[Spoiler] The Alliance does X in Zuldazar and Baine's immidiate reaction is:

[Lorgar Aurelian]

@Caerule
>Join a faction that routinely shouts victory or death
>Perplexed when people don't like a character that will actually accept losing.

the horde is constantly losing and not death the only one who had the balls to go though with it was garrosh.

[Mixxy]

Negotiating from position weakness if you don't have anything to give it will never work.

It's called 'surrender' and it's literally the smartest thing you can do in a war you have no chance of winning.

The current trajectory for the Horde, as Baine sees it, is: "Start a war we can't possibly win, never give up, get completely wiped out by fighting to the last man standing."

He wants the Horde to not be wiped out.


Mind you, it won't be. There's gonna be some stupid ex-machina that gives the Horde a sudden massive advantage in 8.2. But Baine doesn't know that. No one in-universe knows that. It's not like the Horde can go "Okay we lost this fight but the Naga or something will come in and destroy the Kul'tiran fleet and put us back on equal footing before the Alliance has a chance to finish us off!"

Right now, from the in-universe perspective... simply surrendering to the Alliance - lead by the most peaceful, forgiving boi that's ever existed, mind - and accepting their terms is the best way to minimise the Horde's inevitable loss.

[Melusine]

The Alliance kills the King of the Zandalari, allies in the negotiation table of sorts, and his immidiate thought process as someone who is suppose to be part of the Horde and to support his allies is...



What the actual hell is going with this guy? Why does Blizzard KEEP writing him this way?

So, perhaps it was a bad idea to burn the World tree, and launch an offensive out of nowhere, for no clear reason. When the Alliance assaulted the Zandalari capital city, that was PAYBACK for Teldrassil. That was the 7th Legion telling the Horde in no uncertain terms that you fuck with the Alliance, it won't just roll over and take the loss. The Assault on Dazar'alor was not a Blitzkrieg or unprovoked attack. I'm actually amazed that Blizzard wrote it so that the 7th legion didn't fuck around, and immediately shelled a capital city and manages to kill Rastakhan in the process.


As for Baine's reaction to it, he knows who started this conflict. He knows the justification for their primary assault was weak. I don't think he was ultimately surprised when the Alliance came back to fuck their shit up. On top of everything else, HE HAS SEEN WHAT SYLVANAS IS ALL ABOUT. In her own way, she is even more terrible than Garrosh was. she doesn't hold the key to the Horde's salvation. She holds the weapon of the horde's own destruction, and possibly the rise of a new forsaken. I don't blame him for being afraid of this.

[Lupinemancer]

The Alliance kills the King of the Zandalari, allies in the negotiation table of sorts, and his immidiate thought process as someone who is suppose to be part of the Horde and to support his allies is...



What the actual hell is going with this guy? Why does Blizzard KEEP writing him this way?

I know, I really hate Nathanos too and his blind anger, it's really unjustified. He's like the kid who hates something because some told him it's bad, and has never experieced it himself.
Talking about "the treachery of the Alliance" when the Horde is all about treason and backstabbing itself while the Alliance isn't. Besides, how can anyone betray a faction they aren't even allied with in the first place? Nathanos is such a bad character and we need to get rid of him soon.

[steelballfc]

Baine, at his core, is a worthless coward, a subversive, and a traitor who has never looked out for the interests of the Horde.

someone give this guy a cookie

[grexly75]

I find it quite interesting how blatantly psychotic some of the posts in this thread are.. One character in a game mind you, tries to find a way to stop anymore bloodshed from happening and he is called a coward for doing so..

Makes me think that there are quite a few blood thirsty lunatics in this thread, and if they act like this from playing a game makes me wonder what they are like in real life.. And if they think differently if this was a real life situation..

[steelballfc]

It's borderline disturbing how you can almost hear him thinking about Anduin behind most of the lines of dialogue he gets to utter.

he is probably masturbate while thinking about auduin

[Zephre]

Because Baine is a spineless coward and I'm sick of it, he's a bloody warrior, Cairne at least had the balls to fight for what he believes in even if it ended in his death, Baine sits in a corner writing love notes to Anduin and telling him how that mean Sylvanas hurt his feelings.

[Combatbutler]

I know, I really hate Nathanos too and his blind anger, it's really unjustified. He's like the kid who hates something because some told him it's bad, and has never experieced it himself.

He hates the Alliance for the same reason most forsaken do, shunning them after their resurrection and hunting them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOODDysMvgs

[Deleted]

People who claim the Horde had no reasons to attack the Alliance clearly have not read the Horde novella. Or they just ignore it, because it doesn't fit the preferred, personal agenda and view.

[Mixxy]

He hates the Alliance for the same reason most forsaken do, shunning them after their resurrection and hunting them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOODDysMvgs

People love to bring up the fact that Sylvanas tried to rejoin the Alliance but couldn't. These same people also love to ignore the fact that the Alliance was literally being led by Onyxia at that point.
If the Horde aren't to be held accountable for the choices made by the likes of Blackhand, Garrosh and Gul'dan... why is the Alliance being held accountable for the actions of the Broodmother of the Black Dragonflight?


Also Sylvanas' messengers during that time weren't even reaching Stormwind. But hey why sweat the details.

- - - Updated - - -

People who claim the Horde had no reasons to attack the Alliance clearly have not read the Horde novella. Or they just ignore it, because it doesn't fit the preferred, personal agenda and view.

