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  1. #81

  2. #82
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    I like the idea of removing it entirely. Shadow is balls deep into this concept which pretty much only works in raids, and not anywhere else. Outdoor questing, PvP, heck even M+ feels like a heavy chore because they keep adding priority targets (Spawns of G'huun, orbs, enraged mobs etc) and give shadow priests almost no viable way to burst stuff down.

    Most of the suggestions have already been covered, but here's my few mini bits (these are just suggestions, I'm not saying ALL need to be added):

    Dot Interaction possibilities:
    1. Mind consumption (1 second cast, 15 second cooldown): consumes up to 4 of your sw: pain and vampiric touches on any targets, and deals 70% of their total damage to the current target.

    2. Mind Spike (30 second cooldown) - deals X damage. When cast on a target already affected by your sw pain and vampiric touch for the first time spreads them to all targets within 8 yards.

    Cooldown possibilities:
    1. Shadow crash - just make this baseline.

    2. Psionic overflow (2 charges, 25 second recharge): For the next 15 seconds all damage you deal to the primary target is also applied at 60% to enemies within 10 yards.
    (Think of this is a ranged blade flurry)

    3. Mindbender - replaces shadow fiend. You summon a powerful beast from the void to cast void bolts at your primary target. Lasts 20 seconds, one minute cooldown. Critical strikes from your mind blast, flay and sear increases the duration of the Mindbender by 2 seconds up to a maximum of 40 seconds.

    4. Apparition army (2 minute cooldown): For the next 30 seconds, your shadowy apparitions spawn at a 200% increased rate and deal 100% more damage. Each apparition increases the damage of the next by 15% up to a maximum of 400%

    Raid utility:
    1. Vampiric embrace made into a proper raid healing cooldown, with about half the efficiency of tranquility or other raidwide healing CDs. 6 minute cooldown. Spell critical strikes reduce cooldown of this spell by 0.5 seconds.

    2. Mana battery - innervate on a second spec please. But make it more like a passive, similar to pally blessings.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by roxfm View Post
    2. Mana battery - innervate on a second spec please. But make it more like a passive, similar to pally blessings.
    Yeah, would be nice utility and make old school people happy. Crossed my mind too when my guild recently made our ret change to holy, very noticeable difference without wisdom. blizz pls

  4. #84
    Mana battery and VE more meaningful

    Yes please, ty

  5. #85
    If they decide to keep the voidform mechanic , they should at the very least make it so you are able to cancel/exit voidform if you so choose to.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    If they decide to keep the voidform mechanic , they should at the very least make it so you are able to cancel/exit voidform if you so choose to.
    Maybe memory is hazy especially since the time i am thinking about was before i actually got access but i think we had that during alpha during the time when voidform was actually an ability you pressed to enter, this was after voidform was something you automatically entered at reaching 100 insanity.

    Could be wrong but i am sure i remember reading discussions about when you would want to actually cancel voidform and talk of cancelaura macros.

    It's probably irelevant now anyway since the only time you would probably want to leave early is right before a boss but they then added that reset resource aura on boss pulls.

    I mean phase changes during bosses is a fair argument but honestly whats the difference between just delaying it. Theres a little "skill" in encounter knowledge that can seperate you from other spriests by not wasting it,much like other classes with their cooldowns and players who just cast cooldowns on cooldown.

  7. #87
    Overthinking it a bit especially since Blizzard has their own in house sims. The hardest part for them to remove Void(which they absolutely should) is replacing the talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    If they decide to keep the voidform mechanic , they should at the very least make it so you are able to cancel/exit voidform if you so choose to.
    Wouldn't object to it being a cooldown you talent into but i think that should be the extent of it.

  8. #88
    Scarab Lord Boricha's Avatar
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    I think you could bake Voidform and StM into one ability and make it a big 5 min CD option for Spriests, but it needs to go away as part of the core rotation. Like I've said many times in these threads, I just want MoP Spriest back tbh.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malix Farwin View Post
    Wouldn't object to it being a cooldown you talent into but i think that should be the extent of it.
    It's just speculation but the complete removal of its spellid in current ptr definitely opens up that door.

