[Speculation] Saurfang's breaking out, boys.

[Bigby]

The Alliance seems unlikely due to Saint Anduin but possible.

Sylvanas is the easy answer.

A third party is most interesting, but who would want him dead? Someone who benefits from a Horde that is either united, or rallied behind Sylvanas. I can't see any such party in the story currently. Definitely not N'zoth, that's for sure.

Only third party would be agents of whomever set up Sylvanas up as Warchief, whether she knows it or not.

Before the Storm sets the precedent up that she's a massive control freak who gets enraged when even people who all but worship her decide to look after themselves when she's not there. After finding out Saurfang didn't escape with the Zandalar bunch, it's absolutely in-character of her to send people after him.

[Deleted]

Dunno, their almost as bad as the delusional fanboys who think having a genocidal monster as a leader is a good thing and won't cause disdain within a faction leading to civil war, all because they have a thing for violent sociopaths in power.
Why it's almost like such people think that kind of leadership is completely sustainable forever.

Unlike your ilk, i prefer not to play a red alliance. People like you ruin the story of WoW more than anyone else, appereantly because they aren't able to handle and can't except evil characters to lead or evil races to be playable. But sure, people who claim that evil characters and factions can be a proper part of the story and not just retarded loot pinatas are delusional fanboys. Good thing there are still people who are able to comprehend things and can distinguish between a fictional story and reality. Your argumentations are as moronic as your avatar (hurr durr, everyone who likes Sylvanas is a idiotic fan boy, she does evil things, so she must die, i learned that in the kindergarden, buhu *cry smiley*), which probably reflects the state of your mind quite well. Go blubber and cry to your plushie or waste someone elses time with your idiocy.

[Bigby]

Unlike your ilk, i prefer not to play a red alliance. People like you ruin the story of WoW more than anyone else, appereantly because they aren't able to handle and can't except evil characters to lead or evil races to be playable. But sure, people who claim that evil characters and factions can be a proper part of the story and not just retarded loot pinatas are delusional fanboys. Good thing there are still people who are able to comprehend things and can distinguish between a fictional story and reality. Your argumentations are as moronic as your avatar (hurr durr, everyone who likes Sylvanas is a idiotic fan boy, she does evil things, so she must die, i learned that in the kindergarden, buhu *cry smiley*), which probably reflects the state of your mind quite well. Go blubber and cry to your plushie or waste someone elses time with your idiocy.

Lmao. The Horde only became 'evil' in Cataclysm. It's you Wrathbabies rolling Belf Paladins who cry about "B-BUT THE HORDE IS THE -EVIL-FACTION WITH -EVIL- RACES, WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED?!" when the entire point of the Horde was that they're the faction who look like monsters, but don't act like it, to the surprise of everybody.

Wow, real deep with that Moral Relativism. HURR THE WORLD IS DARK, THERE IS NO LIGHT, LIFE IS SUFFERING AND PAIN. Don't cut yourself on that edge, bucko.

[Super Dickmann]

Lmao. The Horde only became 'evil' in Cataclysm. It's you Wrathbabies rolling Belf Paladins who cry about "B-BUT THE HORDE IS THE -EVIL-FACTION WITH -EVIL- RACES, WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED?!" when the entire point of the Horde was that they're the faction who look like monsters, but don't act like it, to the surprise of everybody.

Wow, real deep with that Moral Relativism. HURR THE WORLD IS DARK, THERE IS NO LIGHT, LIFE IS SUFFERING AND PAIN. Don't cut yourself on that edge, bucko.

There's no moral relativism involved. His position and mine is that the Horde is evil, not that there's some moral equivalence between the woman torching a city full of civilians and the people trying to stop her. Rather, that I'd sooner play the villainous side than a clone of the other one and be lectured on morality by characters who sat meekly by throughout most of these atrocities and in other cases flat out assisted with them, see Saurfang. The Horde has been compromised from the noblesavagery that whiners like @Trassk are yearning for since Vanilla, when the Forsaken were introduced, goblins and blood elves just reinforced this.

The Horde as evil has predated and by now existed for a lot longer than the lolhonorable Horde if we combine WC1, WC2, Cata, the better part of Mists and now Legion and BFA as compared to WC3 and the non-Forsaken/blood elf/Garrosh parts of Vanilla to Wrath. I'll enjoy the two and a half patches or however long they give us of a proper Eastern Kingdoms or WC2 style Horde before they decide to shove the "Oh, the Horde is misunderstood, we dindu nuffin" bullshit down our throats again.

[Deleted]

Maybe I a bit naive here, but I am still holding out hope that there is more to this story than Saurfang (and his wishy-washy honor moping) = Vol'jin and Sylvanas = Garrosh. Because if that IS the direction they take it... *sigh*.

[Trassk]

There's no moral relativism involved. His position and mine is that the Horde is evil, not that there's some moral equivalence between the woman torching a city full of civilians and the people trying to stop her. Rather, that I'd sooner play the villainous side than a clone of the other one and be lectured on morality by characters who sat meekly by throughout most of these atrocities and in other cases flat out assisted with them, see Saurfang. The Horde has been compromised from the noblesavagery that whiners like @Trassk are yearning for since Vanilla, when the Forsaken were introduced, goblins and blood elves just reinforced this.

