It’s time to remove character leveling

[Orby]

I always wonder if the idea of leveling seemed a bit dated now days. Leveling to me is never the issue though, leveling is actually the eaiest part of WoW. But I do wonder if you take leveling away, you need to somehow balance all the content.

The numbers on leveling is getting ridiculous though, how long before we have to level from 1 - 200?

[Eleccybubb]

I always wonder if the idea of leveling seemed a bit dated now days. Leveling to me is never the issue though, leveling is actually the eaiest part of WoW. But I do wonder if you take leveling away, you need to somehow balance all the content.

The numbers on leveling is getting ridiculous though, how long before we have to level from 1 - 200?

How is the idea of character levels in an RPG dated?

It's one of the many core mechanics of an RPG.

[Coombs]

For what WoW is now I agree. No reason to level for a themepark Destiny RNG experience. Just have a required linear story path for your demi god to go through, think Uncharted, and then come out into the world to participate in the Massive Solo Online Sometimes Role Playing Game with skinner box mechanics and forever endless loops of the same system.

[Topornic]

They definitely need to space out rewards more and add something in the later levels, but if anything it needs to be made about twice as long as it is now.

Fuck no. It is long already after all the revamps and changes and right now it's a pain to level Allied Races if you have already levelled a few toons (14+ here).
Unless they boost heirlooms like a fuckton it would be the worst they could do to even make it longer than it already is.

The best way would be to make levelling really hard and long naked (w/o looms) but super easy peasy if equipped with heirlooms (make them give 100% xp each and 1000% damage in pve or something in that manner).


However I agree that they need to stop removing spells and abilities because as of now there is nothing really exciting about gaining levels beyond 80-ish. (And hell even past 60 there are a handful abilities that come around + a few talents).

[Deleted]

A major overhaul would be very welcome. The current leveling system has a lot of large, obvious problems, which are hurting player retention and new player influx. In the long term, it's been hurting player enjoyment and business.

- The leveling game is entirely different from the endgame. Potential players who might like the endgame,end up not actually getting there if they're bored by the leveling.
- The leveling system takes too long as an 'entry to the game' mechanism and is too weak of a system to be the core of the game
- It's hard to recommend the game to friends, because it can take weeks before you can even play together.
- The story you experience during leveling is a confusing mixture of different timelines and feels terrible. It's hard to get invested in a story that makes no sense and is constantly interrupted by irrelevant fluff.
- The things you do and the decisions you make while leveling barely influence anything in the end game
- The strange scaling mechanism in place now, often makes you feel like you're losing power. There are few meaningful rewards you obtain while leveling
- Levels on mobs will always be weird and ruin immersion. Why are important story characters like the lich king easier to beat than random 120 bears? Why is a level 1 bear so much weaker than a level 120 bear?
- A significant part of the leveling process still consists of awful "gather 12 boar tusks" while we're meanwhile ignoring lots of actually cool content
- So much good content is completely irrelevant when you're at the max level. It's a giant waste of development time. It's not just unnecessary, but the level gap makes it boring and uninteresting too. 99% of old raid and dungeon fights offer no challenge whatsoever to max level players.
- Leveling is widely considered way too easy, offering very little in terms of a challenge. There's also a severe lack of extra challenging content to pursue while leveling to gain some rewards/ speed up the process.
- We have essentially two leveling systems, the level system, and the gearing up system once you hit max level. There's no obvious reason why we should have two systems.
- The leveling aspect of new expansions takes a ton of development time and costs a lot, many would prefer to shift a lot of this towards better end game content

Now, honestly, I'm not sure if there's a good, doable solution to this that works and respects existing content. But I imagine that a much better solution would include getting rid of player and mob levels entirely and instead purely focus on gear level. New story lines can still easily be made relevant without leveling. They can unlock dungeons, provide gear, provide access to new regions, give rep, etc.

[bonewax]

It's a big game. End gamers own a part of it. So do people who level. I'm quite sure you don't need to be reminded of this but "what matters" in the game is not up to you.

Leveling from 1 to whatever could be a lot better though. Just need to keep the pressure up.

If what matters in the game isnt up to the people who PAY for it and PLAY it then that game is destined to fail. Time after time we've seen blizzard hardline choices THEY think we like and in the end it turns out to be a mistake. If blizzard wants to say "fuck you" when we voice our opinion on how the game is made then i wont shed a tear when that game goes right down the toilet. Dont believe me? Look at the sub loss from WOD.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not irrelevant. Blizz lets people pay to skip it since people like you think it's irrelevant.

Leveling IS irrelevant. Its a clever way to spew out their lore in a way that MAKES you do it. There's nothing you do while leveling that helps you in the end game, its a carrot on a stick play that blizzard has mastered and its time to just get rid of it.

[SNES-1990]

They should reduce the number of quests and make them give more EXP instead.

With fewer quests, they could make them more interesting and inventive. Quality over quantity.

[Druitz]

Pure casuals still enjoy leveling. This is one of the activites they do after lfr raiding and daily random hc clear.

