneys do not respond to their hearing offer by 10 PM tonight. https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/s...69288579227648

Murkowski says she’ll wait until Ford testifies before making decision on Kavanaugh

"What I have to do next week, assuming that the hearing moves forward, which I am truly hoping it does, that is the end, hopefully, of this vetting process that I have been engaged in ... That's when I will make my determination in regards to Judge Kavanaugh," Murkowski told CNN.

[Warning]

I'm more shocked that Ford continues to demur at the offer to tell her story in sworn testimony about the man who attacked her and stands to be a Supreme Court Justice. I don't understand why it's like pulling teeth to get her to testify.

You haven't got a clue what your talking about. This isn't some kind of dumbass game. If this happened you're talking about a normal person who suffered a significant trauma going out and speaking under the public scrutiny of millions of people for the first time while being grilled by some of the most powerful people in the country, many of whom will be out to destroy her. Simultaneously she will invite a shitstorm of antagonism from insane trump supporters, fox news, breitbart and every insane pro trump blogger out there, none of whom will shy away from twisting her words or outright lying about her. Honestly you would do well to just be quiet at this point, it's truly pathetic and disgusting the stuff you defend and shocking how little thought goes into everything you write.

[Dacien]

You haven't got a clue what your talking about. This isn't some kind of dumbass game. If this happened you're talking about a normal person who suffered a significant trauma going out and speaking under the public scrutiny of millions of people for the first time while being grilled by some of the most powerful people in the country, many of whom will be out to destroy her. Simultaneously she will invite a shitstorm of antagonism from insane trump supporters, fox news, breitbart and every insane pro trump blogger out there, none of whom will shy away from twisting her words or outright lying about her. Honestly you would do well to just be quiet at this point, it's truly pathetic and disgusting the stuff you defend and shocking how little thought goes into everything you write.

I'd be willing to bet that the man being accused on the national stage of attempted rape is thinking the exact same thing.

[Grapemask]

I'd be willing to bet that the man being accused on the national stage of attempted rape is thinking the exact same thing.

I'm going to guess that the trauma and pressure on him is more than a little bit less. I don't even understand a mind that could think otherwise, and how far removed that person would be from victims in this case. I mean, once again, apparently this whole #MeToo thing was just another "whoosh."

[Shadowmelded]

Ed Whelan's ridiculous twitter theory is one thing, but Kavanaugh claiming she might be mistaking him for someone else is perfectly reasonable.

Yet they know exactly who the accuser is before her name was made public?

Again, she's accusing Kavanaugh of a very serious crime that will follow him no matter where he goes after this. Unless we get to the truth, he will always be a sex criminal in the minds of the American public, and that is just ghastly. That is the worst sort of burden to carry.

If only you could apply some of this empathy to the woman who's had to carry this burden around for 30~ years.

The time for extreme sensitivity at the cost of getting to the truth is coming to an end.

Gross.

[Dacien]

I'm going to guess that the trauma and pressure on him is more than a little bit less. I don't even understand a mind that could think otherwise, and how far removed that person would be from victims in this case. I mean, once again, apparently this whole #MeToo thing was just another "whoosh."

If you send a letter to a Senator on the committee that is going to vote on a nominee claiming he tried to rape you, and it leaks, that's the situation you find yourself in. It's a very serious allegation. It takes a man from a once-in-a-lifetime dream job to a lifelong nightmare of being known as the man who couldn't be a Supreme Court judge because we're just not sure if he tried to rape someone or not. Now that these allegations are being aired out in public, she either needs to recant, or testify. The accused deserves to be vindicated if he's innocent.

The stakes are high for both of them.

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If only you could apply some of this empathy to the woman who's had to carry this burden around for 30~ years.

I think she deserves justice, and so does Kavanaugh.

Gross.

That sentiment right there is how I feel about accusing someone of attempted rape and then refusing to testify, and instead letting the accusation just marinate in the public consciousness. And actually being obstinate about it, issuing absurd conditions and demands.

And furthermore, is sensitivity more important than the truth? Is that your position? That because this woman claims Kavanaugh tried to rape her, we really can't dig too hard to exonerate him and ask for testimony because that would be insensitive to the pain she's dealing with? I understand the sentiment and where it's coming from, but that's just balderdash.

[Shadowmelded]

That sentiment right there is how I feel about accusing someone of attempted rape and then refusing to testify, and instead letting the accusation just marinate in the public consciousness.

And I think that speaks volumes that you're either unwilling or incapable of considering why she might be reluctant to testify. To then insinuate malice on top of that and intransigence when she's been requesting the FBI investigate since basically the same day the story broke is just, eugh gross.

And furthermore, is sensitivity more important than the truth? Is that your position?

Spare me the strawman.

That because this woman claims Kavanaugh tried to rape her, we really can't dig too hard to exonerate him and ask for testimony because that would be insensitive to the pain she's dealing with? I understand the sentiment and where it's coming from, but that's just balderdash.

For a start, there hasn't been any "extreme" sensitivity. There's barely been any sensitivity. The GOP wanted her to testify with Kavanaugh in the room. If you don't understand how that can be traumatizing and lead to her being unable to accurately provide testimony (you know, since the truth is apparently important enough to discard her experiences) then I don't know what to tell you other than take a step back from the partisan dash to confirm Kavanaugh and get some perspective.

[Dacien]

And I think that speaks volumes that you're either unwilling or incapable of considering why she might be reluctant to testify. To then insinuate malice on top of that and intransigence when she's been requesting the FBI investigate since basically the same day the story broke is just, eugh gross.

Well that's fine, and I'm really sorry to hear you say that. But the stakes are too high if Kavanaugh is innocent. And you do seem to be operating under the premise that she was absolutely attacked by Kavanaugh, when we can't possibly know that with the information we have. How could we? With the details provided we can't possibly know the truth.

Spare me the strawman.

I think I represented your reply accurately:

The time for extreme sensitivity at the cost of getting to the truth is coming to an end.

Gross.

For a start, there hasn't been any "extreme" sensitivity. There's barely been any sensitivity. The GOP wanted her to testify with Kavanaugh in the room. If you don't understand how that can be traumatizing and lead to her being unable to accurately provide testimony (you know, since the truth is apparently important enough to discard her experiences) then I don't know what to tell you other than take a step back from the partisan dash to confirm Kavanaugh and get some perspective.

He has a Constitutional right to confront his accuser. Look inside any courtroom with the same allegations and the defendant sits there while the victim gets up on the stand. It's how it works in this country.

[Shadowmelded]

Well that's fine, and I'm really sorry to hear you say that. But the stakes are too high if Kavanaugh is innocent. And you do seem to be operating under the premise that she was absolutely attacked by Kavanaugh, when we can't possibly know that with the information we have. How could we? With the details provided we can't possibly know the truth.

Again, your concern seems to only be about Kavanaugh. You don't need to accept her accusations to take them seriously and treat her fairly because you're right, we don't know, so why be cavalier about her concerns and experiences?

I think I represented your reply accurately:

Then let me elaborate; mischaracterizing precaution as extreme sensitivity and advocating an adversarial approach to someone who may have suffered serious trauma is gross. Nothing about that prioritizes "extreme sensitivity" over the truth; they're not mutually exclusive (and as I've already said, to pretend she's been treated with extreme sensitivity is ridiculous)

He has a Constitutional right to confront his accuser. Look inside any courtroom with the same allegations and the defendant sits there while the victim gets up on the stand. It's how it works in this country.

There's the right to a defence but there's no right to confront your accuser. This also isn't a courtroom.