The story was right in front of us!!

[Enrif]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the four major bfa characters are taken directly from the End Time cata instance. Whether Blizzard had this planned all along since 4.3 or they decided to revive it for bfa is up for debate. But if Blizzard had the forethought to plan the storyline that far in advance then all credit to them.

And if you think back. Baine was an odd choice for that dungeon back then. He had just become the leader of the Tauren. Not much development time for him. even until right now, he only was build upon a bit during MoP and only starting with the end of Legion cinematic and now as part of the horde story in Zandalar gets he into the center of the story

[Torto]

And if you think back. Baine was an odd choice for that dungeon back then. He had just become the leader of the Tauren. Not much development time for him. even until right now, he only was build upon a bit during MoP and only starting with the end of Legion cinematic and now as part of the horde story in Zandalar gets he into the center of the story

I remember the first time I did the dungeon I thought all four characters were a very odd and random choices. Admittedly I wasn't that deep into the lore but I thought is strange other more prominent characters for the cata expansion would have made more sense. Especially Jaina and Tyrande who were peripheral in that expansion.

[Enrif]

Let's look into this further

why weren't other prominent characters not in the endtime dungeon?`

Garrosh? - dead
Varian? - dead
Vol'Jin? - dead
Thrall? - retired...?
Genn? - still alive, but was a new character back then
Gallywix? - still alive, but was a new character back then
Velen? - Wasn't that prominent at that, time. Last appearence was in Sunwell
Lor'Themar? - well....?
Muradin/Moira? - they were just re established characters, similar to Baine, so they could have been here
Gelbin? - he is a boss in the upcoming Zuldazar Raid. He might not survive....
Anduin? - was still just a child back then
Malfurion? - still alive. But nearly got killed. Maybe in another timeline he wasn't that lucky?
Nathanos? - wasn't a big character back then

Anyone i'm missing?

[Tiwack]

Damn.. this is actually a good find.. What if the Horde getting the Maghar was actually the work of the beginning of the infinite dragonflight?

Plausible. The timeways are definitely getting very scrambled lately, don't forget the Chromie scenarios

[EbaumsTipster]

This SCREAMS "Saurfang dies to motivate Baine"

[plz delete account]

It would certainly be neat to see Sylvie, Jaina and Tyrande -especially Tyrande- steer out of harm's way and make room for new blood, especially on Horde side. Jaina may be aligned with Alliance atm, but I cannot shake the feeling that she's a wild card ready to lay waste on anyone who stops her thirst for revenge. As for Tyrande, I think that even Allies will concede that she's one of the worst Ally leaders, cringeworthy to no end, militarily unfit and with the diplomatic skills of a potato. Make NEs go back to their WC3 rendition: savage, isolationists and xenophobic. Gogogo Shandris as new PotM

Taliesin, is that you?

- - - Updated - - -

Ontopic: interesting theorycrafting here.

[Kul Tiras]

Nice catch OP. On a totally unrelated note, anyone mind paying for my D2: Forsaken expansion?

[Count Zero]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the four major bfa characters are taken directly from the End Time cata instance. Whether Blizzard had this planned all along since 4.3 or they decided to revive it for bfa is up for debate. But if Blizzard had the forethought to plan the storyline that far in advance then all credit to them.

Garrosh's story spanned BC->WoD. Cata->BFA is definitely plausible.

[rcshaggy]

I really they add some of the things from Whispers of the Old Gods too for Battle for Azeroth...
Can have a lot of Old Gold influenced corrupted creatures, and other stuff as well...

Yeah...
I wouldn't mind seeing a End of Time thing too...

[Zandalariprelate]

The Hour of Twilight could probably still happen. It just refers to the ultimate victory of the old gods, probably has more than one trigger.

Wrong, Murozond tell us the "hour of twilight" aka a desolated Azeroth is a blessing compared with the victory of the old gods which is the void titan azeroth, but i could see blizzard using old ideas they get from the previous expansions

[Logwyn]

Murozond about the End Times dungeon



and what Nozdormu sais after the fight



And N'zoth is active. Perfect time to put a dragon aspect to madness!

If you are the time lord... I'm sure you can see all time lines...

[ro9ue]

Patch 4.3 Dungeons Preview!

