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  1. #21
    don't you have a containment board for this shit

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    don't you have a containment board for this shit
    i will try to not make more threads for today...i promisse...
    Last edited by mmocaf0660f03c; 2018-10-03 at 04:37 AM.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! crakerjack's Avatar
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    I don't really agree with what you're saying because all those aspects of vanilla are still in the game. I can still level, farm mats, increase my professions, run dungeons, do attunements for siege/Kings rest and raid. What made vanilla great (and would never work now based on what direction the game is going) was that gear progressions was drastically slower. It wasn't uncommon to go months without ever looting an epic. Look at the game now, epics all over the place to the point where they invented scrapping so that you had something to do with them other than selling/DE'ing. Rewards stop feeling like rewards when you begin to expect them. You'll find the average player getting upset that they didn't get a specific piece of loot rather than getting happy over a slight .1% upgrade.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Now my memory of 2005 is foggy due to it being 13 years ago but wasn't there a time where there was no global chat channels at all? Like trade was by-city and LFG was a community-created thing rather than an official channel?

    Either way, something something barrens chat. Boom, Asrialol's argument disarmed.
    Yes, but it's not like there were many people hanging around in Darnassus. You just had all the BS in IF/Org/SW, and then in unified trade when that was added, and in LFG when that was global, and inevitably in any custom channel people made to try and establish a useful channel, because the info would get leaked to the realm's idiots and then just become more trash clogging up the chat log.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I don't really agree with what you're saying because all those aspects of vanilla are still in the game. I can still level, farm mats, increase my professions, run dungeons, do attunements for siege/Kings rest and raid. What made vanilla great (and would never work now based on what direction the game is going) was that gear progressions was drastically slower. It wasn't uncommon to go months without ever looting an epic. Look at the game now, epics all over the place to the point where they invented scrapping so that you had something to do with them other than selling/DE'ing. Rewards stop feeling like rewards when you begin to expect them. You'll find the average player getting upset that they didn't get a specific piece of loot rather than getting happy over a slight .1% upgrade.
    What im trying to say is that back then it was acceptable to spend...a week without receiving an upgrade.
    And today thats just not acceptable in any way or form.

  6. #26
    But I don't want to lose my job.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    But I don't want to lose my job.
    You dont have to lose your job xD
    You just have to spend weeks without seeing an upgrade.

    Have the mind of a Monk.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    What im trying to say is that back then it was acceptable to spend...a week without receiving an upgrade.
    And today thats just not acceptable in any way or form.
    I'm happy to spend a week or whatever working on "side-projects" like professions, rep grinds, finishing up quests/stories or whatever

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    What im trying to say is that back then it was acceptable to spend...a week without receiving an upgrade.
    And today thats just not acceptable in any way or form.
    If you raided all your upgrades were in raids. Since most gear was locked to your class you were able to gear pretty fast if you had a raid on farm. Issues were weapons. Especially when you were competing with other raiders with a lot of dkp saved up since they were fully geared in tier armor.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    My progress isn’t based on getting epics any more then when I started playing in tbc. The main person I know who played during classic isnt an nt epic chasers either he apperntly cleared MC as ret pretending to be a healer by wearing a dress and throwing out heals between hitting stuff.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    My progress isn’t based on getting epics any more then when I started playing in tbc. The main person I know who played during classic isnt an nt epic chasers either he apperntly cleared MC as ret pretending to be a healer by wearing a dress and throwing out heals between hitting stuff.
    Thats a legendary story lol

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Thats a legendary story lol
    i can't verify it because hes not the kind of guy who takes screen shots but knowing other things hes done and the fact that he played a ton in classic i find it easy to believe him.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Classic everything you did was progress because once you hit 60 all you had to do was progress.

    And that's a bad thing, actually.

    60 was the worst time for WoW because your endgame options were as follows: BG with Randos for PvP ranks, which you had to do X amount of wins a week or risk losing rank, or raiding where you were expected to raid multiple nights a week, provide your own materials for the guild alchemists to make you your multiple required potions, and also keep up to date on crafted epics.





    Now I'm not gonna say that the system in Legion and BFA are good, in fact I agree that the fact you can join a dungeon and get literally no loot is a problem. But the solution is NOT to roll the clock back to 2004. The solution is to bring back freaking Justice/Valor points. It's not a dinosaur, it's not a bad system, literally that's what I'm doing at endgame in FF14 is farming their version of Justice/Valor. And every roulette I run has value because I'm getting 50-100 Tomestones just for queueing up.
    Lol keep up on crafted epics? If you beleive tbat was a thing you obviously didn't play during Vanilla.

