So that karma nerf on PTR

[klepp0906]

do we think theyll add some type of compensation?

If not, rip talent row and DEF rip any remaining viability from a competitive standpoint.

I know its early/sky is falling type stuff. But if your being objective from a numerical standpoint.... Oh, and history and all. Blizzard doesnt test, and apparently lacks common sense...

Doesnt look good is my perspective on the whole thing. At least at current.

[Lord Baz]

why is everyone crying about any fix ??

This nerf accounts for 6% of our total damage, only IF karma is used optimally in an offensive matter ( which means risking ur self in order to dps )

thats actually a good change, moving karma from 12-15% of total damage to 6-8%

which also means that karma can save ur ass with the heals

windwalker is fine and people should seriously stop crying

[Saverem]

I see it as a karma FIX. I don't want to have to taunt or stand on fire just to compete. I like that FIX and now they need to buff another ability to compensate.

It's a change that I actually suggested many months ago.

Also, it's actually a BUFF for PvP as it heals and damages at the same time where as the one we have now just damages and we never get to use its full 100% HP because people are smart enough to switch off you.

[klepp0906]

why is everyone crying about any fix ??

This nerf accounts for 6% of our total damage, only IF karma is used optimally in an offensive matter ( which means risking ur self in order to dps )

thats actually a good change, moving karma from 12-15% of total damage to 6-8%

which also means that karma can save ur ass with the heals

windwalker is fine and people should seriously stop crying

interesting interpretation of fine. If you like having no niche and hanging by the bottom. Sure. Fine. To each their own though. If your pushing the limits of the class, have played it for years, and put in a ridiculous amount of effort for little return..

fact of the matter is, if they dont like it - why was it a thing all of legion with the cloak? Why did it get baked in to a talent tree? How did it even make it live? As it is we scale poorly, add this and .. well you heard it here first.

Check out uldir stats, last i checked we were pretty dead center in its current state. For the genius among us, that means that other adjustments withstanding, we go downward.

thats my take on it. to each their own.

[Echoherb]

OP isn't complaining about the karma nerf, he's asking if there's compensation - as in whether they are baking the damage into the class overall.

We all knew karma was going to get nerfed, a dev inderectly confirmed it in the Q&A. Most likely they will bake the damage into the class, since that's what they usually do.

[klepp0906]

I see it as a karma FIX. I don't want to have to taunt or stand on fire just to compete. I like that FIX and now they need to buff another ability to compensate.

It's a change that I actually suggested many months ago.

Also, it's actually a BUFF for PvP as it heals and damages at the same time where as the one we have now just damages and we never get to use its full 100% HP because people are smart enough to switch off you.

I agree to an extent. Its terrible that you have to do that to be competitive, but this being "fixed" only makes it so u cant "be" competitive anymore unless compensation is placed elsewhere.

I mean thats why its a talent isnt it? On fights you can capitalize on it, you take it, fights you cant, you dont necessarily have to. Ironically on the fights i can get the full use of it, i do much better than those i cant.

I do think it stinks u basically have to "blow" your defensive to be offensive, but its interesting and adds a choice as well depending on situation.

time will tell i suppose.

[Ambereldus]

Its probably a step in the right direction because it means less of our damage is reliant on boss AoEs and/or standing in bad. It'll reduce the variance between fights where you can/can't safely get the full value of Karma. It also opens up RoP and TTS for utility in M+ without sacrificing a tonne of damage.

Logs are showing windwalker in a decent spot right now, so the nerf to Good Karma should put us around the middle of the pack without factoring in any other class nerfs/buffs. Even if less than ideal, its still not the worst place to be, and it leaves room to blanket-buff our rotational abilities if we end up too low...but I'm probably kidding myself in that regard.

[Alvito]

interesting interpretation of fine. If you like having no niche and hanging by the bottom. Sure. Fine. To each their own though. If your pushing the limits of the class, have played it for years, and put in a ridiculous amount of effort for little return..

fact of the matter is, if they dont like it - why was it a thing all of legion with the cloak? Why did it get baked in to a talent tree? How did it even make it live? As it is we scale poorly, add this and .. well you heard it here first.