    It does give me a bit of excitement thinking voidform could actually be going away, did not see blizzard scrapping it so soon, thought they would be very stubborn in refusing to admit it was flawed.
    @Cyber Lain
    I definitely think this is likely, s2m = activate voidform for x seconds and we go back to shadow form being the norm.
    Last edited by mmoc1448478633; 2018-10-02 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #90
    I actually think Voidform is what makes SPriests fun to play. They were so boring before that, IMHO. I do agree that the way it's implemented sucks though. It could be a 3 min CD or something you transform into automatically at X amount of Insanity (just removing the cast time would work too). But I just love the play-style of trying to stay in Voidform as much as possible. AFAIK, no other class has a mechanic like that and I really enjoy it.

    Another point that someone else mentioned and that I agree with is the lack of spell changing. Would be nice to have something like Meta for DH where our core spells change in VF.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Jngizu View Post
    AFAIK, no other class has a mechanic like that and I really enjoy it.
    Breath of Sindragoa is pretty much melee cleave VF. But there's many more that encourage the same playstyle: Crusade, Storm Elemental, Unlimited Power, Mongoose Bite, Summon Gargoyle, Grimoire of Supremacy, and Nether Portal (esp following up with Tyrant to extend duration).

    Best part? Those are all talents they can opt out of

    (Also, the only impactful change to skills during DH Meta is half cooldown of Blade Dance/Death Sweep. It does turn Chaos Strike into Annihilation, which deals more damage, but is otherwise identical.)
    Last edited by ttylol; 2018-10-03 at 02:51 AM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jngizu View Post
    I actually think Voidform is what makes SPriests fun to play. They were so boring before that, IMHO. I do agree that the way it's implemented sucks though. It could be a 3 min CD or something you transform into automatically at X amount of Insanity (just removing the cast time would work too). But I just love the play-style of trying to stay in Voidform as much as possible. AFAIK, no other class has a mechanic like that and I really enjoy it.

    Another point that someone else mentioned and that I agree with is the lack of spell changing. Would be nice to have something like Meta for DH where our core spells change in VF.
    The question is do you enjoy the visuals or the actual gameplay? If you break down what voidform gives:
    a) Void-eruption: aoe damage on a casted ability
    b) Void bolt - instant cast spell that deals high damage on a short cooldown
    c) stacking haste buff on a resource drain, which you try and upkeep as much as possible.

    They could pretty much remove voidform and insanity altogether and adjust numbers and it'll still be the same thing. As an example:
    a) Void-Eruption (1.5 second cast, [30-40] second Cooldown): You shoot out void bolts at all enemies affect by your swain or vamp touch for X damage.
    b) Void Bolt: Instant cast, [4-8] second cooldown - deals [X] damaqe to your target and adds [Y] seconds to your SW:Pain / VT. Void bolt does double damage to targets below [20/25/30/35]% health
    c) The haste part can be baked into shadowform to remove ramp up and give us a much needed QOL change.

    So really, there's no need for this stupid concept. If they really want it an identity based spell, then make it into a 2/3 minute cooldown that's worth pressing (unlike Shadow Fiend).

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaretic View Post
    How about having this baseline:

    Voidform

    Instant, 25 sec recharge
    Causes your Mind Blast, Mind Flay, and Void Bolt to also strike all enemies within 8 yards of your target for 45% of normal damage for 12 sec.
    Max 2 Charges

    Just like Outlaw, gives us on-demand AoE ala Blade Flurry. Casting Mind Blast reduces it's cooldown by 1 sec. We can get talents to empower this version of Voidform if Blizzard really wants to retain the whole Void theme. Maybe bring back Mass Hysteria as a talent, making it last for the duration of Voidform and stack at a higher damage and pace. Or an ability simlar to Exsanguinate that makes all your dots on all targets tick out 100% faster. I feel like Void Torrent should root the target and apply your dots at 200% damage to make it a cool single-target burst spell for adds (or PvP).

    There's a lot of room for creativity, and I think it's perfectly fine to borrow ideas from other classes.
    That is actually pretty close to what they’ll do, tbh. That’s what I feel

  14. #94
    I just want to add in my 2 cents that I, too, despise Voidform. I HATE it.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by roxfm View Post
    The question is do you enjoy the visuals or the actual gameplay? If you break down what voidform gives:
    a) Void-eruption: aoe damage on a casted ability
    b) Void bolt - instant cast spell that deals high damage on a short cooldown
    c) stacking haste buff on a resource drain, which you try and upkeep as much as possible.
    I like everything you mentioned.