The Horde as evil has predated and by now existed for a lot longer than the lolhonorable Horde if we combine WC1, WC2, Cata, the better part of Mists and now Legion and BFA as compared to WC3 and the non-Forsaken/blood elf/Garrosh parts of Vanilla to Wrath. I'll enjoy the two and a half patches or however long they give us of a proper Eastern Kingdoms or WC2 style Horde before they decide to shove the "Oh, the Horde is misunderstood, we dindu nuffin" bullshit down our throats again.

All I'm seeing here is someone desperate for validation.

Your wrong, of course, because when blizzard goes to the trouble of making a high Def cinematic of an elder orc warrior and a young troll showing the contrasts of being good people just fighting to survive.

The way you portray the horde is so simple minded and narrow it shows someone with tunnel vision who's only paid attention to one aspect of the horde, the forsaken, while ignoring everything else.

It's also funny being called a whiner when your the one in desperate need for confirmation of your opinion, that you'd stick your fingers in yours to deny it.

Keep trying though, it will make the tears all the more salty ^^

[Verdugo]

It's also funny being called a whiner when your the one in desperate need for confirmation of your opinion, that you'd stick your fingers in yours to deny it.

Keep trying though, it will make the tears all the more salty ^^

Funny comming from someone whining ever since Voljin was made warchief instead of Thrall.


Your husbando will never become relevant, deal with it.

[Super Dickmann]

All I'm seeing here is someone desperate for validation.

Your wrong, of course, because when blizzard goes to the trouble of making a high Def cinematic of an elder orc warrior and a young troll showing the contrasts of being good people just fighting to survive.

The way you portray the horde is so simple minded and narrow it shows someone with tunnel vision who's only paid attention to one aspect of the horde, the forsaken, while ignoring everything else.

It's also funny being called a whiner when your the one in desperate need for confirmation of your opinion, that you'd stick your fingers in yours to deny it.

Keep trying though, it will make the tears all the more salty ^^

What confirmation? I know full well Blizzard's view doesn't align with mine, but that's the faction as they've portrayed it in action, if not in word. Showing a child murderer be sad in a cinematic then go on to fight for a genocidal necromancer until she makes a logical tactical move doesn't change my mind. The orcs have been involved in endless wars of aggression on the flimsiest of pretexts, even discounting demon blood and the like, Forsaken and goblins speak for themselves, blood elves shouldn't even be part of it at this point given that they're basically red high elves and the only ones who've maintained some consistent morality apart from that are trolls and tauren. All of them happily participated in Garrosh's war until the last five minutes and now they'll happily participate in Sylvanas' until the last five minutes. I'm having a fun time with the Horde as it is now, like I enjoyed Garrosh's, but I've said in my comments for months that it ain't gonna last.

[Trassk]

Funny comming from someone whining ever since Voljin was made warchief instead of Thrall.


Your husbando will never become relevant, deal with it.

Have dealt with it mate, I can accept that fact.

Unlike some who can't accept the horde isn't the 'evil faction' they want it to be.

[Dagoth Ur]

Oh look, the alliance puppet gets out of prison after all. Shall we make bets that he will gather forces and weaken the Horde in its fight with the Alliance, killing even more members of the Horde with his decisions, or that he will challenge Sylvanas openly in Mak'gora, like an honorable Orc he claims to be would. Oh, but i guess in this case, Saurfangs twisted, egoistic code of honor is flexible enough, that he doesn't have to challenge the Warchief through Mak'gora, because he knows, that he is old and weak and wouldn't stand a chance anyway.

God. I can't believe they come with this kind of crap story again. How god damn atrocious can these authors and people responsible for the story be at their job.

That's what bothers me most about this whole Saurfang thing. What scenario could possibly even happen that could justify Saurfang leaving the Horde and orcs, who he is leader of by the way, in the middle of the conflict, which was supposed to be Warcraft's biggest AvH war yet, because he dislikes current warchief upon his return? People don't realize that it's not just Sylvanas he left behind. He also left that adorable zappyboi everyone claims represents what Horde is actually all about.

In any case, I think the only starting point where we can even talk about this in any positive capacity would have to start with Saurfang forcefully escaping out of prison. Everything else will just make people percieve him as Alliance's stooge and nobody wants that shit.

[Deleted]

Funny comming from someone whining ever since Voljin was made warchief instead of Thrall.


Your husbando will never become relevant, deal with it.

That depends. If Thrall is the only in-game connection Metzen still has with Blizzard then it would be a gigantic middle finger to him to remove him from the game entirely.

So I'm fully expecting Thrall to become relevant again in the future. Perhaps just to guide his son as new Warchief, but he'll come back for sure.

[Deleted]

I'm still hoping that maybe Saurfang goes to the Frostwolves and especially Drek'thar. I mean, Drek'thar gave us the middle finger as far back as Cata, because he thought there was no worse thing he could do than help the Forsaken and he never would. I think he'd make a very good starting point for Saurfang to rally some forces against Sylvanas. Drek'thar sure needs no convincing.
And it would have nothing to do with the Alliance.