Check out uldir stats, last i checked we were pretty dead center in its current state. For the genius among us, that means that other adjustments withstanding, we go downward.

thats my take on it. to each their own.

That row shouldn't have any sugnificant dps gains to it and certainly shouldn't be what it currently is. It is foolish that the version of good karma made it to live. As for what they might do who knows, I am sure they will slightly buff the dmg of something else if they do anything at all.

[Yhcti]

I hate having to rely on karma for dps so getting rid of that part is a warm eelcome. Id also love a little boost to our sustain. We go top middle top middle repeat until boss dies so where we place depends on how long the fight is lol. Massively puts me off playing my Monk, hell id rather log my SV Hunter.

[Siphonfilter20]

Been playing a monk since day 1 Mists of Pandaria... At 364 ilvl think I'm finally done, gone from feeling competitive at the start of BFA to slowly watching my position on the DPS meter getting lower and lower... Watching our best trait get what, 4 nerfs now? and now Karma too?

I'm sorry, But I'm done. Not spending another expansion while blizzard realizes they were too harsh and slowly tunes us back (like Legion).

Time to level a hunter and mindlessly top DPS for an expansion #ClassBalance

[La]

interesting interpretation of fine. If you like having no niche and hanging by the bottom. Sure. Fine. To each their own though. If your pushing the limits of the class, have played it for years, and put in a ridiculous amount of effort for little return..

fact of the matter is, if they dont like it - why was it a thing all of legion with the cloak? Why did it get baked in to a talent tree? How did it even make it live? As it is we scale poorly, add this and .. well you heard it here first.

Check out uldir stats, last i checked we were pretty dead center in its current state. For the genius among us, that means that other adjustments withstanding, we go downward.

thats my take on it. to each their own.

I am honestly surprised how much effort WW have to do for the very eeeh DPS that is given as a reward. Whereas a DH is probably the easiest melee in the game and does a ridiculous amount of ST/AOE. Honestly, the whole double resource of the spec, energy specifically, is its own frustration. Though, I suppose that is because Blizzard has abandoned the idea that a class or spec being difficult should mean they're capable of doing more DPS as a reward than a braindead easy spec.

You have to put in a lot of work to get the ST that these "sims" set you to, with a lot of proper use of CDs, and if you do it wrong and get fucked by a boss mechanic, that's the end of your DPS. Hell, every time I have to do AOE as a WW, I die a little inside.

[Caprix]

Yeah WW is sooo bad right now after that huuuuge nerf /s
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...e=7&dataset=90

[klepp0906]

Yeah WW is sooo bad right now after that huuuuge nerf /s
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...e=7&dataset=90

what nerf? it hasnt gone in. its usually ~our 3rd most dmging ability. Extrapolate.

And yea, thats representative of the top players, aka in the top raid groups with fast killtimes getting up "near" the top in its current state.

I will admit theyve moved up a few slots from middle to lower/upper but has little bearing on the issue i brought up. Nevermind the work required situationally, the rollercoaster ride of dps peaks and troughs, and the ae, or lackthereof ;p

Course the aforementioned are a complete different topic so thats on me >.<

FFR u want to use the largest sample size you can which is the 2 week option, and lower your % to 80 if you want the "big" picture. That weeds out the so called "shitters" and gives you a better idea of the spec as a whole, encompassing a few bad raid comps, a few errors, as well as top tier circumstances. Doing so obviously only moves us down another spot or two, so cant argue against the spec being competitive in general, but again, not really what this is about.

Besides, ww scales poorly. we're in the first raid. one way to go from here :P Another topic - again. Its early, brain not firing pre-coffee.

[Parhelion]

I want to be rewarded for excellent performance, not only by getting gear, but by confirmation that my contribution was important to my raid group.
If I can't bring utility, I should be compensated by doing higher DPS than those that can provide utility. It's as simple as that. We had this, in Argus. And everyone wanted a monk if they could get one.