    The changes you proposed are decent but I'd still prefer VoidForm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttylol View Post
    Breath of Sindragoa is pretty much melee cleave VF. But there's many more that encourage the same playstyle: Crusade, Storm Elemental, Unlimited Power, Mongoose Bite, Summon Gargoyle, Grimoire of Supremacy, and Nether Portal (esp following up with Tyrant to extend duration).

    Best part? Those are all talents they can opt out of

    (Also, the only impactful change to skills during DH Meta is half cooldown of Blade Dance/Death Sweep. It does turn Chaos Strike into Annihilation, which deals more damage, but is otherwise identical.)
    Yeah dunno why I forgot BoS. Although I meant as the main class mechanic. But BoS is also one of my favourite spells in the game with the way it works, so it explains why I like VF so much. Honestly, I always found SP pretty boring before Legion. The VF/S2M gameplay is some of the most fun I've had in this game and I really like the VF animation. I do get why people don't like it though. I just think there's a way to fix it that doesn't lead to them removing it.

    As for DH, yes I know it doesn't change much, I meant more the aesthetic part as the other poster mentioned.
    Last edited by Jngizu; 2018-10-03 at 08:07 AM.

  16. #96
    shadow priest's identity has always been a moderate ramp up/DoT class with steady damage, strong against long living adds/council style encounters and a strong execute phase. imo this is core shadow priest and has been this way since wrath basically, and i don't see any reason why we should stray away from this formula personally. since the addition of M+ and it playing a large role in the PvE endgame now, shadow also needs to have some viability in there.

    some quick and imo essential changes that should be made regardless of whether voidform stays as is, is reworked or even removed: twist of fate baseline at current levels, or back to 20%/10sec as a talent. one of these options NEEDS to happen in my mind, either we get our strong execute back or we just get a weaker version baked into the spec but no longer have to choose it

    Mind bomb - just remove shadow crash and add it's damage to mind bomb, technically a nerf to the talent since itll go from a 20sec cd to 30sec, but i think it should be done because shadow crash feels awful to use and shadow needs some AoE/M+ viability baseline, this gives us damage and a stun

    shadowfiend/mindbender - needs to just do more damage to warrant the cd. shadowfiend as a 3min cd is pathetic and always has been, mindbender has also always been meh prior to it granting insanity, but if insanity/voidform goes away (like i want it to) then the damage needs to be looked at. maybe even give it some cleave for m+ purposes

    SW back to baseline obviously, just retarded to move it to a talent

    SW:P should just apply to 1 other enemy within 8 yards. much like sunfire but limited to one enemy. no idea why sunfire is allowed to be a strictly superior version of SW:P

    mind spike reintroduced, functioning basically the same as before it was removed, but should also cleave like 10-20% of it's damage to enemies within 8 yards or something along those lines (maybe baseline, maybe as a talent in some form)

    just simple changes like this would go a long way in improving the spec in it's current state.

    now i would rather remove voidform entirely and revert to mop/wod style of spriest but i know there's zero chance of that happening, so here's my little mini rework of voidform i came up with in 30 minutes because it's fun to think about these things

    Mass hysteria (passive) – every time your VT or SW:P deal damage, you gain 1 stack of mass hysteria, each stack of MH grants you 1% increased damage with VT / SW:P (max 50 stacks, max 2 stacks per sec)
    Voidform (passive)– while you have 50 stacks of mass hysteria, your next mind spike will become empowered and casting mind spike will remove all stacks of mass hysteria and you will enter voidform. Voidform last ~15sec and while in voidform, you gain 10%(?) haste and your Mind blast, mind spike, mind flay, mind sear and shadow word: death abilities are empowered, and you can cast to voidbolt. Mass hysteria stacks cannot be gained during voidform.
    Emp. Mind spike – 30% increased damage, no longer removes DoTs.
    Emp. Mind blast – 30% increased damage, instant and cd reduced by 3 sec
    Emp. Mind flay – 30% increased damage, castable while moving
    Emp. Mind sear – 30% increased damage, 30% increased tick rate
    Emp. SW – 30% increased damage, cooldown reduced by 3 sec
    Voidbolt - basically the same as it was in legion

    still keeps some flavour of voidform in the fact it ramps up similarly, but the payoff is greater imo and more noticeable playstyle wise since most of the damage during this time is coming from your nukes not your DoTs. this is important because we don't want our DoTs to do broken damage like it did in legion, and our DoTs can do more damage baseline since they will at most gain +50% damage and no haste multiplier.

