[ Spoilers ] The TRUE God of Death, speculation on Vol'jin's whisperer and savior

[Deleted]

Turning Elune into the god of death would be an interesting twist. But I'm leaning towards somebody new. Some actually 100% evil god of death who isn't evil because old gods or misunderstanding or retcon, but a real power hungry god who only cares about death.

[Super Dickmann]

Reposting my theory from another thread. I think it's either Mueh'zala or some other unknown death entity and its end goal is to use Sylvanas to kill Azeroth's worldsoul, thus at once preventing the void lords from accomplishing their goals, hence why the void wants her dead, but also damning the planet to decay where only the undead can remain, hence why we have to stop her and said entity anyway.

[Destinas]

The only thing that bothers me about that is they said that Loa gain power by having worshipers. So Mueh'ala should be weaker than Bwonsamdi unless like Bwonsamdi made a deal Mueh'ala. Maybe Bwonsamdi was a mortal once that made a deal with Mueh'ala and so most if not all the souls he collects go to Mueh'ala, would explain why he looks like an undead troll.

Mueh'zala could be considered a "loa" by the trolls, without having to follow the same rules as the Wild God variants. G'huun is considered a "loa" by the Blood Trolls. Gahz'rilla was worshiped as a deity by the Sandfury, despite being a creation/minion of the Old Gods. Wisps are called "loa" by the troll druids. Sha are called "loa" by a Zandalari in Pandaria. The Lun'alai worship a being that is not considered a loa by the rest of Zandalar's culture, but they have druidic powers nonetheless (which is mirrored with the Crumbling Ceremonial Vestments).

Besides that, even for the Wild God variants it doesn't make sense. Kimbul's followers were cursed by the naga, and he decided to take no more followers ever again. We help him, he takes a few Tortollans as his followers, and then he's able to help Gonk and Pa'ku in the fight against Mythrax. Gral, as well, has no followers because his temple was assaulted by the naga, yet we were able to evoke his powers. Akunda, as well, has only a handful of followers (and was poisoned), but he's quite powerful. The same could be said of Sethraliss, who has only a few non-Faithless true followers.

tldr - "Loa" just kind of means "strong spirit" that the Trolls choose to worship. Rules and power levels haven't applied to all of them equally.

[The7]

Chronicles specifically points out that old gods are void align and death are another faction altogether so this whole hour-long post is totally wrong and misguided.

[Daws]

I'm leaning towards this being a completely new character and possibly one related to Elune. If Elune is basically a goddess of life and death is a focus for an upcoming expansion (or even this one maybe?) then it would make a lot of sense that the being connected to death got his servant Sylvannas to start killing the Night Elves since Elune is there primary goddess most likely making them his enemy. Load this up with Tyrande's upcoming power up and you could see this ending with Sylvannas getting defeated only to be powered up by her new boss ready to lead us into the next expansion.

I'd further go with lore basically following the path that with the fall of the Legion and sidelineing of the Titans this has left a massive power vacuum and killed a lot of people which has allowed this all to continue and that N'Zoth could end up getting out played since his attempt to come back is making the death character more powerful. Also possible that the fight between life and death is to see what happens to the titan Azeroth. If death claims Azeroth it gets a massive power up but if life wins then Azeroth is healed and starts preparing for a fight against the void lords.

[RedFenix]

It's definitely Mueh'zala. Too much of a coincidence that he was brought back into the limelight in a novel recently after being in the background since Vanilla. It also makes the most sense since Eyir, Hela, and Bwonsamdi are basically the same (take souls from the Shadowlands), Sylvanas and the Lich King are masters of Undeath rather than Death, and Yogg-saron is likely too weak after being defeated in Ulduar to do anything. Mueh'zala is a pure Death entity who lives in the Shadowlands. The being has no other realm.

Really? I assumed the two were connected.

It might be because Sylvanas gave them free will, which you would need to go insane, in comparison to a robot or something.

I agree that free will is susceptible to Old God/Void Lord whispers, where control from a central hive-mind leader provides a telepathic barrier. As for Vol'jin's savior and whisperer likely not being connected, this was some of Vol'jin's exchange with Helya:

• ...Queen of da Val'kyr. My spirit was sent to da Other Side, den returned. Was dis your doing?
• Shadow hunter, you are no longer a mere spirit. What you have become is something beyond my power to forge.
• Who be havin' such power? Could it be da same one who bid me ta name Sylvanas warchief?
• You have been touched by the hand of valor. Such a noble force does not scheme for mortal thrones.
• So whoever whispered to me's not da same as who sent me back?
• You have been granted all the knowledge I am willing to share. Leave now, and never return...