[Super Dickmann]

That's what bothers me most about this whole Saurfang thing. What scenario could possibly even happen that could justify Saurfang leaving the Horde and orcs, who he is leader of by the way, in the middle of the conflict, which was supposed to be Warcraft's biggest AvH war yet, because he dislikes current warchief upon his return? People don't realize that it's not just Sylvanas he left behind. He also left that adorable zappyboi everyone claims represents what Horde is actually all about.

In any case, I think the only starting point where we can even talk about this in any positive capacity would have to start with Saurfang forcefully escaping out of prison. Everything else will just make people percieve him as Alliance's stooge and nobody wants that shit.

This. Saurfang as presented ditches his duties because of his personal problems. I think that makes him a stronger character in general, because he has a genuine internal struggle and actually deals with the consequences of his actions as far back as the First War, but it also means that he's completely compromised if he's let out to serve as an Alliance patsy and would make this Mists retread much worse, because in Mists, the Horde was in the process of rebelling by itself. If they really want to do the honorable Horde bit properly and include Memeboi, have Zekhan be the one who speaks to him in prison and have Saurfang decide to break out on that basis. I mean, I'd prefer if he broke out because the Alliance had done something really harsh and the Horde was at risk, but we all know that ain't gonna happen under Anduin, so I'll take that as an alternative if we really must do Mists again, but worse.

The worst way this can go is if Anduin frees Saurfang so he can bring honor to the Horde, Sylvanas sends a hit out on him and he takes her out and makes peace with the Alliance in respect of Anduin's wisdom.

[Deleted]

Surfang could leave at any moment.

he just doesn't wanna

[Aeula]

Oh sweet. It’s going to be that Vol’jin scenario all over again.

Can’t I let the Assassins kill him this time? I don’t like Sylvanas, but I don’t need Saurfang to deal with her.

[Deleted]

I still don't think Saurfang will want to 'join the Alliance' or be any kind of puppet for Anduin. He may not have the usual raging hate-boner for the Alliance, I mean, his plan for world domination involved making the Alliance nations join the Horde, but he was clearly not amused by being taken prisoner by an untested kid blabbing about honor.
Plus he doesn't need the Alliance really, from the new texts it seems that almost all forces of the world want Sylvanas gone, because 'Balance'. He could get the Horde part of the Earthen Ring, the Horde part of the Druids, the Frostwolves and maybe some Loa for his cause easily, I'd wager.

[Trassk]

Oh sweet. It’s going to be that Vol’jin scenario all over again.

Can’t I let the Assassins kill him this time? I don’t like Sylvanas, but I don’t need Saurfang to deal with her.

Yeah, you do. Because you need someone to stir the story in wow, or would you prefer the game rely completely as having your in game avatar as the main hero of the story that everything revolves around. Because that crap got old since wod.

[Aeula]

Yeah, you do. Because you need someone to stir the story in wow, or would you prefer the game rely completely as having your in game avatar as the main hero of the story that everything revolves around. Because that crap got old since wod.

At this point yes.

It’d be nice to have someone competent calling the shots. I don’t want Saurfang or Sylvanas as Warchief.

[Dagoth Ur]

I mean, I'd prefer if he broke out because the Alliance had done something really harsh and the Horde was at risk, but we all know that ain't gonna happen under Anduin, so I'll take that as an alternative if we really must do Mists again, but worse.

It could see this happening if Horde starts to take some serious casualties and finds itself in losing position after the events of siege of Zuldazar. As long as focus is on Jaina and not on Anduin, maybe indeed this is possible. In this case, Saurfang breaking out to help the Horde, or part of it for which he cares about, would make me say not a word against him anymore.

Unfortunately, my pessimism tells me we'll see something more akin to what you've written below.

The worst way this can go is if Anduin frees Saurfang so he can bring honor to the Horde, Sylvanas sends a hit out on him and he takes her out and makes peace with the Alliance in respect of Anduin's wisdom.

Man, I dread of this shit. And what's worse, it looks like everything points exactly to something like this happening. I still hold out hope they won't put as trough crap like this.

[Super Dickmann]

It could see this happening if Horde starts to take some serious casualties and finds itself in losing position after the events of siege of Zuldazar. As long as focus is on Jaina and not on Anduin, maybe indeed this is possible. In this case, Saurfang breaking out to help the Horde, or part of it for which he cares about, would make me say not a word against him anymore.

The other reason i doubt this is that we've seen very little of either Sylvanas or Anduin and they're basically the title characters for this one. I don't see Sylvanas going without some final action as Warchief of the Horde or without encountering Anduin again in some capacity as the leaders of their respective factions. Which is why I'm leaning towards either us being the assassins sent by Sylvanas because she trusts us so much, but we end up saving Saurfang instead and lying to her, or Anduin freeing him to bring honor to the Horde or whatever. Then after Azshara we get some final fight of some description between her and Anduin while Saurfang builds his revolution, and she gets kicked out in time for us to go up against N'zoth.