#BelieveSurvivors walk out

[Machismo]

bashing people on social media and making their life shit is not waiting until the facts are out.

Nice you see you cant make sense and contradict yourself when faced with reality

You mean like victim blaming?

Oh, I'm enjoying the shit out of the irony.

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oh but they will and one has. and she didn't demand anything but justice when it happened.

But how do you know? Apparently, if your daughter does not immediately come forward, you will call her a fucking liar, and slam her for it.

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Agreed.



And blaming victims is not the same thing as victim-blaming. Again, victim-blaming is blaming someone for a crime committed against them.

Which others have done, including him. He's blaming the victims for being victims, and for not coming forward, as he bashes them for coming forward.

[RobertoCarlos]

You mean like victim blaming?

Oh, I'm enjoying the shit out of the irony.

Shame you're resorting to such childish tactics. Do you really believe taking this stuff to social media is "waiting for the facts" though? Like honestly, just human to human for a moment. Do you really believe that? Dont you think the damage is already done just by throwing out that kind of dirt? Or do you think only a small enough amount of people lie about it, that it doesnt really matter and its a few among the millions type of deal?

You cant be that naive to think there are not jilted/scored lovers out there "Thou doth have no fury like a woman scorned". Not saying guys are saints. A lot of dudes are creepy. I wouldnt feel safe walking around some places in the world at night as a woman. Doesnt mean we need to throw away due process and evidence though

[Endus]

Sounds to me like you're asking for an impossibility... a case where we later on found out that the claims were false, but where restitutions weren't made.

Yes. But I'm not the one making the case that those cases are rampant. I'm the one dismissing that idea, and expecting that you won't find such cases, not at any appreciable scale at least. My entire point is that there's no evidence to back that claim, that people are targeted unfairly all the time and their careers are ruined over nothing. Of course I don't think you'll find evidence that I'm wrong. That's it's irrational is also my point.

Maybe the difference between you and I is that you seem to believe that there's always enough evidence to make a definitive statement as to guilt. I don't think that's true, and I think we're stuck with a lot of ambiguity in these types of cases which leads to a lot of unsatisfying results. I just don't see how we can do any better though.

I've pretty clearly stated that the standards for criminal conviction are deliberately high, and that they are intended to let guilty parties walk from time to time. And that other forms of social censure in cases where it's pretty clear they're probably guilty, that's totally fine by me. In cases where such censure crosses a line, we already have laws to protect those targeted individuals, and I don't see the argument that there's any serious issue that would justify restricting freedom of speech in the way that my detractors keep insisting is needed.

[craigw]

2017, Becomes an anti-trump activist.

Proof???

you know a lot of times it takes a life changing moment for a victim to come forward right?


Sorry but this party does not get to complain, they have spent 25+ years complaining about B. Clinton's rapes that have no evidence and have been investigated with no charges. But they brought it up again in 2016 election. Trump harped on it for months. i am sure i can go through your post history and i bet there is a lot of things you supported with little to no evidence to back it up.

i can almost guarantee it

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So you are fine with the consequences if it really did happen, and the consequences if he did do it and then sits on the highest court??


What is the harm in holding the vote for an actual investigation?





What consequences?
Someone not getting a job permotion right away? He might have to wait a few months?

Turns out her present politics has a lot to do with what we are seeing. She's a fanatic Bay Area far-left activist. She donated cash to ShareBlue, a generic Democratic front for cash-raising of the Obama-hipster variety. On Twitter, she had spoke that she gave $5,000 to Hillary Clinton, and a reliable report from reporter Ryan Saavedra that she gave money to Bernie Sanders, the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. She also made pink pussy hats and participated in the anti-Trump women's marches. bill Clinton paid off his accuser. what more proof do you need? you cant press charges when someone agrees to a NDA and a payoff.....

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I totally believe you.....

oh no you don't agree with me, you vote trump. classic...…..

[Machismo]

Shame you're resorting to such childish tactics. Do you really believe taking this stuff to social media is "waiting for the facts" though? Like honestly, just human to human for a moment. Do you really believe that? Dont you think the damage is already done just by throwing out that kind of dirt? Or do you think only a small enough amount of people lie about it, that it doesnt really matter and its a few among the millions type of deal?

You cant be that naive to think there are not jilted/scored lovers out there "Thou doth have no fury like a woman scorned". Not saying guys are saints. A lot of dudes are creepy. I wouldnt feel safe walking around some places in the world at night as a woman. Doesnt mean we need to throw away due process and evidence though

Pointing out your hypocrisy and bullshit is not childish. You are quite literally not waiting for the facts before you make your claims. You are now making my case for me, thanks.

[craigw]

You mean like victim blaming?

Oh, I'm enjoying the shit out of the irony.

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But how do you know? Apparently, if your daughter does not immediately come forward, you will call her a fucking liar, and slam her for it.