"Echo of Sylvanas: Spawned from shattered timeways and cloistered within the Ruby Dragonshrine, a maddened fragment of the Forsaken's leader, Sylvanas Windrunner, waits restlessly. Having lost everything and unable to find peace, this tormented echo aches for a chance to unleash her dark fury at anything still living within these barren, time-twisted wastes.

Echo of Tyrande: Once high priestess of Elune and leader of the night elves, this time-twisted fragment of Tyrande Whisperwind now wanders the desolate future of Azeroth. Enveloped by eternal midnight, she is forever separated from the comforting light of Elune and torn by questions about why her goddess did nothing to put an end to such madness.

Echo of Jaina: The tormented fragment of Jaina Proudmoore has been split and infused within the shattered pieces of her staff. To restore balance to the timeways, this echo must be defeated. However, the devastating magical power possessed by the once-proud ruler of Theramore is hardly lost to her time-havocked spectre. In this future Azeroth, she is only divided, and waiting....

Echo of Baine: Enraged by his failure to protect the world and, most importantly, the Horde, this time-ravaged shade of Baine Bloodhoof lingers within the ruins of the Obsidian Dragonshrine. Although he's still as powerful as the tauren high chieftain from the present, within this shattered future Azeroth, this guilt-ridden echo is little more than a discordant vessel of unquenchable malice and anger."

This is where the night warrior Tyrande comes from! And Sylvannas clearly loses leadership of the Horde!
At least we know Jaina and Baine won't die

I think about this the other day, check out my speculation on it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Dragon-Aspects

[Destinas]

There are things that don't match up well about this theory (considering that Tyrande is actually getting closer to Elune in 8.1). But, it's an interesting read nonetheless, and it does seem similar on a surface level.

This isn't a future that actually happens though. End Time is from another timeway where we fail to stop Ultraxion from bringing in the Hour of Twilight.

And even then, it wasn't a "true" timeway - it was created and named by Murozond, because he apparently saw something far worse than the events of the Dragon Soul raid.

The "End Time," I once called this place. I had not seen, by then; I did not know. You hope to... what? Stop me, here? Change the fate I worked so tirelessly to weave?

You crawl unwitting, like a blind, writhing worm, towards endless madness and despair. I have witnessed the true End Time. This? This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

huh!

interesting. And, Anachronos, the son of Nozdormu/Murozond helped the Horde....

maybe the next step is not voidlords, but the infinite dragons?

Don't forget that random Black Empire drop we'd gotten from Ziridomi in Silithus...

[De Lupe]

And N'zoth is active. Perfect time to put a dragon aspect to madness!

NOOOOO! Stay away from my Nozzy! Nozdormu, Ebonhorn, and Chromie are off limits. Every other dragon is fair game! You can have Alexstraza! I hear she has a lot of life in her.

[Malikath]

I really they add some of the things from Whispers of the Old Gods too for Battle for Azeroth...
Can have a lot of Old Gold influenced corrupted creatures, and other stuff as well...

Yeah...
I wouldn't mind seeing a End of Time thing too...

everyone at black rook hold is undead.

[Mixxy]

Patch 4.3 Dungeons Preview!

"Echo of Sylvanas: Spawned from shattered timeways and cloistered within the Ruby Dragonshrine, a maddened fragment of the Forsaken's leader, Sylvanas Windrunner, waits restlessly. Having lost everything and unable to find peace, this tormented echo aches for a chance to unleash her dark fury at anything still living within these barren, time-twisted wastes.

Echo of Tyrande: Once high priestess of Elune and leader of the night elves, this time-twisted fragment of Tyrande Whisperwind now wanders the desolate future of Azeroth. Enveloped by eternal midnight, she is forever separated from the comforting light of Elune and torn by questions about why her goddess did nothing to put an end to such madness.

Echo of Jaina: The tormented fragment of Jaina Proudmoore has been split and infused within the shattered pieces of her staff. To restore balance to the timeways, this echo must be defeated. However, the devastating magical power possessed by the once-proud ruler of Theramore is hardly lost to her time-havocked spectre. In this future Azeroth, she is only divided, and waiting....

