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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    It always matters. Sure, you can get away with a worse spec by being a better player... or you could play the better spec and be more useful to the team. And if you're playing (to use an extreme example) Survival in HFC and are a good player who can top DPS in your raid because you're simply so much better than the rest of the team, you could also play Marksmanship(and be slightly worse at it) and do way more DPS.
    This idea that it only matters at the top end is extremely silly.
    Progression in normal and heroic is decided by everyone paying attention for 10 minutes in a row and playing mechanics right. It doesn't matter if everyone plays the optimal spec/class. Yeah, you could have a little bit more damage by switching specs but 99.9 (repeating of course) % of wipes isn't that last 1k dps missing but failing mechanics.

  2. #42
    Warchief Notshauna's Avatar
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    Of course you can complete almost anything with any class but when you have a class that does ~20% of the damage of the top tier classes it means you need to be appreciably better than average to not be a detriment. It's not that they can't work it's just that it's just that there are better choices, and that means why should a PuG accept a feral druid when they can accept one of the other 30 DPS players who want to join.

  3. #43
    The problem is the breakdown of social play and the core unit of an MMO: The Guild.

    It's interesting.The same thing is being mirrored in real life. Social safety nets that existed for thousands of years are breaking down. The family is no longer strong. Communities have never been weaker. Social media and globalization and the Internet has shrunk the world and made communities seemingly superfluous... but people need this social interaction and engagement and support.

    Likewise, the Guild is the most important thing for an MMO's success. But year after year, Blizzard has implemented more and more changes that undermine this social linchpin. Most players don't need guild's too "succeed" -- they can insta-queue for all content with a bunch of strangers (not to mention when the majority of players are going to take the path of least resistance if there is one).

    Here's the problem. Once a player doesn't need a guild, the idea of a guild itself changes as well. The entire social structure is collapsing. Players are seen as a commodity. There is no friendship, no personal or emotional investment. If I can choose Stranger A or Stranger B -- and I don't have that familial/communal bond -- then I take whichever one benefits me most... which makes it perfectly legit to take folks who do 2% more damage.

    Blizzard needs to take steps to make Guilds strong again. I think they should do whatever they can to incentivize strong guilds and loyal guild members.

    Just my $0.02.

  4. #44
    Tell them to use the trial options at creation too. It gives a better impression. Not best, but better.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by aGit View Post
    unless your roster is exactly 20, ofc there is a reason to. You'll bring the best comb for the encounter, unfortunately there are currently quite a few specs who are outclassed by others by a hefty margin. If you can bring only a few melees to a fight due to how the mechanics of the encounter play out, why on earth would you make one of those melees enhancement, if you have a choice? Assuming player skill is not an issue.
    You're talking about something completely different. You are talking about meeting some fundamental encounter requirement (the encounter absolutely REQUIRES class x) which BTW the crap design but anyway I'm talking about just benching a spec because its weaker in general.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  6. #46
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    Numbers don't lie. Sims are not false and no matter your biased and firsthand accounts the state of classes is not disproved by your not world-tier guild's heroic Taloc parses. What does not seem a problem now will become one later, be it from tuning, scaling or simple RNG screwing you over with feast/famine preformance
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  7. #47
    I'm not a pro shadow priest by any means but at 369 ilvl with disc azerite traits to get outdpsed by the blood tank and not reach 10k single target is pretty bad...

  8. #48
    We are a casual guild who raids normal and heroic and we have an ele shammie, and two shadow priests. We've always had the motto "play what you like" we always make it work and down bosses. As others have said the only time benching should be done is if you were doing cutting edge content.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    When the difference between bottom of the barrel and top tier is 10, 15, 20% damage, that is a serious problem. And that is how it currently is.

    And yes, doing 20% less than the top performers is trash.

    Then you look beyond the damage numbers. Some specs have aoe rotations that they have to manage/track like multidotting. Takes effort and then some mage/dh/rogue comes in and pushes 2 buttons and doubles your aoe dps. That isn't a fun experience either.
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  10. #50
    If you aren't at at least Fetid Devourer mythic then comp is not an issue for guilds and most guilds with any sense will not care about the class unless they have to many of them. Guilds who are progressing at that level have no interest in new players who don't have a lot of logs proving their ability. Class balance changes every few months. The best spec today could be nerfed tomorrow to been one of the weakest. Going flavor of the month is fine for venerate players will multiple max level classes but isn't viable for brand new players

  11. #51
    Deleted
    "Pick any class you like!"

    *Picks Shaman*

    "NO NOT THAT CLASS!"