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Which others have done, including him. He's blaming the victims for being victims, and for not coming forward, as he bashes them for coming forward.

so you think all women are weak minded fools? got it. they all never speak of atrocities committed against them when they take place. they all stay quite. got it. all women are the same. got it...... strong women don't give people control. I know its hard for you to grasp that women can be strong, but trust me they can be just as strong if not stronger mentally than men.

[Pantupino]

Even Tim Pool, a non biased independent journalist, says its all over.

[Zan15]

Turns out her present politics has a lot to do with what we are seeing. She's a fanatic Bay Area far-left activist. She donated cash to ShareBlue, a generic Democratic front for cash-raising of the Obama-hipster variety. On Twitter, she had spoke that she gave $5,000 to Hillary Clinton, and a reliable report from reporter Ryan Saavedra that she gave money to Bernie Sanders, the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. She also made pink pussy hats and participated in the anti-Trump women's marches. bill Clinton paid off his accuser. what more proof do you need? you cant press charges when someone agrees to a NDA and a payoff.....

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oh no you don't agree with me, you vote trump. classic...…..

again, proof?
You are starting to sound so conspiracy-ish its kind of hard to take you serious.

Because all election records show she donated 60-90 bucks

Ford is a registered Democrat who has donated to progressive organizations, she is far from being a major donor. Data from the Federal Election Commission shows Ford donated less than $100 to Democratic election campaigns and committees between 2013 and 2017.


"She also made pink pussy hats and participated in the anti-Trump women's marches"

Proof? Another false accusation, this was another/different professor.

a photo that circulated on social media that purported to be Dr. Blasey holding a “not my president” sign at an anti-Trump rally appears to be misleading. The photo appears on a stock photo website, and the woman in the photo is not identified. Dr. Blasey did attend a California Women’s March in 2017, according to The Mercury News. But the photo below was taken at a march in New York in 2016, according to Alamy, the stock photo website.





" bill Clinton paid off his accuser."


proof? Cause she is saying that she wants the FBI to investigate it this week

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...tigate-my-rape



Shocked you did not bring up the foreclosure?



guess we all know now what sites you are getting your info from

[RobertoCarlos]

Pointing out your hypocrisy and bullshit is not childish. You are quite literally not waiting for the facts before you make your claims. You are now making my case for me, thanks.

yep confirmed you have nothing to discuss and just want to yell "victim blaming" you've said it about 15 times already. Good chat :/

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Even Tim Pool, a non biased independent journalist, says its all over.

This is my shocked face.

Its almost like witch hunts are good for jack shit. Think people would have learnt that after the middle ages already

[Goldielocks]

The reason why women don't come forward right away is in the same vein as most common issues a person faces. They simply inaccurately weigh the pros and cons of the action in question. This happens to all of us. For most things. What seems like the better decision is often short term and ends up not curing the source.

What we need to do in order to fix this is to allow the victims to see less cons in coming forward. Less pressure from the general populace, and a cheaper cost would be a good start.

[blankfaced]

So are you going along to the walk out? Believing people just because they said it happened...

How did we get here? Why is rape now a social media issue and not a issue to be solved in the court of law?

Do we need to provide people some kind of special training to help highlight the issue of reporting their sexual abuse because it seems quite common that assault victims bottle their experiences, and then years later they want vengeance for the damage done to their lives or just want to move on but by then its far more difficult to prove the crime took place.

Do police need more training in dealing with sexual assaults and how we report these events and data collection?

This stuff is madness imo, rape is no joke, why do rape victims not instantly go to police I dont get it.

If you don't understand why rape victims don't just go to the police, you're pretty much a part of the problem. From the ridiculous amount of rape kits that sit collecting dust, to the number of people that flat out refuse to believe them. There's no wonder women are afraid to come forward, or just see no reason to, because nothing seems to ever get done. And look at Brock Turner, girl comes forward and all the focus is on how this will affect 'his' future, nothing regarding the girl who's whole life was flipped upside down and made a circus of.

Only advice I have for anyone not understanding this, pull your head from your ass. Ask the women in your family if they've ever been assaulted. Ask the women in your life if they have. I've asked, I know how common it is. Only one of them actually got any semblance of justice for the events, and the man didn't even serve any time for it just probation.

Rape and assault occur far more often than some of you realize. Heads from asses please.

[Blizzhoof]

There should always be the presumption of innocence and accusations should have to be proven. How is that a controversial statement? Ruining somebody's life over the word of one person, with little to no supporting evidence is ridiculous. As a society, we should take accusations that have reasonable merit seriously and want them looked into.

We also should expect there to be some supporting evidence when somebody makes a claim. In the Kavanaugh case specifically, these allegations have no supporting witnesses, the "victims" cannot remember key details about the events, and the allegations were held until they could cause the most political uproar. This is a case, where the accusers (they are not survivors or victims until that's been proven in a court of law) should not be believed.

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Even Tim Pool, a non biased independent journalist, says its all over.

Haven't you hear? Tim Pool is an alt-right neo-Nazi.