"The Alliance blame the current Horde for the actions of the past. What monsters."
*In the exact fucking same paragraph:*
"Remember when the Alliance held Orcs in internment camps after you literally tried to take over the world? What monsters."

It's not that they don't have a reason. It's that they don't have a good reason.

[Azurenys]

Good thing that your post literally bursts with knowledge, arguments and mature behaviour. Impressive.

I wouldn't want to post a long and argumented reply just to have notifications about people quoting me and writing FOR THA WHORDEE and BAINE IS A CUCK and what not... the maturity of this forum is beyond salvation

[Octavius]

Baine, at his core, is a worthless coward, a subversive, and a traitor who has never looked out for the interests of the Horde.

It's not so much that he's being written this way, because there's no other way to write him, that's just who he is. Aside from Christie Golden and people who really dig non-toxic masculinity, everyone else hates him.

Dude. Pls, just once, use the brain and not that "masculinity" concept of yours. At this point, the alliance controls the seas, and is kicking back in Kalimdor too. In patch 8.2 the situation will surely return even, but only because some shit and very unlikely plot twist from sylvanas like was jaina on a flying boat, but for now, the horde is fucked. I know Baine has been sometimes irritating in the past with too much diplomacy and unwillingness to act, but this time, dude is totally right. At the current state of affairs, negotiations with the aim of keeping ashenvale and northern kalimdor (Which would assure horde's future prosperity), hoping the alliance has had enough and is just ok with rebuilding Stromgarde, Gilneas and some parts of Lordaeron, are a smart course of action. The time to propose the thing, on the other hand, could've been better, definitely not at Rasty's funeral.

[Venziir]

... Seriously? You can't understand Baine? The Horde is loosing, Rastakhan is dead, the navy destroyed and most of Dazar'alor lies in ruins. Most of the Zandalari gods are dead, and their holy order is destroyed: the Horde is loosing the war, fast. Baine is the only one who seems to be aware of this fact.

[Mixxy]

... Seriously? You can't understand Baine? The Horde is loosing, Rastakhan is dead, the navy destroyed and most of Dazar'alor lies in ruins: the Horde is loosing the war, fast. Baine is the only one who seems to be aware of this fact.

Even Sylvanas' #1 fanboy Nathanos seems to realise it. I mean, he literally says that the Alliance has victory within their grasp.

If even that angsty, psychotic edgelord can see that the Horde is on the cusp of destruction, I don't get why the folks in these forums can't understand.

[Synros]

Sylvanas' reaction to this whole situation shows how delusional she is, and how she's a detriment to the Horde's existence.

She razes 2 Alliance cities, deliberately targets and murders countless civilians before they can even flee, uses chemical weapons on Alliance and Horde, and raises the corpses of her own people to serve as cannon fodder. Then, when the Alliance finally get sick of her bullshit and retaliates, she just can't comprehend it. Baine is 100% right in this situation. Negotiations work. It's why Baine is generally respected among the Alliance, even though he is considered an "enemy". The Horde is divided and has lost all honor under Sylvanas, and the other leaders of the Horde know this. Hell, even Nathanos is starting to realize she's a crazy bitch. EVERYTHING the Alliance has done in BFA so far has been a direct result of her actions and war crimes, and they are totally justified to do so.

I can't wait till Sylvanas' corpse is paraded around the the streets of Orgrimmar, and I can finally feel some pride in playing Horde again.

[Hubbl3]

I wouldn't want to post a long and argumented reply just to have notifications about people quoting me and writing FOR THA WHORDEE and BAINE IS A CUCK and what not... the maturity of this forum is beyond salvation

On the other side we have people constantly calling Sylvi a Waifu and everyone supporting her jacks off to her. Maturity in this forum is dead.

[Synros]

You wish.

10 chars

I hope I can get my salt extracting device ready before they finally kill Sylvanas off.

- - - Updated - - -

Or you are really bad at noticing patterns.

Sylvanas' meta is:
1. Being cunning
2. Being calculated
3. Being deceptive
4. Attaining her goals through ploys and traps

It's how she achieved nearly every victory ever since Warcraft 3. Every time again and again she makes her enemies believe she is losing or that they won, only to surprise them and show them it's actually the other way around.

I mean... the Battle for Undercity only happened one patch ago... Some people have really bad memories.

Perhaps you should learn how to read, and you'd see the reasons I gave as to why she's a detriment to the Horde... Her being cunning and deceptive means absolutely nothing, when she's deliberately murdering how own people to achieve her personal goals. I mean, it's really not that hard to understand, dude...

[Toppy]

Thank you Golden, now kindly leave this fucking franchise before you ruin it some more.

[Combatbutler]

People love to bring up the fact that Sylvanas tried to rejoin the Alliance but couldn't. These same people also love to ignore the fact that the Alliance was literally being led by Onyxia at that point.
If the Horde aren't to be held accountable for the choices made by the likes of Blackhand, Garrosh and Gul'dan... why is the Alliance being held accountable for the actions of the Broodmother of the Black Dragonflight?

This isn't really about Sylvanas, right or wrong is entirely beside the point of this argument, the forsaken hate humans for shunning and hunting them, Humans hate them for being unnatural and for their deeds under the scourge and everything escalated from there. This is more how both sides feel about each other