Sadly casuals players are big group in wow and they will not remove leveling because better players dislike (like me)

Also leveling should be nerfed every new expansion. We got 120 levels already and we will have even more.

[Lex Icon]

They should reduce the number of quests and make them give more EXP instead.

With fewer quests, they could make them more interesting and inventive. Quality over quantity.

kinda like how swtor did? they split up the main quests and side quests in different colors to let you know which is what and made sure you could level just by doing the main quests if you wanted.

[Niwes]

Of course that’s why it exists. Everything in the entire game is now designed with a single priority: the time-played metric. Everything is time gated to all hell - heritage armor, leveling, rep grinds, PVP gear, LFR wing releases. Literally EVERY aspect of the game focuses not on player enjoyment but player engagement; those are two vastly different things.

The current dev team is incapable or unwilling to design in any other way. I don’t know how much of this comes from on high but it’s 100% clear that Ion’s priority is to keep padding his own bank account rather than actually improve the product. Once it completely tanks he will move on to “new challenges” and all that crap, leaving a desiccated husk behind.

i am not that convinced that Ion is not at the same point you are. He played that game a long time. And he always was more a hardcore player that way more targeted a wow that is really not like modern wow. I for myself believe that he never would design a game that way by himself personally (if he even plays the game anymore, i dont believe that).

but the reality is: as a game director he have to serve the shareholders, he have to make most profit and he have to make good quarter numbers. nothing of this will make great games nor will be in common with what wow possible should be in his own mind.

so, dont believe too much that Ion not think the same as you or some of the community do, but never will act that way, because he is nothing more or less than a slave to „directions“ of a company to make most profit.

[theossy]

Nah, it shouldn't be removed

[Sevyvia]

It’s serving no purpose other than a time gate to end content. Nothing is being added as a reward for obtaining right at max level. No new spells. No talents. Nothing. In MOP and WoD we had new spells. Cata and before we had trees to unlock which felt the most rewarding and diverse. Now we iust get to max just to unlock ..Nothing. What’s next? 135?

It's time for you to find another game.

[bonewax]

i am not that convinced that Ion is not at the same point you are. He played that game a long time. And he always was more a hardcore player that way more targeted a wow that is really not like modern wow. I for myself believe that he never would design a game that way by himself personally (if he even plays the game anymore, i dont believe that).

but the reality is: as a game director he have to serve the shareholders, he have to make most profit and he have to make good quarter numbers. nothing of this will make great games nor will be in common with what wow possible should be in his own mind.

so, dont believe too much that Ion not think the same as you or some of the community do, but never will act that way, because he is nothing more or less than a slave to „directions“ of a company to make most profit.

Ion is activision's bitch now. Why do you think the core creators of this game left after activision came in?

[Pua]

Levelling is almost wholly ruined now, to the stage of near pointlessness. There are multiple issues that, particularly for new players, exasperate a fundamentally broken game experience. Will we see it fixed?

I doubt it. The entire game needs a meaningful reboot in order to solve some of these issues, but it's clear that the developers believe it's now a question of forgetting what happened before an expansion and making that what you're selling. Exclusively.

Honestly, I think it's a key reason for the vanilla demand.

[Nuggsy]

It’s serving no purpose other than a time gate to end content. Nothing is being added as a reward for obtaining right at max level. No new spells. No talents. Nothing. In MOP and WoD we had new spells. Cata and before we had trees to unlock which felt the most rewarding and diverse. Now we iust get to max just to unlock ..Nothing. What’s next? 135?

Of course leveling is shit. Why do you think they locked the racial armors behind it? It's basically the only way they can get people to level new characters anymore. Thank god the original races don't have to go through that bullshit.

[Cows For Life]

Can we remove gear too?

It's just a time sink to make me work at to do the hardest content!

I mean if the enemies are going to scale up and get stronger when you get stronger gear...

[Lochton]

It’s serving no purpose other than a time gate to end content. Nothing is being added as a reward for obtaining right at max level. No new spells. No talents. Nothing. In MOP and WoD we had new spells. Cata and before we had trees to unlock which felt the most rewarding and diverse. Now we iust get to max just to unlock ..Nothing. What’s next? 135?

From the mouth of Blizzard themselves: “90% of new players never make it past level 10.”.

How about, no?

I like to level, it is PART of the RPG experience..

[MoanaLisa]

If what matters in the game isnt up to the people who PAY for it and PLAY it then that game is destined to fail.

Thank you for making my case: The game is big and not everyone paying for it cares about end game.

[Kokolums]

I think its nice they added some mog reward for leveling up again.

[Kelathos]

1: Update Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. Cataclysm style, keep the content and story fresh and relevant.
2: When players hit level 60, they auto boost up to the latest expansion. For BFA, you need to level from 1-60 -> 110-120.

By making all previous expansions optional, and keeping the leveling route fresh, the player experience will be improved and we'll cut at least 48 hours /played off the route.