[PTR] Alliance and Horde Darkshore questline SPOILERS

[Toho]

Wait, so you basically kill both of them and raise them... then they join you?

What kind of horrible story-writing is that?
Especially the one you just killed would probably lunge out at you as soon she's raised...
Except if there's some kind of lich-king mojo going on; which to be honest has to be for the horde to follow sylvanas.

Sira is actually GLAD you survived AFTER YOU KILL HER.

It blows my fucking mind.

[Tabrotar]

See, you're comparing something that can't be compared. Its apples and oranges. They have seen elune intervene and save people before. They have watched as their goddess saved people from seemingly nowhere and impossible odds. Again, they don't want to be brought into undeath, yet what do they see right as they arise? Their leader, not stopping it. To me, thats a giant f you after that leader abandoned their home to let it burn instead of trying to evacuate people.

And they´re beliving that she will sava anyone? Or that they special enough for her to intervent in their behalf?

Eluna also didn´t saved a fuckton of other NE before so there´s that but i know you will still defend your so called "logic".

[Gurmech]

Which is more powerful? Human potential, or Forsaken free will? I am gonna go Forsaken free will, as even Human potential can't seem to resist it.

[mysticx]

Literally the only tolerable explanation IS mind control, and it's a shame, because it turns Sylvanas into an even bigger Looney Tune.

After everything that has gone before even this patch, was that even possible?

But i agree with the “crappy writing”-thing, this whole “I was really angry in my final seconds, now i’ll do a complete U-turn on everything i ever believed in” bit is just sickeningly bad writing...

[NoiseTank13]

lol this is terrible

unless Sira and Delaryn both simultaneously and telepathically agreed to join the forsaken to backstab sylvanas

which would make this both a SoO 2.0 and a WC3TFT 2.0

delaryn should have remained dead. now we have two npcs that will recieve zero development until their eventual death or irrelevance.

[Wyrt]

This is fucking retarded.

If being undead means you willingly serve the person who raised you then why the fuck did Sylvanas and the Forsaken ever break away from Arthas?

[Friendlyimmolation]

This right here.
If Sylvanas is raising her Forsaken in just such a way that their wants and desires are twisted to a point where they juuuust so happen to line up with Sylvanas' own goals, then that's mind control.

Not all mind control leaves you a shambling zombie or a chanting zealot. Some mind control leaves you completely aware and "independent" but compelled to follow the wishes of their master. Like Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas, for example.

Sir Zeliek was aware, but his body acted completely under the will of the lich king. The only thing he could do was think and talk, a prison in his own body.

[Toho]

Hahaha, this is amazing.
People are so salty over it. Get over it, they are Forsaken now.

Why are you here?

[Whitedragon]

And all of that, somehow, equates to "Also completely forgive the monster that killed you and your loved ones."

SUCH NEGATIVE EMOTIONS.

They have two easy narrative options to make this all go away and they for some reason just refuse to take one of them...

First: they just come out and say shes doing more then just raising them, this surprises no one and falls right in line with her code of ethics.
or
Second: They make a point of showing Assassination attempts are a common occurrence for her by making NPCs actually try and kill her every once in awhile. Don't tell me that's to much NPC work for such a small gain considering the amount of useless NPC's wondering around Dal, Bor, and Daz. This would actually show that the person who is arguably the most decisive person In wow right now has some enemies (A strange thought I know.). This as opposed to her being one of the biggest pricks alive and all of 2 people even going so far as to say maybe.... maybe... she has done something worth bringing up...

[Mixxy]

Sir Zeliek was aware, but his body acted completely under the will of the lich king. The only thing he could do was think and talk, a prison in his own body.

It was an example. There are varying degrees of mind control and they're not all obvious. Hell, even warping someone's emotions so they hate your enemies and love you is technically mind control.

Ever play Bioshock? You should really play Bioshock.

[Jester Joe]

To enjoy and discuss the story.
Sadly the forum is overtaken by people roleplaying as Alliance-members.

And that's coming from someone who plays Night Elf himself.

This has nothing to do with "roleplaying Alliance members" and everything to do with the story just being crummy with this.

There is absolutely no reason why these characters would do a 180 like that.
Especially after the way Delaryn spat in Sylvanas's face.