Echo of Baine: Enraged by his failure to protect the world and, most importantly, the Horde, this time-ravaged shade of Baine Bloodhoof lingers within the ruins of the Obsidian Dragonshrine. Although he's still as powerful as the tauren high chieftain from the present, within this shattered future Azeroth, this guilt-ridden echo is little more than a discordant vessel of unquenchable malice and anger."

This is where the night warrior Tyrande comes from! And Sylvannas clearly loses leadership of the Horde!
At least we know Jaina and Baine won't die

I don't understand...

"Sylvanas lost the Horde."
"Tyrande lost Elune."
"Jaina something-something."
"Baine lost the Horde."

There's nothing shocking or surprising here. No secret hints or foreshadowing. It's literally just bog-standard "These people lost everything" flavour text from a post-apocalyptic future.
There's nothing about Sylvanas being the Warchief, nothing about Jaina reclaiming Kul'Tiras, nothing about Tyrande's little ascension ritual thingie. Ya'll are just reading too much into it.

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Oh, also, if people don't remember. here some quotes from the dragon souls raid, which End Time was part of story wise

Sure am glad you bolded all the N'Zoths there. Never would have connected those dots otherwise.

[Boogieknight]

This isn't a future that actually happens though. End Time is from another timeway where we fail to stop Ultraxion from bringing in the Hour of Twilight.

Well, this very specific future isn't guaranteed, but it is how it will end. Nozdormu was shown his own death when becoming the aspect of time in some Odin parallel to show him that he can't escape what will happen and his job was to protect and ensure this one true future that must come to pass even thought it means his death. He will fall to madness and we will have to kill him regardless of what timeline it is.

Also if you wanna take this rabbit hole deeper into crazy theories Murozond and the Infinite dragonflight are hinted to be doing this stuff all along solely to prevent the true evil that will bring what may be an event worse than the hour of twilight. They could have been doing all this to prevent a fate so bad that the rule of the old gods is a better comparison. They could have been trying specifically to stop the complete death of the planet and all life upon it or worse and the one individual repsonsible for it: Warchief Sylvanas.

Everything they did ends with no Sylvanas.
Prevent the opening of the dark portal: no orcs > no horde > no Sylvanas as warchief
Prevent Thrall from escaping Durnholde: no horde > no Sylvanas warchief
Prevent Arthas from surviving the culling of Stratholme: no meeting with Mal'ganis > no travel to northrend > no lich king > no scourge > no Sylvanas

It may just be coincidental, but broadcast text from the new Vol'jin stuff has these lines

• Ah, my young friend. Death be... dark. Me memory... not be what it once was.
• Da memory, it be denied me by da shadows. Shadows... dat... dat be comin' for ya! Watch out!
• I remember dyin'. I remember glimpsin' da Other Side.
• Dere was a presence. Somethin' movin' in da shadows. Somethin' powerful.
• I remember it takin' me somewhere, but da memory of where be hidden from me. Ta keep me from sharin' da truth...

Which seem eerily similar to these lines from the Sylvanas short story Edge of Night when she committed suicide after the death of Arthas

How had she gotten here? She couldn't remember. Had she been killed by Arthas? Had she committed suicide? Had she been sent to judgment by the Val'kyr? Time was meaningless here. Her whole life seemed not a series of events but a single instant, a pinpoint flash of consciousness in an infinite void.

She saw only darkness.

There were others in the darkness. Things she didn't recognize, because nothing so terrible could exist in the world of the living.

It's possible that wherever Sylvanas went after her death is where Vol'jin was taken as well, and that whatever was in that darkness is what wanted him to make her warchief. And after her experiences there she'll burn the world to ash solely to never return there and this will usher in the future Murozond was trying to prevent. Just my 2 copper on the whole thing.

[Deleted]

Sorry OP, but this is desperate speculation at best that sounds like something anyone on the Horde hate brigade would post to try to prove themselves right. All of the descriptions of each of these characters are so vague they could have happened at any time whatsoever after the events of Cataclysm, and there is nothing within them at all that specifically refers to the events happening now in BFA.

[vitor210]

Wonderful, so it seems even though we traveled to the Hour of Twilight event and suposedly prevented it, we're still going there on our timeline. Makes you wonder that, in fact, no matter what you do the future is set in stone