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Keesasha View Post
    New players can play whatever they want.
    Also, it's funny how most people are complaining about the spec they play Bookin is not that bad, on heroic it's just below the middle of the pack.
    But yeah ele and enh are both on the bottom 5 so yeah they can complain. Others like locks and mages can't really, since they still have other specs that are better. Remember, you're playing a class, not a spec.
    I play a spec. One only

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillboy View Post
    I play a spec. One only
    If you only play one spec, it means you're not in a really serious mythic guild, so no need to worry that much about it. It sucks to be near the bottom of the meters even if you play well, but what can you do.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    When the difference between bottom of the barrel and top tier is 10, 15, 20% damage, that is a serious problem. And that is how it currently is.

    And yes, doing 20% less than the top performers is trash.

    Then you look beyond the damage numbers. Some specs have aoe rotations that they have to manage/track like multidotting. Takes effort and then some mage/dh/rogue comes in and pushes 2 buttons and doubles your aoe dps. That isn't a fun experience either.
    This is nothing new though. Been that way since vanilla. There are always "trash" specs that nobody wants to bring to a progression raid. There are always "top performers" that excel. There have always been "easy specs that excel over complex specs". Classes/secs have always been benched since the beginning of this game. It usually changes every x-pac, and even throughout an x-pac.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by fishoa View Post
    I'm sure Elemental Shamans and Shadow Priests all over the world are grateful because that less than 1% buff in overall DPS is obviously a game changer.
    Shadow priest in my guild rocks the meters. She can keep up with my dh on trash when I'm not taking barrage. She keeps up with me single target as well on a lot of fights. But boss cleave she starts to fall behind because my rotation had inherent cleave
    []http://sig.lanjelin.com/img/tanro.png[/]

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Shadow priest in my guild rocks the meters.
    So you've got a guild full of abolute, Donald-tier shitters. That doesn't mean your SP is magically great or that there's nothing wrong with the spec.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by munchimunchi View Post
    We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most and stay with it even if the changes were bad , but they classes were picked before for raids and dungeons regardless of not being flavor of month, but now with BFA people refuse to pick shaman, feral druids to their runs, the class that you like and played since vanilla is benched the half of the expansion, the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

    Blizzard should as temporary solution give these classes the DERP buff most u of u call it, the one u get when u die from raid bosses after few minutes, this buff is cast on the lower tier and unwanted classes till they are wanted again.

    Blizzard can add this DERP npc near dungeon and raids and lower tier dps, heals, tanks get buffs from them before they enter the raid or dungeon
    No, you clearly don't understand the statement. The idea behind "pick the class you like" is to pick the one you like. Not to be strong. It is to get rid of this mentality that you have to be as strong or stronger than the others. "Pick the class you like" is the one with the abilities you like even if everyone does more damage than you with the same gear. I dont know why people seem to care so much about doing more damage, they should ban damage meters from the game.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jahrastafari View Post
    So you've got a guild full of abolute, Donald-tier shitters. That doesn't mean your SP is magically great or that there's nothing wrong with the spec.
    I can't comment on the greatness of the spec. But no we don't really have a guild full of Donalds. Our spriest just pushes herself to do what she can in spite of her spec.

    Plus being as we aren't a mythic guild we aren't telling people the have to play their best spec. One hunter is mm even tho his dps is about 10% better with bm. Our warrior is arms even tho her sims are higher as fury. But yeah we all sim and have all improved raid over raid. The priest just puts in more work to have more gear and eek out every point she can, meanwhile I'm over here facerolling havoc and doing similar damage with a 10 pick deficit.
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  19. #59
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    370+ Prot Warrior here. Still getting laughed out of every (pug) middle-tier M+. If it wasn't for my guild, I would have never ran anything over a +4 key. So no, the idea that the class balance only affects the .01% of people who go for world firsts is ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by munchimunchi View Post
    We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most and stay with it even if the changes were bad , but they classes were picked before for raids and dungeons regardless of not being flavor of month, but now with BFA people refuse to pick shaman, feral druids to their runs, the class that you like and played since vanilla is benched the half of the expansion, the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

    Blizzard should as temporary solution give these classes the DERP buff most u of u call it, the one u get when u die from raid bosses after few minutes, this buff is cast on the lower tier and unwanted classes till they are wanted again.

    Blizzard can add this DERP npc near dungeon and raids and lower tier dps, heals, tanks get buffs from them before they enter the raid or dungeon
    You should try out shadow priest. Instant bench for all dungeon content since mop CMs. It's fun to not be viable in a core part of the game for about half of its lifespan.

    It's also a nice class for high effort, low reward gameplay.

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