Our utility is mobility. And that's our only utility. We can move faster and further with raid-wide distance-based raid damage debuffs, for example. We can solo orbs on G'huun. That's a net DPS loss. I don't want to be that derp that pads meters and not use the only utility I bring.

[Caprix]

what nerf? it hasnt gone in. its usually ~our 3rd most dmging ability. Extrapolate.

And yea, thats representative of the top players, aka in the top raid groups with fast killtimes getting up "near" the top in its current state.

I will admit theyve moved up a few slots from middle to lower/upper but has little bearing on the issue i brought up. Nevermind the work required situationally, the rollercoaster ride of dps peaks and troughs, and the ae, or lackthereof ;p

Course the aforementioned are a complete different topic so thats on me >.<

FFR u want to use the largest sample size you can which is the 2 week option, and lower your % to 80 if you want the "big" picture. That weeds out the so called "shitters" and gives you a better idea of the spec as a whole, encompassing a few bad raid comps, a few errors, as well as top tier circumstances. Doing so obviously only moves us down another spot or two, so cant argue against the spec being competitive in general, but again, not really what this is about.

Besides, ww scales poorly. we're in the first raid. one way to go from here :P Another topic - again. Its early, brain not firing pre-coffee.

Yeah i should have quoted, i was responding to the message complaining that he goes "lower and lower on the meters". So i only linked last week to take the nerf to the BoK trait into account. You can have a look and the position of the WW doesn't change much if you lower the performance decile.

[RobertMugabe]

I want to be rewarded for excellent performance, not only by getting gear, but by confirmation that my contribution was important to my raid group.
If I can't bring utility, I should be compensated by doing higher DPS than those that can provide utility. It's as simple as that. We had this, in Argus. And everyone wanted a monk if they could get one.

Our utility is mobility. And that's our only utility. We can move faster and further with raid-wide distance-based raid damage debuffs, for example. We can solo orbs on G'huun. That's a net DPS loss. I don't want to be that derp that pads meters and not use the only utility I bring.

Ring of Peace is gonna become more useful after this "nerf" (well it's more of a fix and in PVP a buff).

[Asrialol]

what nerf? it hasnt gone in. its usually ~our 3rd most dmging ability. Extrapolate.

And yea, thats representative of the top players, aka in the top raid groups with fast killtimes getting up "near" the top in its current state.

I will admit theyve moved up a few slots from middle to lower/upper but has little bearing on the issue i brought up. Nevermind the work required situationally, the rollercoaster ride of dps peaks and troughs, and the ae, or lackthereof ;p

Course the aforementioned are a complete different topic so thats on me >.<

FFR u want to use the largest sample size you can which is the 2 week option, and lower your % to 80 if you want the "big" picture. That weeds out the so called "shitters" and gives you a better idea of the spec as a whole, encompassing a few bad raid comps, a few errors, as well as top tier circumstances. Doing so obviously only moves us down another spot or two, so cant argue against the spec being competitive in general, but again, not really what this is about.

Besides, ww scales poorly. we're in the first raid. one way to go from here :P Another topic - again. Its early, brain not firing pre-coffee.

Why on earth would you look at logs sub 90%? Do we care about how the spec does in the hands of bad players?

Can you explain how WW scales and why it's bad - thoroughly?

[jasdasm]

Why on earth would you look at logs sub 90%? Do we care about how the spec does in the hands of bad players?

Can you explain how WW scales and why it's bad - thoroughly?

do we care how the spec looks when the stars align ?

[apinksquash]

Why on earth would you look at logs sub 90%?

Because sometimes the top logs are from people cheesing something for the sake of logs. For example: this tier our warrior got a top 20 ranking on a fight, but it was because we were enabling him to do so by letting him ignore fight mechanics and making sure we healed him through it, and also lusting when it was best for him rather than the raid as a whole. The longer a raid is up, the more likely you'll have teams do cheezy stuff for ranks.

[Pratt]

I actually think it's fun and unique to stand in the fire to deal damage instead of pressing blackout kick for the millionth time.