  17. #97
    Dreadlord RsinRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidfear View Post
    shadow priest's identity has always been a moderate ramp up/DoT class with steady damage, strong against long living adds/council style encounters and a strong execute phase. imo this is core shadow priest and has been this way since wrath basically, and i don't see any reason why we should stray away from this formula personally. since the addition of M+ and it playing a large role in the PvE endgame now, shadow also needs to have some viability in there.

    some quick and imo essential changes that should be made regardless of whether voidform stays as is, is reworked or even removed: twist of fate baseline at current levels, or back to 20%/10sec as a talent. one of these options NEEDS to happen in my mind, either we get our strong execute back or we just get a weaker version baked into the spec but no longer have to choose it

    Mind bomb - just remove shadow crash and add it's damage to mind bomb, technically a nerf to the talent since itll go from a 20sec cd to 30sec, but i think it should be done because shadow crash feels awful to use and shadow needs some AoE/M+ viability baseline, this gives us damage and a stun

    shadowfiend/mindbender - needs to just do more damage to warrant the cd. shadowfiend as a 3min cd is pathetic and always has been, mindbender has also always been meh prior to it granting insanity, but if insanity/voidform goes away (like i want it to) then the damage needs to be looked at. maybe even give it some cleave for m+ purposes

    SW back to baseline obviously, just retarded to move it to a talent

    SW:P should just apply to 1 other enemy within 8 yards. much like sunfire but limited to one enemy. no idea why sunfire is allowed to be a strictly superior version of SW:P

    mind spike reintroduced, functioning basically the same as before it was removed, but should also cleave like 10-20% of it's damage to enemies within 8 yards or something along those lines (maybe baseline, maybe as a talent in some form)

    just simple changes like this would go a long way in improving the spec in it's current state.

    now i would rather remove voidform entirely and revert to mop/wod style of spriest but i know there's zero chance of that happening, so here's my little mini rework of voidform i came up with in 30 minutes because it's fun to think about these things

    Mass hysteria (passive) – every time your VT or SW:P deal damage, you gain 1 stack of mass hysteria, each stack of MH grants you 1% increased damage with VT / SW:P (max 50 stacks, max 2 stacks per sec)
    Voidform (passive)– while you have 50 stacks of mass hysteria, your next mind spike will become empowered and casting mind spike will remove all stacks of mass hysteria and you will enter voidform. Voidform last ~15sec and while in voidform, you gain 10%(?) haste and your Mind blast, mind spike, mind flay, mind sear and shadow word: death abilities are empowered, and you can cast to voidbolt. Mass hysteria stacks cannot be gained during voidform.
    Emp. Mind spike – 30% increased damage, no longer removes DoTs.
    Emp. Mind blast – 30% increased damage, instant and cd reduced by 3 sec
    Emp. Mind flay – 30% increased damage, castable while moving
    Emp. Mind sear – 30% increased damage, 30% increased tick rate
    Emp. SW – 30% increased damage, cooldown reduced by 3 sec
    Voidbolt - basically the same as it was in legion