- - - Updated - - -

I'd be surprised if Mueh'zala is the one in charge simply because it is worshipped by one of the "lesser" troll tribes. If it were as big a deal as all of that, why would the mighty Zandalari revere Bwonsamdi rather than the true master? Why would it favour the Farraki? I'm inclined to agree with the poster above that it's fertile ground to introduce new lore.
The Odyn tale that you mentioned in the other thread potentially linking him to both the Shadowlands and Mueh'zala is interesting, but I don't expect Blizzard to be this subtle with their storytelling. I still remember "Khadgar". It's too well hidden to be a major antagonist. I'd expect a grand reveal of something new rather than something that's been hiding in plain sight. I'd also expect more focus on the Farraki if they wanted to make their Loa a big deal. I could be totally wrong, and would be impressed if they did go for this, but I remain unconvinced for now.

Do the Farraki not have butt-loads of zombies and a hydra loa, Gahz/rilla (Possibly Old God related as well)?
From the Adventure Guide:

Legend has it that Gahz'rilla was an adored pet of the Old Gods, or even a demigod in her own right. Whatever the truth is, the Sandfury trolls have worshiped this monstrous hydra for thousands of years. Ever wary of the beast's icy wrath, the trolls will only rouse Gahz'rilla when they have plentiful sacrifices to sate the ravenous creature's appetite.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic. Hidden in plain sight would be very refreshing to me with this story's pacing and eventual unfolding.

[Deleted]

Baron Samedi is Haitian, as is the Voudoun religion that the loa are based on.

Small correction, Haitain not Hawaiian.

Noted, sorry for the error.

[Deleted]

The idea of one possibility being Elune makes very little sense to me - Elune is the goddess of the Night Elves, ergo a race of the Alliance, ergo anti-Horde. Why would Elune knowingly manipulate Sylvanas - who by definition is anti-Alliance - into the position of Warchief and thereby knowingly endanger the very welbeing of her own people by allying with 'the enemy' as it were? If there's a "bigger picture" here for Elune to somehow be actually helping her people here, I must be completely missing it. Anyone care to elaborate?

[Darth Vowrawn]

The idea of one possibility being Elune makes very little sense to me - Elune is the goddess of the Night Elves, ergo a race of the Alliance, ergo anti-Horde. Why would Elune knowingly manipulate Sylvanas - who by definition is anti-Alliance - into the position of Warchief and thereby knowingly endanger the very welbeing of her own people by allying with 'the enemy' as it were? If there's a "bigger picture" here for Elune to somehow be actually helping her people here, I must be completely missing it. Anyone care to elaborate?

Elune is not "anti-Horde", as she has worshippers amongst the Horde as well. She's anti-Sylvanas, but that is completely different. Elune has Troll worshippers, and her earliest worshippers were Trolls. Elune has never considered "the Horde" to be her enemy. Elune is politically neutral.

[Deleted]

Elune is not "anti-Horde", as she has worshippers amongst the Horde as well. She's anti-Sylvanas, but that is completely different. Elune has Troll worshippers, and her earliest worshippers were Trolls. Elune has never considered "the Horde" to be her enemy. Elune is politically neutral.

OK fair enough, but then even moreso now begs the question - if she is specifically anti-Sylvanas, why still then purposely manipulate events to put her in a position of power, what does she have to gain from it?

[Darth Vowrawn]

OK fair enough, but then even moreso now begs the question - if she is specifically anti-Sylvanas, why still then purposely manipulate events to put her in a position of power, what does she have to gain from it?

She gets nothing out of it, which is why it makes no sense for her to be on the list. Unless she had some kind of insanely evil split personality, which, being a Goddess, would only be likely if there was a reference to said personality, like Durga and Kali. Although, with Kali, it's more "righteous vengeance", and not evil, which "the Night Warrior" could easily personify. But that is still not "puts Sylvanas on the throne for some evil machinations to kill loads of people".

[Deleted]

She gets nothing out of it, which is why it makes no sense for her to be on the list. Unless she had some kind of insanely evil split personality, which, being a Goddess, would only be likely if there was a reference to said personality, like Durga and Kali. Although, with Kali, it's more "righteous vengeance", and not evil, which "the Night Warrior" could easily personify. But that is still not "puts Sylvanas on the throne for some evil machinations to kill loads of people".

