RIP MM Hunter

[Baine]

Well it was a good run but the spec is officially dead in all areas of the game and 0 changes so far in PTR. The only success so far in bfa is that blizz made something less played than legion survival.

Eh, I think the spec is looking fine.

[Deleted]

Eh, I think the spec is looking fine.

What are you looking at to make that assessment? Because looking at warcraftlogs MM is doing 70% of the DPS of the top performers in Uldir.

[deenman]

Its the sad truth of comunity perception,if a spec is even 0.1% better than everyone on mass thinks the lesser spec is SHIT AND DEAD!blizzard just wants to give BM its time to shine for a bit and its been needed in a long long time,MM has almost always dominated by a large margin,with some tiers having surv maybe perform better but BM almost never.

[Baine]

What are you looking at to make that assessment? Because looking at warcraftlogs MM is doing 70% of the DPS of the top performers in Uldir.

Oh, no other than my own impression. I can understand that extreme min maxers can contemplate every bit of a spec, but overall, on a casual level, the spec plays well.

[Deleted]

Oh, no other than my own impression. I can understand that extreme min maxers can contemplate every bit of a spec, but overall, on a casual level, the spec plays well.

But it really doesn't. The spec has a 2 button rotation and completely ignores its main resource: focus, because it's useless to them since their focus spender does less damage than just spamming steady shot. The spec is fundamentally broken.

[aGit]

you say you are in the 0.1% of the playerbase at the time who cleared naxx40, yet say things like:

Are you saying a 1-2% difference in dps isnt carrying your weight?

At current levels youre talking about 100-150dps. Thats so negligible in a raid of 18 other dps.

0.1% wipes are very real thing and happen quite frequently, not just on progression but farm as well. if the MM in the group is playing sub optimal spec, why not someone else as well then? all of the sudden the 1-2% dps difference is multiplied by however many raiders are playing the specs and talents they want, not the ones bringing the most dps and the 200k wipe becomes a 2m wipe.

i wonder if one of the 8 prot warriors with the 4set felt like not using it on four horseman, because he wanted to use some other piece of gear, how would your group have reacted? "Sure thing brah, it's a game after all. Nevermind the fact that the 39 of us will be screwed by your inability to optimize for the encounter"

i tried checking logs for fetid devourer, what is the actual dps difference between mm and bm, too bad i couldn't because there are 0 logs with MM in it. I wonder why that is?

[Agallion]

you say you are in the 0.1% of the playerbase at the time who cleared naxx40, yet say things like:



0.1% wipes are very real thing and happen quite frequently, not just on progression but farm as well. if the MM in the group is playing sub optimal spec, why not someone else as well then? all of the sudden the 1-2% dps difference is multiplied by however many raiders are playing the specs and talents they want, not the ones bringing the most dps and the 200k wipe becomes a 2m wipe.

i wonder if one of the 8 prot warriors with the 4set felt like not using it on four horseman, because he wanted to use some other piece of gear, how would your group have reacted? "Sure thing brah, it's a game after all. Nevermind the fact that the 39 of us will be screwed by your inability to optimize for the encounter"

i tried checking logs for fetid devourer, what is the actual dps difference between mm and bm, too bad i couldn't because there are 0 logs with MM in it. I wonder why that is?

Sure they are, but they arent all that common and a 0.1% wipe means you were executing mechanics wrong. In the best case for your argument it means the raid didnt have enough dps even if everything was done perfectly, which means you can simply clear later. God forbid. We arent talking about world first.

There was in fact a strategy to do it without 8. Last I checked we werent talking about bleeding edge raiding.

I dont see what no MM at fetid has to do with anything? Just because none are allowed doesnt make that right. There is are survival logs though, how can that be if there is only 1 best?

[NutellaCrepe]

Sims demonstrate the numbers more objectively than my or you experience ever could.

Yes and no. Sim DPS doesn't bring a boss down faster, player's actual performance does. If MM is a spec that does not flow well then it may be much harder for the player to pull sim numbers than they would for other specs. Especially when there is a lot of restriction of movement.

[Agallion]

Yes and no. Sim DPS doesn't bring a boss down faster, player's actual performance does. If MM is a spec that does not flow well then it may be much harder for the player to pull sim numbers than they would for other specs. Especially when there is a lot of restriction of movement.

...Except the player is just following the best order of execution, just as the sim is...

You can add movement into the sim.

[NutellaCrepe]

...Except the player is just following the best order of execution, just as the sim is...

You can add movement into the sim.

Is your arguement that every player plays every spec so perfectly that they actually replicate the sim?

[aGit]

0.1% wipe means you were executing mechanics wrong.

well that is usually the case for progression and on mythic farm, especially on harder bosses, the execution rarely is perfect anyway, atleast for semi hardcores who clear cutting edge in their own time. Add to this players not performing to the best of their ability with the class they are playin, ie playing suboptimal specs, you're not doing anyone any favors.

I dont see what no MM at fetid has to do with anything? Just because none are allowed doesnt make that right. There is are survival logs though, how can that be if there is only 1 best?

Mythrax, G'huun and fetid are all bosses where MM has not appeared at all ( in public logs anyway), if the dps difference of 1-2% didn't matter, why is this?

Survivals sim the highest for all hunter specs. However, it's a melee which is really gimped on a lot of the harder mythic encounters, Zul being an exception, where sub rogues rule the table.

There are 2 survival logs, 0 MM logs, 596 BM logs for M fetid devourer, that should tell the whole tale.

speaking of sims, MM actually sims higher than bm (just going by simcraft.org and my own sims), how come then, MM tops BM on exactly 0 percent of the encounters in uldir? By all means, play what you want, but your claim that 1-2% dps doesn't mater is just plain wrong seeing as it's more like ~10%. You are in essence, being a dick to your raid. Sure, you could find a new guild that allows you to dick around in whatever spec you want. Vice versa, your guild should also try looking for a new hunter.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../19#dataset=90

MM is the dead last, with a way higher than 1-2% difference to bm at 90th percentile.

Sims demonstrate the numbers more objectively than my or you experience ever could.

Mine or yours alone, sure. how about the 400k+ hunter parses from uldir? At this point the empirical data by far outweighs the simulations.