[Mafic]

The reason why women don't come forward right away is in the same vein as most common issues a person faces. They simply inaccurately weigh the pros and cons of the action in question. This happens to all of us. For most things. What seems like the better decision is often short term and ends up not curing the source.

What we need to do in order to fix this is to allow the victims to see less cons in coming forward. Less pressure from the general populace, and a cheaper cost would be a good start.

Social media is literally free. If you mean the opportunity cost is sky high because of how it changes ones life by coming forward that will never change. Human experience is both a blessing and a curse.

[Kuza]

If you don't understand why rape victims don't just go to the police, you're pretty much a part of the problem. From the ridiculous amount of rape kits that sit collecting dust, to the number of people that flat out refuse to believe them. There's no wonder women are afraid to come forward, or just see no reason to, because nothing seems to ever get done. And look at Brock Turner, girl comes forward and all the focus is on how this will affect 'his' future, nothing regarding the girl who's whole life was flipped upside down and made a circus of.

Only advice I have for anyone not understanding this, pull your head from your ass. Ask the women in your family if they've ever been assaulted. Ask the women in your life if they have. I've asked, I know how common it is. Only one of them actually got any semblance of justice for the events, and the man didn't even serve any time for it just probation.

Rape and assault occur far more often than some of you realize. Heads from asses please.

As a rape victim myself, I utterly disagree with you, not coming forward is an idiotic stance, your setting the stage for another person to become another victim. I have no sympathy for people that wont step up and try to stop an injustice.

[Machismo]

so you think all women are weak minded fools? got it. they all never speak of atrocities committed against them when they take place. they all stay quite. got it. all women are the same. got it...... strong women don't give people control. I know its hard for you to grasp that women can be strong, but trust me they can be just as strong if not stronger mentally than men.

You are the one trying to blame women, not me. You dodged what you would do if your daughter didn't report it immediately.

[Goldielocks]

Social media is literally free. If you mean the opportunity cost is sky high because of how it changes ones life by coming forward that will never change. Human experience is both a blessing and a curse.

Eh the cost was just more of an ambiguous one. Monetary, emotional, temporal, etc. It's like you'd look at what you would undertake and the whole thing would just not seem worth it. Even if you win, you lose.

[Machismo]

yep confirmed you have nothing to discuss and just want to yell "victim blaming" you've said it about 15 times already. Good chat :/

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This is my shocked face.

Its almost like witch hunts are good for jack shit. Think people would have learnt that after the middle ages already

If you don't want to get called out on your bullshit, then stop pushing it.

[Bodakane]

oh no you don't agree with me, you vote trump. classic...…..

Not quite.

You are spouting things Trump spouts.

[Jastall]

nice job missing the point of the entire thread.

Im saying they should go to the courts to get this dealt with properly rather than turning to social media/books etc.

And you know that's not always an option for many, many problems in society.

I'll use another example; here in Quebec, several years back, there was a big scandal about corruption in the construction industry; bribery, collusion, inflated project prices, complicit public officials, all that good stuff. It made the headline news for months, there were special commissions in place to examine the problem, and journalists spearheaded an insanely massive and detailed investigation that got loads of people talking.

Seems like a big deal, right? So lots of people were jailed, right?

Nope, because while a lot of dirt was accumulated on a lot of people, up to prominent MPs and ministers, the burden of proof in a criminal court is beyond any reasonable doubt, which is very, very hard to prove in such circumstances. So some people got a few sentences, but none of the most prominent actors suffered from legal consequences. Instead, the consequences were political and social; the ruling party was displaced, a good portion of the actors had their reputation tarnished by solid (even if not court-worthy) evidence that they were crooks, political habits were shaken up as old parties got their dirty tricks looked at, and the ways of the construction industry itself were cleaned up to a degree as the scandal made everyone wary. Had we been limited to legal consequences, by design, close to nothing would have happened.

Now the situations aren't exactly the same, but the write-up is to show that this is not the dichotomy you present. Proving something in a criminal court is long, hard, and sometimes basically impossible because of the necessarily high standards demanded by judges and juries. So other ways can bring attention cases to public attention and move things along, like what happened to Bill Cosby before the criminal investigations rolled out in earnest, or hell when OJ got convicted in a civilian court which has a lower standard of proof after being declared not guilty in the criminal sense.

Are there abusers and stories spreading out of control? Certainly, and that's a shame, and the people who spread outright false and damaging allegations should be punished as far as the law allows. That does not mean that public accusations or assorted investigations have no value or should cease altogether, because society does not and should not share a criminal court's burden of proof and limitations. And the #metoo movement has its flaws for sure, but should not be discredited because of some abusers. If you expect a movement, process or solution to be perfect, you're going to wait forever.

[Martymark]

Now, I'm sure you would never say anything bad about Hillary, and whether she is guilty, right?

We'll never know since she'll never be tried for various things that she openly admits to but have jailed others.