    still keeps some flavour of voidform in the fact it ramps up similarly, but the payoff is greater imo and more noticeable playstyle wise since most of the damage during this time is coming from your nukes not your DoTs. this is important because we don't want our DoTs to do broken damage like it did in legion, and our DoTs can do more damage baseline since they will at most gain +50% damage and no haste multiplier.
    While I think your idea is cool and all, you are forgetting that the long ramp up is something we are trying to move away from.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidfear View Post
    Mass hysteria (passive) – every time your VT or SW:P deal damage, you gain 1 stack of mass hysteria, each stack of MH grants you 1% increased damage with VT / SW:P (max 50 stacks, max 2 stacks per sec)
    Voidform (passive)– while you have 50 stacks of mass hysteria, your next mind spike will become empowered and casting mind spike will remove all stacks of mass hysteria and you will enter voidform. Voidform last ~15sec and while in voidform, you gain 10%(?) haste and your Mind blast, mind spike, mind flay, mind sear and shadow word: death abilities are empowered, and you can cast to voidbolt. Mass hysteria stacks cannot be gained during voidform.
    Emp. Mind spike – 30% increased damage, no longer removes DoTs.
    Emp. Mind blast – 30% increased damage, instant and cd reduced by 3 sec
    Emp. Mind flay – 30% increased damage, castable while moving
    Emp. Mind sear – 30% increased damage, 30% increased tick rate
    Emp. SW:D – 30% increased damage, cooldown reduced by 3 sec
    Voidbolt - basically the same as it was in legion
    I like this, but I think...
    • Keep Insanity instead of Mass Hysteria, just lower Insanity gains instead (like +2 per Mind Flay tick and +10 per Mind Blast?)
    • Twist of Fate would fit better as mastery: "damage increased up to X%, based on current health of your target"
    • Then SW:D casts grant X sec of max mastery benefit regardless of health (so ToF is a bit more active?)
    • Mind Spike casts consume 50 Insanity, if available, to enter VF for X sec (giving flat haste and changing spells, like you said)
    • But Mind Spike might as well change into Void Bolt? Then Void Eruption could be separated and just cost X Insanity without entering VF
    Last edited by ttylol; 2018-10-03 at 09:04 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    While I think your idea is cool and all, you are forgetting that the long ramp up is something we are trying to move away from.
    yeah i had in mind that with ~25 or so MH stacks you're already doing decent damage since our VT/SW:P could be tuned higher baseline because there would be no % haste multiplier on top of MH like there was in legion, which is what made us so retarded. i have absolutely no intention of going back to ~40 sec long ramp up like in Nighthold/ToS. it's weird that now we're sort of on the other end of things where our DoTs make up like 20-25% of our damage on a ST fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttylol View Post
    I like this, but I think...
    • Keep Insanity instead of Mass Hysteria, just lower Insanity gains instead (like +2 per Mind Flay tick and +10 per Mind Blast?)
    • Twist of Fate would fit better as mastery: "damage increased up to X%, based on current health of your target"
    • Then SW casts grant X sec of max mastery benefit regardless of health (so ToF is a bit more active?)
    • Mind Spike casts consume 50 Insanity, if available, to enter VF for X sec (giving flat haste and changing spells, like you said)
    • But Mind Spike might as well change into Void Bolt? Then Void Eruption could be separated and just cost X Insanity without entering VF
    i personally kind of want to move away from reverse spender style we have now where we're trying to keep up with the drain, so i would rather get rid of insanity (but i know a lot of people really enjoy it) just because i never enjoyed that style of resource in a PvE environment where mechanic handling/downtime really hampers the flow of things. no other class really has that downside that i can think of

    ToF mastery is pretty cool, i would love to double down on us being the execute kings. our strong execute historically has definitely played a big role in why i enjoyed the spec

    sw:d idea is interesting, i personally find (rather found, i've completely dropped spriest in BfA) ToF to be really active currently since having as high ToF uptime as possible is a huge priority for me, much like vf% uptime. though in pure ST fights there's really nothing interactive about it apart from just doing more damage

    void bolt could honestly just be removed in that little rework of mine in all honesty, i don't even think it fits in at all since MB would be instant, i just like the DoT extending part of it lmao

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidfear View Post
    i personally kind of want to move away from reverse spender style we have now where we're trying to keep up with the drain, so i would rather get rid of insanity (but i know a lot of people really enjoy it) just because i never enjoyed that style of resource in a PvE environment where mechanic handling/downtime really hampers the flow of things. no other class really has that downside that i can think of

    ToF mastery is pretty cool, i would love to double down on us being the execute kings. our strong execute historically has definitely played a big role in why i enjoyed the spec

    sw:d idea is interesting, i personally find (rather found, i've completely dropped spriest in BfA) ToF to be really active currently since having as high ToF uptime as possible is a huge priority for me, much like vf% uptime. though in pure ST fights there's really nothing interactive about it apart from just doing more damage

    void bolt could honestly just be removed in that little rework of mine in all honesty, i don't even think it fits in at all since MB would be instant, i just like the DoT extending part of it lmao
    Oh, sorry, I meant VF otherwise same as your idea. Insanity wouldn't drain, just there to allow postponing VF until it caps at 100. Basically an indirect cooldown with 2 charges and Mind Blast/Flay casts reducing it. Yeah SW:D "snapshot" would keep the uptime gameplay, but I think DoT ticks proccing/refreshing the buff is too passive currently. And I wasn't sure what purpose Mind Spike would serve in VF? Seemed it would just be a math competition between it and Flay or Sear?
    Last edited by ttylol; 2018-10-03 at 11:57 PM.

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