  14. #34
    Back in vanilla, you were on a realm and raid guilds had a pecking order. Guild A was on top, Guild B was #2, Guilds C & D were close and duking it out for the third spot. Then you had a collection of guilds fighting for 4th. Progress meant increasing your guild’s prestige on your realm. When guild C downed a raid boss before guild B it was big news on the realm. Guild leaders might exchange congrats and thank yous. Maybe guild A fell apart and the rest scrambled to establish a new pecking order. YOU could become part of this story on your realm by joining one of the better guilds or lifting an entirely new one into the fray. And thats just PvE. There was a pecking order of PvP guilds as well.

    This provided tons of social play, ways to progress as a character, and things to do.

    Today there are no realms. Realm pride is dead. When it comes to raiding, we care about Method, maybe a couple of other guilds and thats it. Todays game feels so much more shallow without realm play. Cross realm REALLY sucks.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2018-10-03 at 03:41 AM.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    YES! Bring back Justice/valor system. It was great. Sucks they removed it, never understood why.
    I know that's right.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    You say that as if the global channels and trade chat weren't trash talking, memes, and BS 24/7 during Vanilla.
    Barrens Chat. Never forget. We just didn't call the Chuck Norris jokes and endless diatribes about Mankrik's wife memes back then.

  17. #37
    Well, WoW basically gutted its RPG aspect with swift leveling and all the quality of life additions. In essence, it's a much different game now than it was before.

    There will always be fans of the RPG aspect of classic WoW and there will be fans of the current iteration of WoW basically devoid of the RPG aspect with both having their set of haters.

  18. #38
    Your example is so subjective, and simply not true for mid / low tier progressing guild at end legion for example.

    A lot of guild wants to get cutting edge, and locked argus.
    Not a single raid member gain any raid loot by default what so ever for weeks.
    The raid obviously progress from P1 not consistent, to P1 some what consistent, to totally smooth P2 but P1 still not consistent, to people have no idea WTF they are doing on P3, to everybody learnt to res in syn to killing Argus. This is the core defintion of progress, with zero loot for all even.

  19. #39
    Credit where credit is due.

    This for once isn't a fucking stupid thread, Shadowpunkz.

    Proud of you.

    I feel like Vanilla could take a lot of the liberties with progression that it die because the 1-60 cap took as long as it did. Under no circumstances could you go from character creation to levelcap in one sitting on current content. This, aside from slowing things down just by raw numbers, slowed to overall tempo of the game down because people didn't feel pressured to blast all the way to cap in one sitting.

    Personally I prefer Live's endgame better (raiding specifically), but there is something to be said from being able to take your time and not feel pressured to go-go-go nonstop. Nobody expected you to be levelcapped even within the first ten days of a server coming up, let alone ten hours. This let economies and communities build up at every point along the way to cap.

    There literally isn't enough time for that anymore, but I don't think that's a bad thing with the current design of the game in mind.

    Progression is measured in Epics, Boss kills, and + keys now because the fast-pace of the game doesn't allow for much else.
    Last edited by Oxford Kama; 2018-10-03 at 06:59 AM.

  20. #40
    The main feature that sets apart modern WoW and classic WoW in terms of progression is how it handles scaling, difficult content, and specifically barriers to that content.

    Modern WoW is development-time-gated, tightly scheduled, and the content is independant of the difficulty. (Everything scales to 4 or more difficulties, or just adjusts itself to your character). The upshot is that you can do all the content pretty much instantly, and progress only makes it possible to do the same content on higher difficulty levels.

    Classic WoW is investment-time-gated, content comes whenever too many have cleared all the content there is, and everything has one, singular, set difficulty. Should you progress your character past that difficulty, the content becomes easy. Until you are ready to take it on, it's gated off by virtue of how difficult it is.

    The reason why people are always dissatisfied with the rewards in the modern game even if it literally rains purples (which it does) is because it just increases your numbers until the next time-gated content comes out, and otherwise doesn't actually do anything at all. That really isn't exciting.

    In the old game, rewards were the keys to more content and more experiences, which was exciting to explore. More experiences with the game necessarily meant you had more... well, experience, therefore better gear commanded more respect. It was okay for it to take a while to progress because progressing far enough meant you went past a tier of content, and everyone agrees a tier of content should ideally last you a couple of months, even today, so people are happy even though it doesn't rain purples.

    It really is that simple. If you wanna fix modern WoW to be more like classic WoW, the first thing you need to do is remove all traces of scaling enemies and gear drops, and give everything static levels. Somehow I doubt that's gonna happen, but I'd love if it did.

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