Ah OK good, that's what I thought too then - it makes no sense for her to be a suspect. All that we know of Elune, or what little rather, is that she's not the pragmatic, Machiavellian type to follow through a plan like this, especially with no obvious gain and far more likely suspects who would have more to gain from said manipulation.

[Cathululock]

If it is indeed THAT powerful, it will HAVE to be a "she" come on, dude-bro. It's 2018.

That said it has to be helya or some new amazing superwoman goddess entity.

[mingarrubia]

Yeah my money is on the Muhzala guy or whatever his name is.

[Azahel]

I can't decide if I prefer Samedi or Dimanche...
But seriously, I doubt it's any loa, loa are minor dudes in the great scheme of things, but then again it's not the old gods either, I just hope it's a completely new character.

[RedFenix]

Nice job copying everything from Bellular. Sums it up pretty much.

Uh... Nice job assuming I'm plagiarizing my speculation ideas from a Youtuber. Yes, I know who you are referring to, but these ideas are my own.

[Deleted]

Not really sure whether loa have an established hierarchy as in some of them serving others etc. They do run into conflict of interest scenarios and have different ranks of power however i cannot recall loa serving other loa from the top of my head. Ofc Bwosamdi maybe made some sort of deal which went wrong for him but all in all i reckon that w/e that boss line is about is not a loa.
Helya is pretty straightforward and aggresive to just be a figure in the shadows. Anyhow i would not understand why a loa would try and actually achieve to hide from Voljin regardless of how badly injured and clouded he was at the time.
My gut feeling would go with either a new entity/new realm (the likes of the one drust druids -remember the drust are an ancient species- are afraid of disturbing the balance and Thros as we see it in Jaina scenario) . We should also strongly consider the words of Varimathras and the fact that he knew and the connection between dreadlords and necromancy maybe it been the work of a dreadlord or w/e (yesh i know jaina dreadlord, saw her strolling in blighted lands along the spirits of the dead in the warbringer video she could be the manipulator , another trololololol). Now although we dont know of any connection between the old gods and the realm of death , knowing that yoggi is called god of death, the fact that we have seen old gods breaching other realms in the past (nzoth and the merald dream) and also the point where yoggi was the one that spread the curse of flesh we could probably speculate that there was some kind of connection with that realm and a greater plan from yogg's part to bring mortal races into his grasps if not through manipulation when alive then in the afterlife. So either blizz gonna make some interesting new character / new villain or reintroduce yogg in another realm. I have to go with the second option.
As for who brought voljin back : We know that Odyn is a bit of a slacker and actually had helya appointed to bring the spirits back. It would also be strange if Eyr did not want to reveal his name . So I would go with the guy that has his eye that brought him back.
Havign said that i believe we miss the most important quote from eyr (although valor is the catchy one huehue). "beyond my power to FORGE". Voljin's spirit has ascented to Loa. Who is able to forge in general and who would forge loas in particular ?? The apparent answer is some kind of titan keeper or elune.
Quite concerned about what Blizzard plans to do with the spirit of King Varyan tbh.

[telygroar]

It cannot be azeroth itself ?

Even wounded, she has some power, right ? Or a unknown titan with the power to order things in shadowlands, or a titan guardian we didn't heard about in some times, like tyr ?

[Destinas]

Do the Farraki not have butt-loads of zombies and a hydra loa, Gahz/rilla (Possibly Old God related as well)?

It should also be noted that though the Sandfury have their own death Loa, Bwonsamdi does not offer them protection.

The powerful loa Bwonsamdi watches over the spirits of the Darkspear trolls, but many of the Sandfury tribe's fallen members are offered no such protection after death. These tortured spirits obey Zum'rah, a cruel witch doctor who uses his dark magic to force the city's dead into unending service.

[Deleted]

depends heavily on if we are talking about death as in the primordial forces (life/deat/order/disorder/light/shadow), or simply the most powerful being in the shadowlands.

none of the beings on the list are remotely close to what the god of the primordial force death would be, that would be a being on par wiht the void lords.

but i can definately see an old god corrupting the shadowlands just like they did the emerald dream. and in that case any of them could fit the bill. peronally a fan of helya, because her origin is closely tied to the titans who created the shadowlands/elemental planes/emerald dream, so she has a lot of fundamental knowhow about how it all works. +one can wonder exactly why helya has tentacles, like she used to be a valkyr and now she has all them old goddy tentacles going on.