[Jofe]

Wow, just wow, "I know you just murdered me but I'm gonna fight for you anyway because reasons"

Edit: Also I know it's so we can see more of them, but at times this whole "we barely got away" gets ridiculous.

[tripleh]

Christie Golden and the other writers are bad writers after all the recent events. Buying there books only fuels them to continue further in the same direction.

[mysticx]

Sira lost her faith. Imagine her situation! She relied on the goddess she worshipped for 10,000 some years to protect her from undeath and not abandon her. Well, Elune didn't show up. That's a major blow to someone's entire being. "I worshipped you for my entire life and you still do nothing for me" is enough to go full on atheist. She's raised as a monster, pissed off that her entire life was a lie.

...and then joins up with the "monster" that caused all the misery, death and destruction in the first place, just to stick it to Elune! Yeah...no.

I thought the foundation of any religion (RL and otherwise) is that your deity of choice doesn't literally show up to fix your problems for you, but i can't stem the tide of oh-so-edgy Blizzard writing, so i'll just leave it at that.

[FelPlague]

Sylvanas murdered thousands of my people, but Elune/Tyrande didn't stop her, so now I'm going to help Sylvanas murder the rest of my people.

Jesus Christ.

Almost like either
A. blizzard is horrible at writing
B. or sylvans is mind controlling her undead, something that people simply say "but back 8 years ago they said she didnt!" when fenris isle proved otherwise.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Almost like either
A. blizzard is horrible at writing
B. or sylvans is mind controlling her undead, something that people simply say "but back 8 years ago they said she didnt!" when fenris isle proved otherwise.

Christ how is this still difficult for you? There is no excuse for this you must be willfully pretending not to understand at this point. The ask cdev response was because of those quests, they do not disprove the canon laid down. Canon doesn’t disappear until it is retconned and currently it has not been.

Fenris isle is only proof to the un-informed and those who try to make canon and their own thoughts one in the same.

You are the only poster I have seen still lying about that, or in the best case scenario, still confused and unwittingly trying to spread that confusion.

[Mixxy]

Christ how is this still difficult for you? There is no excuse for this you must be willfully pretending not to understand at this point. The ask cdev response was because of those quests, they do not disprove the canon laid down. Canon doesn’t disappear until it is retconned and currently it has not been.

Fenris isle is only proof to the un-informed and those who try to make canon and their own thoughts one in the same.

You are the only poster I have seen still lying about that, or in the best case scenario, still confused and unwittingly trying to spread that confusion.

I mean... you kill an Alliance soldier, rez him, and literally the first thing he does is salute, yell "FOR THE DARK LADY!", and then run off to join the Forsaken.

That's a pretty clear, direct contradiction to their statement regarding the Forsaken not being controlled at all.

[Deleted]

What throws me off in this, after reading the thing again on WoWhead, is the wisp. So... a wisp is following the player around and you take it to Nathanos and after no one else would tell you anything about what happens he conveniently gets the information from the wisp... that just so happened to follow you around?
And it's after Tyrande already finished the ritual, if I got that right, because the others are already the 'Army of the Night Warrior' or something? And then Tyrande 'In'a shul da Elune' Whisperwind tells her sisters to fight the shadow in their hearts?
Hm.
Something's not quite right.

[Dybia]

This is like is someone who was killed in 9/11 was raised into undeath by Al Qaeda and decided to join up because 9/11 made them lose faith in god.

[ls-]

I mean... you kill an Alliance soldier, rez him, and literally the first thing he does is salute, yell "FOR THE DARK LADY!", and then run off to join the Forsaken.

That's a pretty clear, direct contradiction to their statement regarding the Forsaken not being controlled at all.

TBF, I'm almost certain that it's this way because RP where a freshly risen forsaken struggles w/ accepting the undeath, e.g., Deathknell Voss sequence, Cpt Stone, Derek, etc is too cumbersome to implement and in general is uninteresting to your average player who wants to get shit done fast and in a flashy manner, so why even bother.

I mean, it's not unique to this aspect of the Forsaken, Blizz tend to ignore such supposedly crucial RP/lore details in many scenarios in the game, yet mention them regularly in other media, comics, books, and whatnot.